Tomcats (a2a locks) op and fun-breaking

Tomcats are a crutch that are more likely to get you killed faster than anything else. If you can keep a tomcat lock, you can use your nose gun. It's just a shame there's no way to simulate air combat without at least another friend who's good at it to duel with. Thus you're stuck smacking your head against sqauds of cert full elites trying to find some kind of feedback in your insta-gib 3 vs you death. I used to be alright with the Vortek even before the crosshair misalignment was resolved, but now even the average mossie player seems to be able to lead me at 100m what ever strafe manouvre i pull and the vortek in all its superior bullet velocity glory can't connect more than 10% of its rounds per clip.

How about this? Nerf a2a and buff g2a. If you guys want your precious airgame, do it on a hex that isn't being contested. Problem solved.

ok honestly i see this excuse too much, noobs dont have the certs to spend on these things, and if they do buy them with real money even a decent pilot can knock them out of the sky with just a nosegun.

I'm a ps4 peasent, and currently in the closed beta im one of the best pilots, i find that bad pilots get these things hit me all of 1 time then i blow them away. In the beta we have no countermeasures at the moment, so just to prove how stupid these things are, a guy aiming with a joystick is able to DESTROY lock on noobs with just a nosegun.

Now what happens when a noob pilots goes against a decent or good pilot with lock ons on? They get beat so bad they hardly can tell what the eff they just got killed by.

So what exactly do bad pilots gain from using these things? nothing, they will never learn because they will just rely on the lock ons so they will stay a bad pilot for a very long time, so long as they rely on the lock ons.

a new pilots best bet is coyotes, but even these take too little skill for their power. the nerf i suggest for coyotes is a velocity nerf making it take much more skill to land these things as the leading of shots will be required (you also need to do this with nose guns) which will help (not very greatly but will help) the noob pilot gain the skill necessary to become better.

People always complain about the "air bushido" and "1337 pilotz" but in all seriousness bad pilots just don't want to take the time to get good so they piss and moan about people with skill.

Why is the air game the only thing in ps2 where someone can purchase a weapon and be total leaps and bounds above their opponents due to the weapons power? Tanks may have an ap shell increasing damage output by what 20% compared to the stock cannon and infantry have massive trade off to even the scales. coyotes and tomcats need a nerf.

A2A lock-ons don't make it easier to people to get into the air game. They just make the air game less enjoyable for everyone.

Crazy idea, nerf ESF A2G but also nerf A2A missiles, and then make ESFs cost less. Everyone wins except A2G farmers.

I have to disagree with this thread. I am not an ace pilot, but I'm also not a new player.. But when I get in the air with an ESF, it's usually to hunt down other ESFs or libs and I use tomcats. This is what I find enjoyable. They are clearly not OP because there are many counters:

1- the range is shorter than the g2a lockons
2- you have to maintain the lock, which can be broken by skilled pilots doing erratic maneuvers.
3- lock can also be broken by diving behind trees, towers, around mountains.
4- flares
5- damage suppression will allow you to take 3 rockets
6- a you can kill an ESF faster and at longer range with a nose gun if you can aim.

This game is set in the future ppl. Lockons are a thing of the present, and certainly should exist in the future.. If you feel like your precious air game is being ruined, maybe go play a ww1 or ww2 flight sim and go nuts with you machine guns.

How are A2G farmers affected by A2A missiles? 0.o

If anything, they are the ones happy because no "noob" will be there to use lock ons on them.

As I've said, the value of the lock-on lies on its excellent stacking over skill-oriented weapons like noseguns. They're meh or downright garbage as a 1v1 duel weapon, but powerful when you organize a gank squad to use them en masse.

True, the users don't gain 1337 d0gf1gh+ skillz when they're Tomcat ganking, and outside collecting Skyknight tears is perhaps not all that entertaining, but getting the job done instead of being shot down a million times is a gain.

You confuse me. Right after denoucing the Tomcat as useless a piece of crap that you destroy with a nosegun, you're suddenly claiming them as OP weapons that need a nerf.

Seriously, make up your mind on whether the Tomcat is garbage or OP.

i'm saying it's useless because it doesnt help noobs and helps good pilots which is the exact opposite of what it is intended to do. sorry i didnt make that too clear my bad. it's extremely op in the hands of a good or even mediocre pilot, noobs gain nothing but a few certs they would have had more success spending on other things.

People trying to learn to fly are happy because ESFs are cheap.

Experienced pilots are happy because A2Am are no longer ruining air combat.

Ground players are happy because ESF A2G isn't as strong, and ESFs are fighting other aircraft instead.

A2G farmers are mad because their tools are nerfed and there are more aircraft in the sky shooting at them.

1-cool
2-if you can aim at all you can hold the lock seeing as it requires much less precision than nose guns
3-not if the lock on guy is at high altitude also certain maps dont contain much cover
4-long recharge, much longer than the reload of the missle
5-you need 3 anyway gg
6-nope, in theory maybe, but in practice two equally skilled pilots going against each other within lock on range the guy with just the nose gun will lose every single time if the other has tomcats.

Funnily enough:
a skilled pilot might actually be able to do just that.
You didn't mention which aircraft you'd be using so.. galaxy?

(Sorry, .. it's just.. how my mind works)

yes, anything that can hurt a liberator should obviously be nerfed

your threads are laughable dude

With how much abuse tells I've gotten from other pilots, I love to run A2A lock ons just to spite those eliteist pricks. Its gotten so bad that I'm just used to getting hate tells from people and I just put them on ignore. That's regardless of what weapon I'm using or if I win or lose a fight. The game doesn't cater to you I'm afraid. Learn to adapt and learn that making a code that everyone else should adhere to makes you a *****. You wont force me to play the game your way and a "haha you suck noob" or worse (Usually much much worse) wont convince me either. I play to win. As should you. I realise I'm generalising and its not completely directed at the OP. I'm mostly pointing the finger at those BR100 pilots that I often get abuse from for using lock ons.

i actualy started using the Tomcats not long ago and i have to say , on my side atleast it is very amusing to look and kill stragglers around hot spots , also shoot people in the butt who run away from ye , im actualy dissapointed with lack of hate tells , also i found breaking lock isnt instantaneous and you can still recover it if you change your position / aim fast enough .

Then I wish I could just forward them to you haha . I play the game to have fun and for me getting abused by other players isn't part of it.

But how does A2A nerf affect A2G "farmers"? If anything, they'd be happier because there are LESS aircraft with missiles owning them.

And speaking from an infantry POV, things would be more boring if getting into cover to avoid air becomes irrelevant.

Experienced pilots happier? Yeah, now they can farm "n00b pilots" with ease.

Coyotes as secondary: o-kay.

However, never in a million years would I expect DBG to simply remove the tomcats.
In terms of symmetry,
for A2G you have lolpods and hornets;
for A2A you have coyotes and tomcats.

Before Higby left, on reddit he made at least one post about changing them into "anti-lib torpedoes": high damage, low speed, 'easy to avoid'.
The issue, which I posted at the time as well is that in fact a lib is reasonably agile.
If an ESF can "easily" dodge it, it is hard to design so that it would be impossible for the lib.
It would then also be a "rock-paper-scissor" thing; this being paper vs the lib rock.

So: I'm not in favor of the 'torpedo' approach.
Regarding the "gank squad":
a "crowd control" effect is an option; non-stacking.
Suppose the tomcat deals half the damage, but reduces the ESF speed, turning, acceleration & thrust by 30%.
Now, it doesn't really matter if you get hit by 3 of em (about half health.. but you'd be at 30% nerfed, regardless if it was 1, 2 or 3 lock-on hits you took).

Suppose it "starts" with only giving a 30% reduction to afterburner, max speed and hover thrust.
Current cert lines are faster reload, longer range & faster lock-on.
New lines:
-10-20-30% 'acceleration' nerf.
-10-20-30% pitch nerf. (& roll?)
-Longer duration of 'nerf effect'.

Any lockon, where damage is the primary reason to use it, will feel powerfull if you get enough people to use it.

Of course, in 3 vs 1, this will feel plenty powerfull if people lockon one-after-another. (perma-nerfed). But it is a 3 vs 1, and you don't die instantly from the lockons. In addition 'launch in sequence' would require at least some co-ordination.
It could also disable stuff: disable airframe, defense slot, utility slot and/or wingmounted weapons for say.. 20 seconds?


Those are just spouting potential ideas; as a non-pilot. Does a "concussion grenade", but as an A2A missile, sound like a better idea than current tomcats, y/n?
Again: DBG will not remove tomcats-> Suggest a different role for them.
"nerf the damage!" is not different role. It simply means instead of a 3 men ganksquad, you'd need 5 for example. It also reduces the worth vs liberators & galaxies.

I challenge you to explain to me without using the realism arguement (because if you havent noticed you look insane when you use that arguement) why a2a locks are balanced because last time i checked they takes very little skill, and do very high damage. Now go ahead and say "oh but it lets noob fly gud" no it doesnt, they just stay noobs because they only learn to pick off other bad pilots with lock ons.

Also why is air the only meta where you can just buy one weapon (coyotes/lockons) and have a total advantage over another player?
air game is the only game where you can just not put practice into the game and come out doing well because you bought something cheap.PEOPLE THAT COMPLAIN ABOUT SKYKNIGHTS/AIR BUSHIDO NEED TO TRY TO BECOME GOOD NOT JUST USE LOCK ONS AND CALL GOOD PILOTS ELITIST. everyone who is good in the air got their *** beat alot before they could hang up there, just like infantry. Good pilots weren't just born good.

We can get rid of all the lockons when you remove any A2G capability of ESFs.

would you settle for nose guns only on esfs? it's pretty hard to make your statement happen as is.