To all the VS who don't think ZOE Is overpowered

Discussion in 'MAX' started by Ned, Oct 25, 2013.

  1. Konfuzfanten

    Its not only the movement speed while firing thats a problem. The fact that you can not run away from a ZOE MAX, is a huge problem. A MAX shouldnt be able to out run your regular infantry man.

    The Charge ability: sure, np. Short burst of speed, long CD.
    ZOE: not so much.
  2. ohmikkie


    I agree with you. Problem is the other MAXs special abilities do not compare in benefits They are more situational than ZOE. They should be improved/enhanced or whatever but not at the cost of nerfing ZOE to the point of uselessness.
  3. HellionX



    I could care less. I barley use maxes at all. Unlike most here I'm not afraid to post my real toon. What I am saying is I can't believe after 2 real nerfs people are still crying about this.
  4. SnowBro

    Sorry, your logic fails. People can be, and have been convicted on circumstantial evidence alone, as confirmed by the U.S. Supreme Court. If the pieces of circumstantial evidence points towards a common conclusion, then it only makes sense to form a confident opinion on that evidence. People can in fact use common sense in such scenarios. Anyway, I've never heard anything reasonably ordaining that the balancing of video games needs to be held up to the same rigorous standard of proof as convicting somebody of a crime and imposing life-changing punishments.
  5. Purg


    If you run KA5, only one NC AI MAX weapon can kill you before having to reload and they have to have extended mags as well. Hence 'Depending on what armor you have equipped...'
  6. Messaiga

    The reason Vehicles cannot be rezzed but Max's can is because vehicles are significantly more durable and have better mobility. Max's have less mobility than infantry and don't really tank that much damage. Heck, they cost more than a Lightning yet a Lightning has better weapons, completely resistant to small arms, and has more mobility. Max's are really only good for guarding doors or in the case of mass numbers or a couple ZOE's, rushing to a point. If they could not be rezzed they sure as hell should have shorter cooldowns and cost less resources (125 infantry resources minimun, 225 maximum).
  7. Schwak

    So what you think that the 100 VS that haven't bought level 1 ZOE yet made the gap? I've run into stock ZOE MAXs (1 quesar/1 burster) and let me tell you those still destroy. VS having a 60,000 kill lead on the NC and a 75,000 lead on the TR is inexcusable. I remember when nobody pulled VS MAXs because they said they sucked and I'm sure you do too if you were playing pre-ZOE.
  8. Schwak

    Kills can mean anything as far as weapon to weapon. My bet is that the default guns on MBTs have more vehicle kills then AP cannons, does this actually make them better? Of course not, it just shows that people don't want to spend the certs. Cycler having most kills could be for the same reason. Why buy two new guns when you already have one decent one and all you need to do is buy the other?

    A better statistic to go buy would be KPM/accuracy.
  9. ohmikkie


    Rubbish. This is a LTP scenario. NC max just has to rush to point blank range to take me out in next to no time. If I ever used +3ZOE I'd be taken out even quicker. The problem with NC maxes is the lack of proper guns.
  10. Posse

    Actually, if you turn off ZOE and have KA5 maxed, I think they can't kill you even if they land all shots, at least it never happened to me (and if you don't turn off ZOE in that situation then you're doing it wrong).
  11. Xasapis

    Top tier kinetic armor is 16.000 effective health.
    Top tier kinetic armor with zoe active is 11.200 effective health.

    All you need to do is calculate damage produced to see if you can overcome it.
  12. Posse

    You would need 11x2 rounds of a 130 damage weapon, so the Grinders with extended mags would be the only ones able to deal 16k damage without reloading (or that's what I think, I never remember if they have 10 or 12, they could do it with 10 if they land some headshots though).
  13. Purg


    So you're not running KA5 - people should read and try to understand what they're replying to. If every pellet hits while I'm standing on your disco shoes if I have extended Scattercannons, Mattocks or Hacksaws equipped and you have full health, I cannot kill you without having to reload. If I have Grinders (which I don't have) then I can kill you.
  14. ohmikkie


    If you were talking about solo v solo I would agree with your point but very rare that happens. If a non VS max haf KA5 it would take more than one magazine of blueshift to kill.

    Are you saying you MAX up without support? Because If I went solo ZOE or no ZOE or KA5 or none I know I would not last long. As I said earlier NC maxes need a better alternative to the shotguns (or improve slug rounds + increase the magazine) or have a better unique ability like a resist-shield to complement the shotties close quarters feature.
  15. ohmikkie


    True but I also think that ZOE should affect the COF more (if does already). The problem with all these arguments is that bring up all these figure does not really matter when LAG and FPS has a higher effect on player performance anyway.
  16. CptFirelord

    ZOE has no effect on your CoF.
  17. ViXeN


    Yeah, but generally people are only convicted if the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming. Most juries won't convict you otherwise. There have been countless high profile examples during the past decade. I'm betting the conviction rate for cases depending on circumstantial evidence is pretty low. But anyway, we're getting off topic. My point is that you have VERY questionable evidence to say that ZOE is OP. You have personal opinions and some stats that don't prove or really even support your argument that ZOE is responsible for the difference. But here you are acting like its a proven fact that ZOE is OP. Its not. ;) Your opinion isn't a freaking fact. And even if the majority of people agreed, its STILL not a fact. The majority of people have believed a lot of really stupid things in the past that were proven to be wrong. :rolleyes: So yeah, you guys need to stop pretending that your arguments are based on logic. If they were, you wouldn't be jumping to conclusions based on questionable evidence. LOL


    First of all, like most things in this game, ZOE 1 isn't that good and it doesn't become extremely powerful until ZOE 5. And I'm betting the majority of people under 40-50 don't even have ZOE 5 because there are so many other things they should be buying first. So yeah, don't act like every is running around with full ZOE 5 MAXes. Secondly, that's a pretty big lead but how does it PROVE that the problem is with ZOE? Several of us have pointed out that there isn't just one possible explanation for the difference but you don't seem to understand that.

    Yeah, pre-ZOE VS MAX was pretty bad and we couldn't compete at all with the other MAXes. I also said that ZOE 5 is very powerful and helps the VS MAX perform really well against infantry and decent against other MAXes. Like I said before, NC (scat or hacksaw) and TR (fracture) MAXes can easily kill a ZOE. And there are several other ways to kill one easily if you go read the guide someone posted a few days ago. The main problem, in my opinion, isn't that the ZOE is OP. The real problem is that the other two MAX abilities just aren't very good. They don't really help the MAXes get kills (Aegis) or stay alive (Lockdown) longer. That is why I think you see the difference. And even when they nerf ZOE, the other two abilities are still going to suck and I think there will still be a higher number of kills for the VS MAX unless they make ZOE completely useless.


    That is my point. According to the stats and the flawed logic these guys on here have been using, the Quasar is clearly better than the BlueShift and Nebula. But as you just pointed out there may be another reason why that difference exists. And i'm saying the same thing applies to the ZOE. Show me how it proves that ZOE is the reason why the difference in total number of kills between the VS and other MAXes exists. You can't because the stats don't show you what any of the causes could be... Duh.

    So first it was about the total number of kills and when I showed the flaw in that argument, its suddenly changed to KPM and accuracy? Let me know when you guys finally settle on an argument then I'll respond. I'm not interested in watching you guys change it every time someone points out that your current one is questionable. o_O
  18. Posse

    KPM would be a good metric, together with KDR, accuracy is worthless (and it's not like ZOE would change the accuracy of the weapons anyway)
  19. Flapatax

    Wait, are there enough bad delusional people in this thread arguing ZOE is balanced to have honestly kept this thread going for 18 pages? Some of you have to be trolls.
  20. Schwak

    Something I would like to see is maybe adding a half movement speed to the TR MAX Anchor(maybe a slight defensive buff as well?) and single arm shooting to the NC aegis(reduce shield cover by 15-20% on the firing side and remove reloading while shielded).