Do you not see anything wrong with proposing a 167/700 HA primary with 90 round magazine? That's a cyclone on steroids. Cyclone doesn't need help being OP. You don't have to be a "tech and spec guy" to figure that out. It's hard to take a suggestion seriously when you come up with something that ridiculous to start a discussion. That said, TMG is a good weapon. It's just not on par with the NC 167/600 guns...which can be said about a LOT of weapons.
Never mind bro, you have your'e views, i have mine. And i haven't looked at other weapons for comparison, TR is all i play.
You guys keep stating your 577 rpm 167 damage weps are UP, but they're practically clones of NC's 577 rpm 167 dam weps. But, I mean, if you want to buff the Gauss SAW S... One of my favorite weapons, too. The TMG-50 and the SAW S perform VERY VERY similarly, the TMG just doesn't have SPA/Extended mags, and rightly so, if NC doesn't get a bullet hose with the efficiency of TR/VS bullet hoses. Even so, the TMG is still practically a clone of the SAW S, it just lacks some versatility attachments. Oh, and the EM1, our 143 damage weapon, is absolutely terrible. So if you get a "serious buff" to your TMG that makes it better than the SAW S, then I want my EM1 to be better than your CARV S.
The NC shoudn't have a "bullet hose" like the TR, that's our thing. And it should have extended mags ot ANYTHING that would make it more TR.
You can't just have your cake and also eat it. If you want what you perceive as TR traits on the TMG, then you have to let go of NC traits such as high damage per bullet and low horizontal recoil...And if you do that, you just end up with what you already have in your arsenal. You basically don't care about balance, you just want an awesome gun.
I don't have to let go of it because the TMG was designed so we can have something of higher dmg output, just like the Cougar. But it should be buffed IN ANY POSSIBLE WAY, and i stated that in my post, idk exactly which way, all i did was add suggestions.
The Cougar fires at 550 RPM, even lower than the TMG. My point still stands. If you want high ROF, you have give up the 167 damage tier. The only 167dmg LMGS with higher ROF are the Anchor and GD-22S (both 600) but they also have 50 round magazines and there you are, asking for larger magazine to "compensate" for the higher ROF? Your problem is that you want a bullet hose, because that's TR, but you also want high accuracy and a high damage tier, because that's good for long range and you don't see the conflict there? I just don't get your line of thought there, unless you really look at TR weapons in a vacuum, detached from the rest of the game, at which point this discussion becomes meaningless...
TMG50 changes? KNow what you do? 615RpM 167@8m-143@55m, Nerf horizontal jiggle some and nerf it's bullet spread a bit. Vs NC's EM6 600RpM 167@15m-143@85m That way, sure, the TMG gets its harder hitting bullet and maybe some better RoF, but it doesnt out do or even compare to the damage output of teh NC's EM6, as the damage degradation on the TMG is alot faster, and the TMG is fair bit less accurate. TMG gets better V Recoil while the NC gets teh better H recoil.
TR arent ranged faction. The TMG is the harder hitting LMG.....The T16 is the more accurate longer ranged LMG, lowish damage, but accurate at distance. Meanwhile, NC are not really CQC faction...and you cant say..."but shotguns", cuz every faction gets shotguns... And as a general rule, the TR will beat the NC in a closer range brawl, while the NC tend to do best at mid range. The faction diversity and roles have been melded so much you cant really tell who is who and what trait goes where..... But TMG is a harder hitting answer for the TR, not a longer ranged option. Its just made as such to be kinda longish ranged as well. T16? Buff it to be 143@15m-125@75m, give it SPA and a base velocity of 675m/s, low horiztonal jiggle, slow bullet spread, high accuracy, low V Recoil. That way the TR get a ranged LMG that is fairly accurate, but it wont beat out the NC at range, as a general rule. But hte Gauss SAW, make it 200@10m-167@85m...back the way it was. Rebuff it's Bullet spread to where you can pump out a good burst at range, provided you can compensate for the recoil. But everyone wants every faction to have a gun that is 698RpM 167@10m-143@85m 0.185 Jiggle left and right 0.4 V Recoil great bloom, great strafe acc, great recoil recovery....... but naw, we dont need that....we need each faction to be and feel unique.
Yeah, and all that TR themed NC ******** needs to ****. Ive always said that.... As for other TR weapons that dont TR very well...lets just start with how I would love to change them TR MAX Suit Miniguns Improve CoF spread by probably 20%, increase RoF from 300-400RpM clear up to 652RpM, you get 2 of them, the damage is good lol. Keep damage the same. Then, mag caps on all TR Max miniguns start with 150 rounds per gun, Mutilator would start with half its ammo loaded already, other half as a backup reload. And it gets what? Like 700 rounds or something....so 350 rounds in the box, 350 on backup. Across the Board I would put Ammo bins in a different slot entirely, that way you actually wanna use them, right now they are utterly useless. NC MAX shotguns would also see a Mag cap increase to like 12 and 18 rounds, then exmags up to 24 and 32 rounds. Keeping spread the same and removing slugs, buffing shot spread by maybe 20%. With slugs NC MAX have terrible accuracy, without slugs they cant hit a tower from the inside...... GD7, Blitz, and any 143NC weapon would cease to exist. It would be 600-652RpM, 167dmg guns only lol. some below that, but none above it. Want dakka? Join TR, want BOOM dead? Join NC. It would really be that simple......there would be Definite, easily Identifiable Faction traits and feel. The TR MCG, maybe buff it's CoF bloom just a tad bit more, and keep it the same. Its mostly useless as it is, its accuracy is still far to poor to really make it much more then a shoot in the direction of the enemy weapon....it gets beat out beyond like 15m by almost everything...guess thats balance? lol TMG50, yeah, I would make it a harder hitting option for the TR with accuracy and handling, but better V Recoil, similar to maybe a stock EM6, but not that amazingly accurate that it could in any way be confused for a NC weapon. T16 would be the TR's Long range LMG, lower damage and far easier control over the NC weapons, but lower per shot damage. T16 would be able to mount 3.4x and be almost pin point accurate. It would get Compensators, Adv Grip, buffed H Jiggle, better range damage degradation. TR T16 would win on accuracy at range, and bullets on target, not damage per shot. A Gauss SAW would win on Damage per shot and not accuracy and control.... Neither weapon would be able to just put pipper on target and hold button, bursting would still be required, but T16 would be very easy to handle at range....far better then what it is now. Gauss SAW, it doesnt need a buff, it just needs to be put back the way it was.....it used to spew out like 12-15 round bursts before blooming much, now it gets to 8 and its blooming quite a bit. Sure, put the GD22S as the NC Starter =D BUt heck, its a nice weapon anyway. NC players are just to stupid to use it.... NS would poof, gone...those who have them would keep em but no more...lol..... TR Speed and RoF would be thier thing. The tanks wouldnt be even close on speed or agility, Prowler would go to a single barrel tank with a 3 round auto loader, 2.5s reload between shots, 6s reload in the drum. Bit lower per shot damage, it would be similar to a very fast firing Lightning cannons. Vanguard would get its current gun, not much would change, except reload would go to like 6s. Prowler would circle jerk the Vanguard, Vanguard would shrug off the Prowler attacks. Prowler wouldnt tank Vanguard shots well. Vanguard could tank Prowlers fairly well. Rear armor on the Vanguard would be weakest, but sides would be maybe half a shot weaker then the front Vanguards would lose it's speed and agility buffs in the Cert tree, Prowler would lose its armor/defensive buffs in the cert tree. Vanguards would gain Anti Missile bubbles, stopping incoming lock ons for a duration, Heavier Mine guards, allowing them to tank atleast 2 mines, the 3rd would kill it hardcore. Vanguard shield would become a 30% HA Resist shield, or, w/e % would allow it to frontally tank like 2-3 more shots. Vanguard would be the longer range sniping tank, highest velocity of all the tanks, absolutely abysmal overall speed and agility....ever played WoT with a Stock heavy tank? lol....not quite that bad....but more along those lines. Prowler would get speed boost, increasing its acceleration by 10, 15, 20% for each upgrade lvl. Prowler would get all the current agility frames and crap. Prowler would get base agility and mobility buffs. Prowler would also see reload upgrades of either In Drum reload or empty drum reloads....maybe an ammo drum upgrade allowing them to get 1 more shot in the mag, for .25s slower in drum reload speed, and .25s empty drum reload speed up to a max of like 2 more shots(5max). Increasing thier front loaded damage, but slowing their RoF, or they stay stock and take the 3 rounds/6s......be the drivers choice....more shots or better overall reload... TR would lose the BASRs, but all thier weapons would get a built in suppression system, allowing them to do thier close in wetwork without showing on the minimap. TR Snipers would fire about 3-1 on BASR in RoF. Their snipers would get easy to handle recoil, moderate-low overall velocity, damage something like the scout rifles....400@25m-325@175m Headshots doubling. Not trying to turn TR Infils into long range sniper Machine gunners, but giving them thier RoF feel....could do 1 headshot and 1 body shot for kills. it would be easily attainable due to TR Sniper low recoil and easy handling. NC would lose all Semi Auto SRs, but thier weapons would get improved velocity and a longer damage degradation range. Body shots would deal a bit more damage, not OHK to the body, I cant stand **** like that.....but maybe 750@50m-675@300m. They would kill on headshots as per normal. NC and thier shotguns.......lol....they would lose the Auto Shotties and keep some of the Semi Autos, but lose slugs. Then the Shotgun would be good for moderate CQC ability, but the TR's higher RoF would still beat it out between 10-30m, closer then 10m the Shotty would likely win. TR would lose all Shotguns, VS would lose all shotguns.
Don't take faction traits that literally, when it comes to guns they all work in specific boundaries with it's own rules. NC doesn't have 750 RoF guns with 167 damage per bullet just because "duh! It is their empire trait!", nor do TR have 750 RoF shotguns for same reason. Now to the specifics: Making higher RoF then 600 with 167 damage per bullet will skyrocket its DPS making it far superior to alternatives and make it's TTK really low to a point of insta gibing infantry. That's bad. No, it's bad. On the second thought let me rephrase - it is BAD. There is no point in changing the only TRs slow-firing LMG with high damage per bullet into yet another fast\mediocre RoF weapon with lower damage, TR have a bunch of those already. Best RoF with such damage per bullet is 600, and all weapons with this RoF belongs to NC (except SABR burstfire-only assault rifle from TR). I'm kinda fine that they do have best RoF with such damage profile since it is their faction speciality, but thing that annoys me is that they do have the good stuff from TR without any penalty in RoF. Atleast in carbines\ARs. The only true unique weapons that TR have are TORQ-9, arguably (due to its DPS inferiority comparing to NC\VS alternatives with slightly lower RoF) lynx,.but I digress. I'm against of damage increase since that would take unique guns from NC, namely 200 dmg ones. About accuracy it's pretty normal for LMGs, since it have high damage\low RoF it is even better then high RoF guns in a sense, since bloom per shot is only 0,01 greater but shots needed to kill is lower by 1-2 bullets. Ammo pool is in between your CqC LMGs with 50 rounds per mag and more long range LMGs with 100 rounds per mag. With given reload speed it is decent, maybe a long reload could be a little faster. What I would love to see on TMG-50 is advanced forward grip(even at a cost of reduced RoF to 550) and flash suppressor, that would make it pretty much golden for me. Everything else with this gun is fine by me.
The kick is something you learn to control, ask the NC. Regarding the bloom you need to look further than just the bloom/shot value and factor in starting COF and damage tier.
My problems with TMG is that the recoil is too much for it to be considered a long range lmg. The low min dmg isnt high enough to compensate for missed shots due to recoil/bloom, unlike nc lmgs And the rof makes it bad (compared to other options) for anything else. Sure you can tap fire at range, but then you may aswell just use a BR.
https://docs.google.com/a/efsllc.co...10m&sortcolid=-1&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250 I've posted this elsewhere, but it merits reiterating.... The TMG-50 is fine. Comparing it to the other 167-damage LMGs: only 2 have a higher damage output: the EM6 and Anchor, both NC weapons w/ 600RPM. Which is fine since the NC have to use 167-damage weapons as their CQC LMGs it has the lowest FSRM - 1.5, tied w/ the GD-22S it has the fastest recoil recovery of any LMG - 15, tied w/ the GD-22S and NS-15M it has the same .175 horizontal recoil as all of the NC options, and is better than both VS 167DMG LMGs it has the same CoF bloom and ADS CoF as almost all the others (only the Anchor and GD-22s have .5 tighter ADS CoF while moving, but again, they're NC) It's almost exactly the same as the SAW S, but with the fastest recoil recovery and lowest FRSM of any 167DMG LMG in exchange for 15m/s lower velocity and a horizontal tolerance of 7 instead of 6. Like every 167-dmg LMG that has .175 Horizontal Recoil, it's an excellent long range LMG, and it's deadly accurate when fired in bursts. You just have to learn how to control its vertical recoil and not let the recoil control you. And its top-rank FSRM and recoil recovery help you do that. The only change I'd be okay with is increasing its RoF to make it more dakka in exchange for lower damage per shot. Say, 155 damage and 625 RPM, maybe w/ +10 in the mag. But that would kinda defeat the purpose of the weapon's design. The Devs specifically gave each faction a number of weapons that have traits that emulate the strengths/behavior of the other factions. The TMG-50 is the TR's take on an NC weapon. Which means high damage per shot and good long range accuracy.
