Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Ruvan, Jun 30, 2014.
Both good alternative suggestions.
I agree with the "underwater mines are BS" part - I even had to go knife some mines to blow them up yesterday as bullets effectively seem to stop on the surface of the water. I couldn't shoot them out with a SMG at least.
However, making mines not work at all on a continent mostly comprised of water seems kind of daft. A bit like killing the baby to make it stop crying, you know?
A really simple fix would be to just make the water act like any other surface on the other continents. That's it. Mines can then be set off as normal by anyone who spots them.
Possibly it might be worth having lights on the mines like on the anti-infantry mines for slightly earlier detection chances or something, but nerfin them completely into the ground just doesn't seem like a logical decision.
They are already "rare opportunity" items, unless you use them aggressively to blow up Sunderers and so on, so any reduction in their usefulness as mines would hurt a lot on their viability.
Another "fix" for mines would be simply having Infiltrators on Flashes go in advance on the paths, the main force is supposed to take - they'll either spot the mines or remove them (with their exploding Flashes) for a cheap 100 resource cost.
With what goal, preventing tank mines from ever killing a ground vehicle again?
If mines are 5m apart, they will never detonate on the same vehicle. You put them in horizontal orientation on the road, no vehicle is wide enough to hit both. You put them longitudinally, and people will just stop and rep after hitting the first one (granted, this situations is hilarious, but it's a gratuitous waste of resources).
I do like Ganjis' idea of adding C4 resistance, giving more incentive/utility to mine guard.
They can be pretty annoying, especially since I always die to the tank mines that are in ludicrously stupid spots (like in the upper levels of a tower, on footpaths that no sane person would take a vehicle or 3 feet from their sundy) - in my flash ofc =p But they're totally legit, it's probably one of the best counters to my flash, though I dont think I've ever died to someone who intended to kill me with them lol
Basically if they pissed me off enough I'd get mine armour. But nano regen is more beneficial on average to me, I'm far more likely to take some light fire and need some reps than I am to run over a mine.... though yeah, it can be annoying =p
I havent used the EOD III myself but from what I've heard some rather mixed reviews - I'll have to look into it at some point. Do you have personal experience with it?
The idea of C4 resist is nice, but SOE hasn't seemed to want to go that route. It would be nice if they did, since mine guard is pretty niche, even with tank mines as they are.
Tank mines do a ton of damage to a vehicle. Being able to stack them almost guarantees a death for the driver, to which we as drives have little defense against other than driving carefully everywhere. EOD hud will highlight them, but movement and lag means we'll likely drive over the mines before EOD hud brings them up for us. Could they extend EOD hud's range by double? Sure, but it just creates a new problem.
As for the 5 meter thing, it's an option I considered because instant death in expensive vehicles is not fun. As for me, I love dropping tank mines in obscure places and getting the odd kill every now and again. However, they aren't fun to fight against, and they largely are fire and forget weapons.
Yes, with cautious driving it worked well for me.
With that said, when I play infantry, which is most of the time, I mainly play Engineer. Since implants have been released, I have noticed a remarkable difference in the number of kills attributed to AT mines. AI mine effectiveness seems to remains unchanged, as most infantry players probably do not load an EOD implant.
I have not played PS2 over the past two weeks and cannot comment on AT mine effectiveness on Hossin.
If you're driving very cautiously already then I question why you would want to sacrifice your implant slot for EOD HUD. EOD HUD doesn't help you unless you're driving slowly looking for mines anyway, in which case you might as well not use it because you should be able to spot them normally.
They should show up on thermal/IRNV imo.
No No No!
They did it to the (like always) hard nerfed tankmines months before.. With a Plus that they were big pizzas.
But being visible on thermals made them utterly useless, because nearly EVERYONE would blow them up before they blow them up.
True. I think that is the purpose of the EOD implant. Overall, as a Harasser driver, I usually stay off the main roads when possible to avoid mines (okay, it is really because it is so darn fun to drive off the beaten path). However, when I come close to a base or area where mines are usually located, a cautious drive through is warranted.
With the EOD implant, mine guard and manual spotting, by one's character or an allied faction member, AT mines really should not be an issue without the presence of a bug that negatively influences gameplay.
Reading through the forums, I'm beginning to think EOD helps Harassers a lot more than other ground vehicles.
I keep seeing the same comments:
"The range is too short"
"Not enough time to react"
"Mines still don't show up"
And, only running ranks 1 or 2, I haven't had any of these problems. I mean, I run rank 2 on all my characters (that have rank 2), and when I combine and get a rank 3, I just match it to a rank 2 for an ultra charger. The only time I've hit mines running EOD was when I switched factions one night, and assumed the mine I saw was a friendly (thankfully, there was only one there...). Perhaps the better agility/maneuvering allows us to dodge easier?
I'm still killing tons (relatively speaking) of MBTs each play session with tank mines. TBH, most people expect EOD to be a crutch so they don't have to pay attention or consider the route they are running. When you use it in conjunction with some simple map reading, situational awareness, etc., it seems very effective. EX: If you're on SW Amerish above Wokuk, heading from West Pass up the road, and you come to that chokepoint in the road that's 12m wide, with steep hills on each side, slow down. That's a great place for mines, you should be thankful you don't see them there more often. Running EOD in a Racer MBT is no excuse for dying to mines. Pay attention, kids.
Note: I haven't seen the issues people are reporting on Hossin, with invincible/invisible underwater mines. Everywhere else, though, it seems just fine.
I'd like to add this post was intended as a response/extension of contemplation, and none of the comments or notes are intended to be inflammatory or insulting to the person quoted.
AT mines have already a quite small niche.
Giving mineguard some C4 resist would just become the only one smart choice superior to every defensive utility and would make tank mines 99% useless.
That would make vehicle driving almost god mod and brainless.
Ok for a C4guard a a new defense slot wich wouldn't affect the AT mines.
Yes it's sad to die sometimes by AT tank mines but i'm pretty sure that tanks deaths by AT mines < any AV and can be avoided by some cheap ways.
Last I checked, vehicles had this wonderful tree you could cert into, called "Mineguard"
Did they take it out? According to the op, sure looks that way.
It would be really nice if SOE sectioned up the Defense slots for Defense (Armor) and Defense (Utility), Armor containing the front, sides, top and Mineguard, and Utility containing Proxy Radar, Nanites and Stealth, allowing a bit more mixing and greater general survivability.
As it stands, I don't think I'd trade my maxed out Stealth on my Lightning for Mineguard. If they split it up though, you bet I'd pick up Mineguard, at least for Hossin excursions.
The best defense for tank mines is to put yourself in the mindset of "If I was the enemy, and I placed tank mines here, would I think that I would be able to get easy certs?". That is the question to ask yourself, and if it is true at a certain location: Travel off the road, carefully check chokepoints, slow up from top speed, scan the path in front of you, don't run through water/grass/bumps/small rocks, don't crest roads/ridges that are not already free from mines. Infantry clusters pushing forward are the best minesweeper you can have, sure not always do they kill them or spot them, but it is very likely that they do so. In the rare circumstance that the mines that killed you were not in common locations: the engineer could not get to a road safely or tanks were already there, saw that no matter where he placed it a tank would wander into it, set it up for defense of a now non-existing asset, you found a random mine field from a long dead battle that were not cleared, or you got extremely unlucky.
Smart players expect mindless drones to haplessly drive in predictable paths, knowing full well the amount of easy to employ counters are already there, but that the tankers will probably ignore caution over speed to their next destination.
I have placed mines on key point rooftops during dead hours where individuals would ghost cap lattice lines for certs/speed pushing/something to do in their extreme menace ESFs and Liberators. The amount of rage that those kills cause is much more significant then any random tank dying to a mine set up to wreck them. When you land on a random friendly air pad far behind your lines, just to go poof; yes, there will be anger.
The whole point in tank mines and C4 is to take out tanks. Nerfing them would just make them worthless.
For someone to sneak up on a tank and place 2 c4 bricks or mines, without being seen, takes skill. Far more than the ones driving the tanks. Risk vs reward and all that...
Sorry but I don't think it takes that much skill. Anyone that has spent much time playing the game at all can easily place 3 tank mines in a known well-used bottleneck for an easy kill.
It is so hard to use EOD perk so u can see the mines if someone has a problem with em ... there problem fixed!
Or do u want the same freeking "buzzlightyear" neon flashing light that NC has in their AI mines and cos of that no one walks to em anymore
How about making pulled vehicles unable to set off tank mines while uncontrollable and for a second or two after you regain control (while still vulnerable to them exploding via other means), or invulnerable to them while uncontrollable and for a second or two after you regain control (clearing the path for themselves but still detonating them and dealing damage to other targets) .
Hmm.... dunno if I am thinking outside the box here or just trying not to reinvent the wheel. Who didn't come up with this idea already, let me know if this was already discussed and where...
There is a problem of tank mines placed at pull points, fix the issue not the tanks mines used to create the issue...
I am probably one of the worst offenders when it comes to cheesing tank mines, my suggestion is this:
A vehicle can only be affected by one tank mine explosion at once, even if two blasts go off, it will only take the damage for one. This will force the spacing out of mines, because if they are close enough to set each other off, they are wasted.
Reduce the resource cost of tank mines from 75 -> 40-50. To reflect their reduced effectiveness, and promote their use to create a "minefield" rather than an instagib trap or sundy gibbing.
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