Greetings there Planetsiders and SOE. Now this is not another thread about buffing/fixing the Jackhammer, but more like a discussion. I am not going to say something like "This weapon is terrible!" or "here is how to fix it", but will state my opinion and some information i gathered from other players about this weapon. What makes ps1 veterans think it is a bad gun and what people find strange in it. The idea came to my mind about a week ago when i was on my vacation, the GU02 came live with a few JH buffs which seemd a bit strange to me, but w/e. I watched a few threads about the "new JH", asked some people about their general feelings of the buffed weapon, and came to the conclusion that these buffs did not really change peoples mind. Yes, in fact its perfomance improoved a bit, but not exactly what people really wanted, as it seems. What might be wrong? The damage the weapon deals? Perhaps the ultimate reason you might wanna say - the damage? Or maybe there are some more reasons why people dislike this weapon, especially talking about ps1 veterans who had a lot of experience running with original jackhammer. What if the problem not just in how the weapon operates, but also how it sounds, how it looks? The problem might actually be the psychological perception that makes ps1 vets dislike the new version of JH. And to be honest i share the same opinion, i just can not accept and call the new version a JackHammer. So here we go, the main idea of the thread is to compare and discuss the great old Jackhammer, and the new version. Different models -Original Jackhammer Lets take a close look at the NC most famouse weapon from Planetside 1, the legendary JackHammer: As we may immidiately notice, it has 3 barrels. The weapon looks very brutal, and the enemy knows that going head to head with a guy holding a JH in a building is a very, very bad idea. -New Jackhammer And now the new version from Planetside 2: Now we have only one barrel, but a bigger one. The model itself completely changed, tbh when i first saw this model i thought it was a nade launcher or something. A huge squarish magazine, a revolvers handgrip. The model looks cool, but than again it absolutely does not remind me of the JackHammer. This is a very sad moment, i think SOE should not have changed it that much. Different sounds-Original JackhammerPS1 vets remember the sound of this beast, it reminds us of a guy wrecking down a wall with a hugejackhammer, crushing concrete into ashes. Here is an example (actually had to buy PS1 subscription, as all videos of JH gameplay had stupid music): -New Jackhammer The new version sounds a bit... smaller, comparing it with PS1 JH. It no longer sounds like a jackhammer, but probably like a big nailgun or something. Maybe it does not sound like a nailgun, but definitely not like a jackhammer. Different firing mode-Original Jackhammer If we check the videos above again, we'll notice that PS1 JH has automatic firing mode with 16 pellets per magazine, that is a significant part of the JH's mechanics which made the weapon unstopable. Also it had the second firing mode, which shot 3 pellets a click, but with less damage, more spread, longer re-fire time, and smaller delay between 3 pellets. That was an amazing feature for stairs battles and moments when you could unexpectedly bumb into an enemy soldier. -New Jackhammer Now it has a semi-automatic mode, what in my opinion is a very bad change for the weapon, it feels very different. And yeah the new version also has the second firing mode, which unleashes 3 pellets in a click, but nothing really happens as it shoots the way you can shoot 3 pellets with single fire mode, i think it gives no advantages at all but actually useless. The gun now has 6 pellets per magazine and 10 with an extended one, its ammo additional ammo capacity is extrimely low. The gun looks different, sounds different, and now it operates absolutely different. Conclusion These are the three problems that bother me and a lot of ps1 vets the most about the new weapon called JackHammer in Planetside 2. The veterans of PS1 are a huge part of planetside community and we state our opinion based on our experience in planetside 1, and many non-veteran players most of the time consider our thoughts. The iconic weapon of the NC has been replaced with a babygun which inferior other types of shotguns. Where is the weapon we were proud of? Where is the gun that we could always rely on? It is gone. I will continue fighting for the NC despite the jackhammer, but i am a bit dissapointed. Now im out of anything else to say but leave it up to you to discuss and share your opinions, thank you for your patience. Sincerely, D-Spirith. Your planetsider.
Good points, nice information. I never played PS1, let alone heard of it before PS2, but a friend of mine is a long, long-term veteran in it. Now, since I don#t really know the old Jackhammer from my experience, I'm gonna state my opinion based on how it is in PS2 and three poitns that come to my mind about it: 1. No competitive Heavy Assault Special AI Weapon. This is fairly simple. The MCG is a bit of a bullet hose, spewing out bullets nicely with no drop in damage (who thought of this?). Yes, one might argue it's just a weird LMG. But it WORKS, as I had to find out very painfully many times. The Lasher is also such a thing. Maybe it's damage is not exciting, but the weapon is pretty unique, you can lay down a lot of fire and you don't even have to hit directly. Now, the Jackhammer? It feels like just another shotgun, most notably, though, it's ammo capacity/RoF is VASTLY lower. Plus, it can only be used at an extremely small range, unlike the other two, which can be used on higher ranges then absolute CQC aswell. And then, it's even worse than them (which I also had to painfully find out). 2. Very low and wacky effective range (applies to all shotguns, in my opinion) One problem I do have with shotguns is their general performance vs. range. Namely, it drops extremely sharply, whereas other weapons more-or-less slowly fall off. Even the more CQC-style Carbines, ARs and LMGs can be used at at least medium distance with some control. Shotguns, however, lose any usability very quickly. Why? In my opinion, two things: a) too few pellets, only 6 (it's a shotgun, comeon), b) too much spread on these very few pellets. I've had a situation where I shot at a Heavy Assault, he didn't have his shield on, I fired out 6 shells of my Jackhammer before he turned to me and flattened me with his MCG. I didn't even get through his shields. It was maybe 10m of range inbetween us. So, yea, with the few pellets going everywhere except your target, shooting is very much a gamble. It's like critically hitting in other games.. except that here, it's like a 5% chance. And that's just neither right nore useful nor anything. 3. No ammo capacity whatsoever has been mentioned earlier, but it's worth saying again: 6 shells is nothing. You need two shells for a single enemy at point blank, at 5m likely 3-5, at 10m there's a good chance you empty your magazine even before your enemy is dead. This goes along with 2. a little - if I were sure to actually hit and deal a good amount of damage with these few shells, okay. But I don't even do that, have to constantly reload and drain my total ammo pool very, very quickly. Just for fun, the potential killing capacity when assuming you always deal full damage with every shot for all Special AI Weapons: MCG: 57.2 kills Lasher: 45 kills Jackhammer: ~24.2 kills You calculate it, you see it. In terms of the Jackhammer, it's even the most unrealistic due it's extremely unreliable nature and damage drop which neither the Lasher nor the MCG have. My spontaneous thoughts about it. A friend of mine also speculated that, because we both heard the PS1 Jackhammer was supposed to be pretty OP back then, they didn't want to have it like that in PS2 again aswell.
The magazine should be at least 9 or 12 stock, its ridiculous I can carry 400 rounds for a SAW or EM6 and kill 15+ guys with it, but with a jackhammer you are lucky to get beyond 3-4 before running out of ammo.
I understand all the complains about the Jackhammer in PS2 and how good it was in PS1, but the ultimate answer you will get from the devs is: This is not PS1 - get used to it! All weapons in this game are just models and data on a spreadsheet. It doesn't matter how it looks nor how it sounds, all you need is low recoil, low cone of fire and high DPS. I'd throw a poisoned hamburger at my opponents if that gets me the kill. In other words, yes the Jackhammer is terrible, but we got better weapons to compensate for that.
I think the main issue with it is the aesthetics. If it had that Clu Clunk Boom the old PS1 gun had i would enjoy it even more. MCG and Lasher both have an element of cool where the JH has a nice reload graphic that you cant really see when using it. The actual guns effectivness is now actually pretty good. I dont care what anyone says im playing with it and doing very well at CQ to +15m which is most indoors locations.
One thing they could do with the jack hammer is just have it be able to switch from Shotgun mode to Slug mode.. as in you just press B and it has a second chamber where the other ammo is just stored. Sure this makes it medium range and short range, but whatever. Making it it to MORE OF A SUPER SHOT GUN! is a horrible idea. you an already kill somebody with a any other shotgun in one shot or 2... what is the jackhammer supposed to do above that?.. just kill them and they cant respawn? It does not have a speciality niche like the Chainguns for the other two factions.. its just another shotgun that is underpowered... give it the above option.
It does less damage per shot then any other shotgun. Making it at least equal would be a start. 3 body shots to kill and 6 rounds is terrible.
with the new flinch mechanic now in place the jackhammer really got ****** up with the lowest damage tier flinch and low ROF.
NC shotguns Max shotguns Two round kills can fire two rounds at same time. Other shotguns Two rounds kills has to fire twice. New pump shotguns One round kills. Jackhammer Needs three rounds to kill only holds six rounds. And people wonder why everyone says Jackhammer sucks. Make the Jackhammer a full auto version of pump shotguns.
Make it full auto, 18 round mag, with pump-action damage at < 5m that falls off to regular shotgun damage for > 5m. . Alt fire mode fires 3 at a time with a wide spread following above damage rules.
Turn it into a re-skined piston with a 20 round base mag cap and that would be enough for me to use it.
Well not making it sound like it sounded in PS1 is just strange, it was and is an iconic sound, it's like changing lightsabers to sound like a whoopee cushion when ignited. But other than that it's just that the PS2 JH is worse all situations than the common-pool shotguns, except at ranges where you should be using a LMG anyway. The PS1 JH did its job, the PS2 JH doesn't even do anything as well as the other shotguns.
Different rule sets result in different weapons. In PS2 most weapons have to fall into a certain set of parameters to make it a side-grade to the other weapons. Basically it's not allowed to be better, or worse, than the other shotguns, just situationally different, so you'll never see the PS1 jackhammer here for that reason. It has to be remade to fit the PS2 rulesets and they're still working that out. Compared to standard shotguns, the jackhammer does less damage per pellet, but it's damage doesn't start dropping until 15m and it has a higher pellet velocity, whereas with both the semi, auto, and pump shotguns they start at 5m and hit their minimum at about 15m. On paper this is an extrodinary advantage that's worth the Jackhammer's shortcomings, however because it is a pellet spread weapon there's a level of randomness to it's damage output, which is the weapon's downfall, and makes it feel underwhelming especially for the longer ranges for which it was designed to break into. It fit's a niche that a weapon of that type can't easily fill, which makes it feel ineffective at times but when I got that first 15m kill I reconsidered a lot of my gripes about the jackhammer, and use it often now when I play HA. It can still use some love just because at the standard <10m shotgun range it's intentionally weaker to compensate for it's effectiveness at range, but at those ranges it's damage capability is severely cut into by pellet spread, which while tighter than other shotguns, is still just too random to allow for any reliable damage expectations. For example, at 15m I've killed in 2 shots, I've killed in 5 shots, just because the pellet connection per shot is so dramatically different thanks to the ranom element. What the JH really needs to be more competative is to somehow make it's damage output more reliable in the 10-15m range without making it stronger than the base trio shotguns at <10m ranges, but that's easier said than done, since shotguns are a balance nightmare, and shotgun with improved range is probably doubly so. I can only thing of two ways to MAYBE do this, and that's to increase pellet damage to 125, requiring one less connection to kill but still not overpower the base trio at close range. But this might not be enough. The other would be to tighten the JH's spread so that at 15m it's even with what one would expect from a mauler or sweeper at 5m. This would make it only marginally more powerful at close ranges, but still below the base trio, while allowing it to be more effective at the ranges it can reach.
turn it into an automatic shotgun with a variable choke. 20 pellets that do 50 damage each = ohk @5m. hipfire cof. 2-3 with cof bloom of .5 ads cof. either .5 or 1 with a cof bloom of .1 that would give it good midrange in ads and good cqc in hipfire. the increased number of pellets would help average out the damage. increase magazine and total ammo to be competitive with other heavy special weapons.
That is because it IS ineffective. At the ranges where the JH becomes better than the common-pool shotgun options you'd be better with a SMG or a CQ-friendly LMG. Both the Minigun and the Lasher have areas where they do excell (albiet specific areas), the JH simply has none. It just has a small area of range where it's more effective than the common-pool shotguns, but less effective than SMG or CQ-LMGs. The JH could work for example if they gave it common-pool shotgun killing power close up, and then an alt-fire choked-mode for slightly longer range, but much lower DPS (like the PS1 ScatMAXs). Or the current power but with an alt-mode that emptied the clip at least as quickly as the Piston (the current triple shot is slower by a significant bit), or an alt-mode that hits as hard as pump-action shotgun but with a massive reload time. Or the current power but with at least double the shots per clip (with its current power I'd even argue for triple the shots per clip as currently). The Lasher and Minigun occupy a slight different place to the weapons availibe to HA of those factions, and give them a specific role if they wish to use it, the JH simply occupies a non-place between the current shotguns and SMG/LMGs.
The Jackhammer doesn't have the lethality of a shotgun. It's just a weak Sweeper. Nobody cares about the extended range when it fails in the PS2 shotgun role of point blank, all-in, high risk/reward lethality. As for fixing it, if you made the pellet damage 143, it would be a clear upgrade to other shotguns (sidegrade to the pump, probably). Maybe that's the level it should be - it's a HA exclusive, afterall? Otherwise, reinvent it and do something interesting with it. Personally, I'm fine with boring but effective. I don't care about graphics and effects. I just hate broken weapons that are cert/SC traps in a game like this.
You ****** it up weapon designers you ****** up no ******* care for that gun **** you, I know ill get in trouble for this one.
