Thoughts on the new ES Assault Rifles?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Campagne, Oct 16, 2019.

  1. Campagne

    I'm curious about how everyone else feels about the newest set of ES carbines. This thread is just about first impressions & opinions, not about anything unrelated. Let's not get distracted so soon this time! Also keep in mind there are all just my own opinions.



    As always the MG-MGR naming convention is a terrible design wrought with flaws. But just when you think it couldn't get any more vague and lazy, we're given this: MGR-A1, MG-A1, and the VE-A. For those watching at home, they even fncked up their own naming convention in the patch notes, probably because it makes no sense. The VS weapons don't get a number, only the NC's and TR's do, yet the official listing for the weapon in the update notes is "VE-A1." Need I say more?

    Yes I will die on this hill.

    As for aesthetics, once again they all look great in my opinion, but are basically just longer carbines just like those in turn were pretty much nothing but longer SMGs. Was the purpose of the Doku models not to have more unique weapon skins?

    And finally, I'm personally not a fan of burst weapons in general. Some guns can handle the mechanic well but it's often not an enjoyable one in my personal experience.

    MGR-A1 Vanquisher

    Dumb name, surprisingly easy to spell. A greater surprise, not only is it actually pretty good, it's probably the best of three ARs in my opinion. 1 for 5 ain't bad, at least not for the NC. InB4 nerf.

    Unfortunately this marks the NC's third 200 DMG AR, and almost obsoletes both the Reaper and A-Tross as a long-range assault rifle. Little damage loss over range with very little recoil and small CoFs? Add in the bloom resetting naturally with the burst mechanics and we get a weapon that actually does damage at range and has the recoil patterns and accuracy to use the damage effectively.

    I'd personally have preferred a different weapon, we just don't need three 200/~500s on the same weapon class. The A-Tross is now a bit of a pointless middle ground between the superior general-use Reaper DMR and the superior long-ranged Vanquisher, being worse at each rifle's respective niche.

    As for the actual stats, as above very little recoil with a grip combined with very strong damage and accuracy makes for a powerful weapon. The 451RPM when combined with the burst mechanic does leave it fairly underwhelming for shorter ranges however, taking a very long time to kill comparatively.

    Two notable attachments:
    • Sabot Ammunition: Allows the Vanquisher to penetrate an unlimited number of infantry at the cost of a 10% reduction to fire rate.
    As with the Bishop before it, the already low RoF doesn't suffer as much as another weapon might, but any reduction in RoF is of a greater significance. And of course being a long-range weapon infantry-penetration is completely worthless and would not be worth any detriment whatsoever. Downgrade.
    • Disruptor Ammunition: Direct hits now strip 75 shield health and 6% maximum ability energy from enemies, and will deal high damage to small deployables, but reduces bullet damage to 125 at all ranges.
    Terrible for actual combat. Hitting shielded enemies will deal 200 damage regardless of range, but then upon removing the shield enemies will only take 125 damage from a RoF of 451 before the burst mechanic. Ability drain is not effective enough to be of use on an AR and small deployables will already be taking high damage by virtue of the baseline 200 damage bullets. Downgrade.

    Final verdict: Incredible weapon for the questionable niche of mid-long to long-extreme range non-bolt-action infantry combat. If fighting at such long ranges little short of an actual rifle will compete, but the moment an enemy gets within a reasonable distance the Vanquisher just isn't going to be effective due solely to the very poor RoF.

    MG-A1 Arbalest

    Very dumb name. Arbalest, not Arbalist. An arbalest is essentially a crossbow. Ya' know, the thing know for a very low rate of fire which launches armour-penetrating bolts, replaced by early firearms. A gun that shoots six rapid low-damage bullets is literally the exact opposite.

    Stats wise the Arbalest is probably the weakest of the three in my opinion. The six-round burst has the most recoil (which still isn't unbearable) with the least accuracy, and just isn't really very good for long-ranged combat. It reminds me of the TRAP, a weapon with an odd effective range from just past short to just before mid-long. It's okay within these ranges but isn't better than another weapon might be under the same circumstances.

    Because of the long bursts, at range the bloom causes a good chance of at least one miss.

    Attachments are as follows:
    • Stabilizing Rotor: Reduces vertical recoil by 30%, while slowing the refire rate between each shot in a burst by roughly 7%.
    The difference in RoF is nigh unnoticeable quite unlike the recoil decrease. Not a mandatory attachment as the recoil isn't awful by any means, but not very detrimental either. Upgrade.
    • Incendiary Launcher: A single-shot under-barrel incendiary launcher. Increases weapon equip time by 0.25s.
    Not going to say it's useful but really equip time penalties are so infrequently an issue it might as well not even be there. If for some reason not using a grip, there's not much harm in having it for the kicks. Ammo is quite limited though. Upgrade/Sidegrade.
    • Impact Ammunition: Increases the weapon's minimum damage to 125 from 100 and reduces magazine size by 6.
    With IA the Arbalest deals 125 damage per shot at all ranges. With the magazine reduction the weapon can fire 5 bursts from full to empty instead of 6 bursts. If the Arbalest was better at range I'd be all for it, but as it stands there isn't really a major impact at long ranges. Ideally the player wouldn't need more than 30 bullets to kill someone anyway but this is PS2 we're talking about. Sidegrade.

    Final verdict: It's passable, not great. Doesn't serve a major purpose not already filled by other rifles and doesn't do so any better than those rifles either. It lacks the accuracy at range to beat out the competing rifles while lacking the point-blank DPS of others like the Cycler or TAR. I'm unimpressed, it ought to at least bloom less over each burst.

    VE-A Lacerta

    Seriously, names are important people! Pick ones people can pronounce and spell easily, which describe the weapon accurately. Lacerta is Latin for "lizard" which is what I will be referring to it as from now on, as that's more fun. If you were wondering the name comes from it's the constellation of the same name, you guessed it, of a lizard.

    The Lizard's stats are very decent. A 167/566 with exceptional accuracy, no projectile drop, and extremely low recoil. Not much else to say, has an extra burst for some reason. Great at range, less great at not-range.

    Another three attachments of note:
    • Vented Power Core: Removes the long reload penalty and increases directional horizontal recoil while firing.
    Increased horizontal recoil in exchange for never suffering a 0.45s longer reload? Just don't fire all 33 shots in the magazine and that won't be a problem anyway... Can't have a grip with it at the same time either. Downgrade.
    • High Velocity Ammunition: Increases the Lizard's projectile velocity by 10% (550m/s), increases the minimum damage range by 20m, and reduces the maximum damage range by 2m.
    Hey, the other two ARs don't get this option. For a long-range rifle which suffers in close quarters the Lizard just doesn't stand to lose anything by equipping it. Upgrade.
    • Lashing Ammunition: Converts 40% of the weapon's direct damage into a small explosive blast on impact, and reduces in-flight velocity by 50%.
    The damage dealt with direct hits is unchanged; There is no differences in shots to kill. This attachment effectively allows the Lizard to act as a mini burst-variant Lasher. Not super effective but not awful. The velocity reduction is bad but not unworkable. Sidegrade.

    Final verdict: A very easy point-and-click burst assault rifle. Good damage, poor damage degradation, little recoil with great accuracy. Good, maybe not great though. As with the Arbalest there isn't really a need for this in the VS' arsenal. The existing burst AR is comparable already.


    I don't really see a need for burst-style primaries and assault rifles aren't at all what springs to mind.

    The NC's is the best in my opinion because it actually does something useful which other non-burst assault rifles don't already do better, even if what it does isn't very important. In the same vein the TR's Arbalest is the worst because it's the most pointless and redundant.

    I can't say any of the three would or should be commonplace weapons as they're just not reflective of the most common combat scenarios faced by medics or ASP'd engineers.
    • Up x 3
  2. SteelMantis

    So far the Lacerta have been working very well for me. Maybe it`s not great for a front line medic but I like to hang back a little and it works well at medium ranges.
  3. pnkdth

    Happy to see more 200 damage variants for NC (and useful!). TR already had the SABR so the more close-middish range is interesting as a TRAP-AR with bigger bursts. The VS one is quite interesting and I actually really like they're experimenting more, coming up with hybridised ammo rather than the boring/dumb as heck UA.
  4. Liewec123

    WWhat is the damage like on TR underbarrel incendiary launcher?
    Camikaze mentioned it's existence in his overview video but never actually showed it or talked about it.
  5. Scroffel5

    Uh, Heavies. Shield damage is still the same as the regular bullets, but it taking away 6% maximum ability energy is a big oof to Heavies. 6% means that 16 shots will reduce the classes to no energy, but the thing is, Heavys lose their ability when they absorb the energy. The other classes don't matter that much, except for maybe a medic? You can now kill Heavys faster with this weapon.
  6. RRRIV

    it felt a little less than the regular MGL's. dont expect it to be as cancerious, but do expect a TR medic to use one to (try to) finish you off when you run away.

    i dont have damage numbers for you if thats what you want
  7. RRRIV

    the arbalest feels awful. the Jackal with it's 9 round burst performs better. the Saber does better too, but thats besides the point.
  8. That_One_Kane_Guy

    I do love burst fire guns, so I was really excited to try these out. The only two I have used thus far are the Arbalest and the Vanquisher.

    The Arby didn't really impress me, too inconsistent and not enough effective range to make me feel like I wouldn't be better off using the TORQ. It honestly gave me the same feeling of RNG I get when using a shotgun. A competitive TTK with this weapon means killing in one burst, and unfortunately in a game like Planetside there are too many factors which can prevent that from occurring for this gun to truly rival its peers.

    One issue with this weapon that I noticed that hasn't been brought up yet is the fact that it is a team damage machine. Every time you pull that trigger you are committing to ~1/2 second stream of bullets coming out of the barrel whether you want them to or not. This often leads to situations where you end up shooting a teammate with several shots or even a full burst with this rifle where with another gun you might have been able to stop shooting after just one or two bullets. Killed that enemy HA with the first two shots and there's a friendly behind him? Too bad, you just shot Marvin in the face. Far from a big issue as far as this rifle is concerned, but something worth noting.

    On the other hand, the Vanquisher was great. It was basically everything the Arby wasn't: consistent, reliable, deadly. Bursts felt quick and accurate, and the bloody thing hits like a truck so even without headshots two bursts would almost always drop an enemy. The only distress I experienced using this weapon was the usual amount caused by playing NC on Connery.

    If what I'm hearing is accurate the VS rifle is also quite good, meaning that they hopefully address the disparity by buffing the Arby instead of nerfing the other two.
    • Up x 2
  9. Campagne

    It's really quite weak. I think it takes about two direct hits to kill?

    Certainly better to be weak than as powerful as some under-barrel grenade launchers have been in the past.

    Unfortunately not so. The heavy's shield has only 450 HP, meaning a single burst with or without the disruptor ammo will take it down to zero. It's still gonna take about three bursts to kill a shielded heavy with or without DA.
  10. ZDarkShadowsZ

    I haven't tried any of the new AR's yet, but thanks to you, I'm going to call it the Lizard from now on.
    • Up x 2
  11. Liewec123

    Yep it's weak, got around to testing it myself and it is waaay weaker than the standard UBGL,
    On my medic I always run gen1 BR with UBGL, so i was hoping that the incendiary launcher would atleast be as strong,
    But it seems far far weaker.

    In short TR definately have the most disappointing weapon this time around,
    And amazingly NC seem to have the best! Wonder how long it'll be before they nerf it XD
    • Up x 1
  12. TerminalT6

    The fact that you commit to .5s of shooting every time you pull the trigger on the arbalest makes it a complete "no" imo. The T1B can do everything it does better. Then again, TR is already stacked for ARs so I'm not shedding any tears.
    • Up x 1
  13. TR5L4Y3R

    i kinda dig each of them...

    NC one has a good punch
    VS requiring one more burst is still ok for its accuraccy
    and TR being the bodyshotstyle weapon while it could get 6 shots more per mag and a bit of a buff to its kick is also fine imo ..
    maybe add a optional 2 or 3 burst to it?

    i think this is a fair set they brought out ...
  14. pnkdth

    Pretty much my stance at the moment. They have an AR for every situation and already two burst variants before this so the only way to go was up. However, one approach would have been to go full auto burst, i.e. instead of of click you hold it down and it go burst, burst, burst with the possibility of interrupting it by letting go. Would have fit the dakka dakka theme better I think too.
  15. Peebuddy

    Been waiting forever for the assault rifle doku variant, it pains me to no end that they're burst fire guns. Why they couldnt have fully auto with a burst option? No one knows

    While the Nc/Vs versions have a niche role, there is virtually no reason for Tr to pick this gun over a fully automatic weapon. Simple trigger discipline will give you accurate bursts while maintaining the option of full auto when some MFer pops up around the corner.
  16. Efraim

    pretty much need the barrel attachment for the TR gun, the recoil is brutal without it. The special ammo makes it 125 damage at all ranges. The UB nade launcher is a 1 hit kill if it hits direct
  17. Demigan

    I used the Vansquisher and it's actually one of the better designed weapons in the game so far.

    I haven't used the other long-range AR's to compare, but as a stand-alone comparison the Vansquisher is a pretty unique weapon so far. It acts a lot like the Bishop in it's range and accuracy, while lacking in shorter ranges as it should for such a specialty weapon. But unlike the Bishop is deals 600 damage per burst (with damage falloffs this time, much more fair). It's accuracy allows you to hit all 3 hits. Strangely the recoil seems to fire the second shot sliiightly to the right of the target each time and the third shot back on target, but that could be my broken mouse that has a problem with the rightmouse button atm (suddenly it zooms/exits several times in a row).

    Basically I use it as a semi-auto sniper rifle (or a battle rifle), only this semi-auto uses a burst and is more accurate than the existing semi-auto sniper rifles.

    The Sabot rounds are fun... But soooo terribly annoying. With the Bishop I had them unlocked almost immediately and despite their drawbacks I used them throughout my aurax of the weapon. If I got 5 kills with the Sabot's that I wouldn't have otherwise it's much. I died more often to the lack of juuuust being able to fire another shot than I killed with it.
    I think it would be better if the Sabot rounds had the drawback of increasing reload time/weapon switch time/decreasing the magazine by a few rounds. It would keep the enjoyability of using Sabot's without hampering the weapon too much. Same for the Bishop.

    So so far I like it. To me it's unique in it's long-range role and capable in using it's bursts effectively while hampering you in short-range combat enough (unless the enemy comes at you through a chokepoint, but that's mostly the skewed headshot bonus talking).
  18. LtBomber

    On the reciving end i feel the Vanquisher a little to strong, but it is too early to judge. All i want to change for now: Giving it less hipfire acc, since it performs a little too well in panic. The "Lizard" (VS) is a fun gun, esp. the Lashing ammo makes it unique! Want that ammo for all guns and as a fraction trait :).
    • Up x 1
  19. Liewec123

    i actually agree, i was playing VS last night and it seemed like NC medics were all running around with buffed Gauss Saws,
    was really OP, if they see you, you're dead in an instant.
    and they're medics!
  20. Mekk_TR

    The new AS for the Terran Repuplic is an insult!!
    Why i should use that shirty weapon ? zero advantage.....!!! stopp INSULTING THE GREAT TERRAN REPPUBLIC !!! OR WE WILL CRUSH YOU WITH GREAT RED DOOMINSLY****