Thoughts on Semi-Auto Rifles

Discussion in 'Test Server: Discussion' started by AnuErebus, Feb 25, 2014.

  1. AnuErebus

    The NS Sniper seems to be in a relatively "finished" state and I was hoping it would get some changes to make it somewhat unique, but right now it's really looking like it's just going to be a Scout Rifle with .75x movespeed. That is very disappointing to see and an opportunity is being missed by SOE to adjust the semi-autos so that they have clear and distinct roles when compared to one another.

    Right now the infiltrator has three semi-autos. The Close Range Sniper Rifles (Impetus/KSR/Phantom), the Long Range Sniper Rifles (Gauss SPR/99SV/Spectre) and the Scout Rifles (Shadow/HSR/Nyx). None of those rifles are in a particularly great state, they all under-perform in comparison to automatics or bolt-actions and it's rare to see them used by anyone who isn't either stuck with them (New TR and VS snipers) or working on an auraxium challenge. With that in mind some of what I'm about to propose will also include areas of improvmeent for these rifles in pursuit of a more balanced overall playing field.

    So here's the idea. Instead of giving us a rehashed scout rifle let's make the four semi-autos have clear and distinct roles from one another while also making them perform better than they do currently compared to other weapon types. This'll require some reworking for each rifle, but ultimately it'll lead to a much better place for these guns in game. Below I have listed some suggested improvements and drawbacks to help define these rifles.

    Long Range Semi-Auto Snipers: Role Long Range Combat

    General Idea: A Stable and Accurate platform for long range sniping. Still surpassed by bolt-actions for headshots, but able to more reliably land shots on moving targets.


    1: Reduce the bloom. This'll be on every semi-auto since the values are killing these rifles currently. Semi-auto is the mode you go to for accuracy, having high bloom values like 1 can turn a firefight with these rifles into a duel with the random number gods. That's not a good mechanic for any rifle. Dropping bloom to .1 would make these rifles feel a lot more accurate.

    2: Increase Projectile Velocity. Arguably one of the most important things for long range combat, upping the projectile velocity on these rifles to 650 or even 600 would makes using these rifles at range much more possible.

    3: Reduce Recoil. At range recoil is crippling to landing consecutive shots and reducing the recoil would help these rifles be much more effective in their role.


    1: Reduce Mag Size. As a long range precision weapon, mag size could be reduced without drastically affecting the weapon's overall performance. However I wouldn't drop the mag size below six rounds.

    Increase Reload Speed: Dropping the reload speed wouldn't have a huge impact on the ranged performance of the weapon, but would provide plenty of vulnerable downtime to help reduce effectiveness in close quarters.

    Close Range Semi-Auto Snipers: Close-Mid Range Combat + Anti-Nanoweave

    General Idea: A strong reliable rifle at close to mid range which can be used effectively even against players running nanoweave.


    1: Reduce the Bloom. Same reason as before, dueling with the random number gods is not fun.

    2: Scrap the "Sniper" designation, it does nothing but hinder this weapon. Make these scout rifles and give them a proper set of attachments, minus the 6x scope.

    3: Improve moving CoF and hip CoF so that these rifles are more effective for the more mobile nature of mid range combat.

    4: Possibly Improve RoF. Last thing I'd add, but probably quite useful. 255 wouldn't be a bad step since that'd give it a clear edge damagewise over the NS sniper and the Long Range Semi-Autos.


    1. Remove the 0 still CoF bonus. Give these rifles .1 like most other moderately accurate rifles.

    2. Increased Falloff: The range at which this rifle reaches min damage could easily be reigned in a bit. Alternatively, the min damage could be dropped to 250, however if that approach is taken I'd suggest making sure it still does 334 damage at ~50m so mid range performance doesn't take a significant hit.

    Semi-Auto Scout Rifles: Mid Range Combat

    General Idea: Mid range rifle which lacks the raw up close punch and nanoweave capability of the Close Range Semi-Autos, but can be easier to handle and works well at mid-long range.


    1: Reduce the Bloom. Again, a semi-auto should be accurate. High bloom values really hurt these rifles.

    2: Improve RoF. Not by a huge amount, but enough to give these rifles a slightly better kick at mid range compared to the NS Sniper. I imagine something close to 275 would provide a solid boost to this weapon's ability.


    1. Reduce Min Damage. Might be worth reducing the min damage slightly so that at extreme ranges this rifle loses the 2 shot headshot capability. It'd have to be at a decent distance though, ~75-100m so that the rifle doesn't lose out in damage output at mid-long range.

    NS Sniper: Mid-Long Range Mobility

    General Idea: Less damaging than the scout and close range semi-autos the NS trades that for versatility through improved movement speed and projectile velocity.


    1: Reduce Bloom. Same reasons as all other rifles.

    2: Improve Projectile Velocity: The Idea here being that this is your backup sniper after the Long Range Semi-Autos. 600 would do nicely if the Long Range Semi-Autos have 650 however 570 would work if the Long Range Semi-Autos only get 600 m/s.


    As is I think there are plenty of drawbacks to this rifle so I wouldn't change much beyond that.

    If some or all of these changes are implemented the semi-auto playingfield would not only have 4 rifles which have some noticeable differences. They'd also perform better in comparison to other rifles. Even if most of this goes ignored/unnoticed there's one thing I'd like to see fixed above all others. The cone of fire bloom on semi-autos is ridiculous. Particularly the Snipers which have a bloom 10-20x as high as most rifles in game. It makes their designation as "snipers" a bit ironic since they're some of the least accurate rifles in game.
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  2. Cromell

    Nice work there with these suggestions! I'm a fan of semi-auto weapons but sadly, the way recoil works in this game make them somewhat cumbersome to use. Yet in skilled hands they are deadly and very efficient.

    Personally, NS semi-auto in its current state is exactly what I've been waiting for. Maybe it's not very different from HSR but that higher movement speed while aiming is what makes the gun THAT much more enjoyable than both HSR and KSR.

    I agree that in most cases, reduced recoil and bloom would greatly improve those weapons and make them work on par with other guns.
  3. DrTeeth

    What the semis need is a simple fix - make their Stand-moving ADS CoF = 0.1. Right now ADS CoF is up at 0.55 for the snipers and 0.25 for the scouts, which means they can't land shots with their limited rate of fire and magazine capacity at longer ranges while strafing.

    If they can't strafe while firing the semi users just get headshotted by the bolt-action users, or mown down more easily by LMGs and ARs, or sniped by tank rounds. Uncloaking and trying to land 3-5 shots on a distant target makes semi users too vulnerable, give them the ability to strafe while maintaining most of their accuracy and they will perform much better.
  4. Benevon

    Any confirmation yet on these rifles being open to all classes? Last I was on PTS they were but I have no idea if that is the intention when they go live. If they are, I guess that is what will set them apart.
  5. AnuErebus

    They were removed from all classes except infiltrator in the latest build.
  6. DeadliestMoon

    Whenever they add in an NS weapon they rebalance the other weapons in its class so that it'll fit right in the middle. They did it for SMGs, LMGs, Carbines, Assault rifles, ect.
  7. Benevon

    Ah thanks. Was kind of looking forward to LA sniping but I figured that change would happen before it went live.
  8. Pikachu

    The NS rifle has less damage so it takes 4 STK at range where impetus and the others take 3, in favor of having a little higher ROF. I feel like this NS SR is what battle rifles should be. It has the damage they should have. It's a bit sad it will not be available to other classes on live. :( It's nice on PTS to have it on my medic.
  9. Ravenorth

    Its enough for me if they fixed the current close-mid range semi-auto rifles, currently Impetus is having upper hand with much faster ADS speed while Phantom and KSR-35 are stuck with low ADS speed.

    They either need to give Impetus ADS speed for Phantom and KSR-35 or bring Impetus to same level with my by slowing its ADS speed.

    I dont care which one it is, I just want unfair advantage from Impetus to be taken away, because these weapons should be identical, expect no bullet drop and faster damage fall off for VS.
  10. AnuErebus

    This is one of the prime reasons as to why I came through with these suggestions. If the current NS sniper goes like there's little reason to use the scout rifles over the NS sniper since more rounds in a magazine and a .75x movespeed modifier on the NS sniper outweight the minor velocity increase and faster reload on the scout rifles.

    I can't say I really noticed them balancing weapons beyond the NS weapons themsevles to make room. In this case we already have the stats for the NS Sniper and it's quite simply in a state which heavily conflicts with the current scout rifles.

    The scout rifles share the exact same damage model as the NS rifle which is a 3-4 shot kill on non-nanoweave players depending on the range and that's the main area of conflict for the NS sniper.

    As for the battle rifle comment, yes, it'd be nice to see a battle rifle with a similar role at some point. However since the NS sniper is only usable by the infil I'm working with the rifle's it'll be directly competing with.

    Didn't really mentioned draw times, but yeah the bug affecting the Phantom and KSR should be fixed at some point as well. Making these rifles all have a long ADS time would go against making them more useful at mid range where that sort of delay is counter productive to active combat.
  11. AnuErebus

    Looking at the latest update I found some changes which relate to this post so I'm going to give some more feedback.

    NS Sniper is now the Vandal. Solid name but it's still currently competing for and by my accounts winning the scout rifle duel thanks to the larger mag and .75x movespeed.

    Semi-Auto Snipers both got a slight update. Their bloom per shot has been reduced from 1 to .8. It's nice to see that they're being looked at, unfortunately it doesn't help much to change a terrible bloom to a slightly less terrible state. The .3 bloom on the scout rifles is bad. .8 is still ridiculously high and I really hope that this is just a temporary change before it drops to something more useful like .1 or even .2.

    Impetus has also started being affected by the slow ADS bug present on live with the KSR and Phantom. Hopefully that'll get fixed before it reaches live. No reason to add to the list of downside for this rifle.