Thoughts on CTF?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by RabidIBM, Dec 12, 2022.

  1. JibbaJabba

    My biggest complaint is the "loss" of otherwise good bases. Some of these bases were favorites of ... well lots of people.

    We seem to have a repeat of a long running theme:
    Everyone wants to play on base X instead of bases A, B, and C so it throws off the larger map game.
    But instead of fixing bases A,B, and C so they are more fun, they instead mess with base X.

    When the changes are complete, sure less people play at X. But not because ABC are better. The game as a whole is less fun to play. So we continue on playing base ABC. Dev gets the impression they "solved" the base X problem when they didn't.

    If new content is needed, make new content. Don't wreck the old content just because it's the easier way to do it.

    I hope we aren't struggling from some Ego. Be willing to admit when a change isn't working and revert it. And don't beat yourself up about it or let it stop you from trying again.
    • Up x 1
  2. LodeTria

    That all applied to multi-point based anyway, which are also the hardest bases to take. Tho they at least tried to patch the whole defenders can instantly wipe out progress in todays patch.
  3. JibbaJabba

    It's not the same. Previously you could for example take West Pass Watchtower by simply holding B and C. Overwhelming force would make it go fast by taking the tower with A point.

    Now you cannot take West Pass by holding the B and C "capture points". The fight would just stagnate forever. And this is what seems to happen. Attackers stagnate with no real progress until finally defenders wipe their spawns. OR Attackers show up with enough force to win which turns the fight almost instantly into a spawn camp.

    It really and truly sucks. And worse it wasn't broken before. It was fun before.

    The patch coming out today is a good fix for sure. But it won't make the difference.

    West Pass and nearly every other base that's been converted to CTF is worse now than before. The game is literally less fun after this patch.
    • Up x 1
  4. LodeTria

    Using westpass as an exmaple, you never "simply" held B & C at all, it would always result in one of those points getting taken back by the defenders resulting in no attacker progress. Westpass always needed to be a) cut off to prevent spawns or b) massive hell zerg to hold the tower and hope the defenders don't spawn in.

    Almost all of the problems with CTF already existed in multi-point bases, being divded force and all that. The new problem was easy resets by defenders. Wether or not the new patch will help is anyones guess.

    The only benefit to the new system is that terrible bases that extremely favoured the defenders can be taken quicker before the defenders can react.

    Would I say this a improvement? Probably more of a side-grade than positive or negative.
  5. AuricStarSand

    TBH those are the only bases that CTF is worth having at. " Big fights with bodyguards "

    The bastion with ctf would be okay if we were running around B point. I previously said they should only focus the west wall. Yet I was wrong as noobs only know how to park at the east side of the Bastion. So where it's at is fine. I wouldn't say the old point system was better for the Bastion, as only B point had good fights. I was not a fan of C, nor was anyone, everyone ignores C.

    So yes CTF is only good for bases that get 48vs48 or 96vs96.

    Why not smaller bases? Well I was at Hunters blind & even tho the run length for the flag isn't far, it's like 20 yards. i realized something. You do not want capture the flag at small fight ninja bases. Why is that? Well Hunters Blind is ignored due to its link positions as always. So I had to drive my sunderer there yesterday to solo set shop. Then run to the jumppad. Then run to the flag room. By the time you do all that driving solo as the main sunderer or ninja'er, you don't want to then run some more as a flag runner. It's just too much running for any ninja fellow.

    Tried the flag as Splitpeak pass, another example of a good base design base that hasn't enough obvious roads or multiple links for a big fights to break out there, without a anvil needing to be dropped first. So ye too much running for the ninja'er. Less big fights happen regularly there & they haven't, less someone anvils rarely, & even then tough to keep troops remained there.

    No way a lone ninja'er wants to run the flag solo 12 times to take Splitpeak. After driving.

    Do I believe flag runs are bad for 48vs48 fights or 96vs96? Well I'm sure most of us replying haven't seen many large fights at CTF facilities yet. So who knows. I'd say if the Bastion had a 48vs48vs48 and they got to run from B to C. Instead of what it is now A to C. Then that'd be better than only fighting at the B building with the regular king of the hill mode there.

    As like I said Ascent tower already has 3 point holds, the bastion doesn't need 3 point holds. Yet then people won't fight at the tower itself? So maybe Bastion needs 2 flags from B to C and #2 flag from A to somewhere else.

    Overall this is a experimental mode. However yes I do believe it only works with bases that have 48vs48's regularly & doesn't work for any base that a lone ninja'er has to set shop & doesn't want to run anymore after arriving.

    Other than that. For big fights, it has the potential to offer more fighting between the points. Where as previously fights only happened at the points. If people are tailing with bodyguards, which again only happens for big fight bases.

    Results: Rid CTF from all bases not known for regular 48vs48's. Rid them from all ninja bases.
    Keep a few CTF's for some well known 48vs48 bases & perfect this mode there.
    Allow the CTF person to use melee swings with the flag & have more hp.

    The mode has me simply just wanting DM mode, yet I don't know how they kickstart DM for a base with zero enemies nearby. However only having DM when factions draw the map, only happens 0.0001% of the time. Yet yes I just want to win a base by shooting the enemy wherever whenever, without having to run to the same point building or run a flag. Obviously only a few DM bases, yet a few are better than zero.

    I asked for CTF lol. hah. Yet now I understand why it works for Halo infinite, as Halo Infinite was lane verse lane, narrow map, with vehicles at your starting area for obvious team driver helpers.

    As for CTF yes, it's easily fixed for a few 48vs48 bases, just not ninja small ignored bases, or else the ninja'er has to run too often. As far as people saying keep PS2 original or some remark regarding king of the hill only? naw I don't agree, it's fine for them to test new modes. & I'd still be fine with other modes where players hack turrets & stuff to win the base. Or a DM mode with free use of region droppods and gifted steele rains.

    Imagine a dm region, fighting soldiers around mountains, where infantry get to pick on the map where they want their droppod dropped, for every death, & then wasd droppod navigate through the air as well before land hover.
  6. AuricStarSand

    As far as devs testing the modes. How about just add the new mode to 2 bases & see how players view that.
    Before editing 20 bases for the mode. Perhaps the test server isn't enough feedback either.

    & determining separately how ninja'ers view the mode & how big battle fans view.
  7. Botji

    I cant be arsed to explain what should at this point be very easy to understand reasons and obvious logic so sure, lets go with that thing you said.

    If you are lucky someone else will waste some of their time to explain things for you but seeing how the first attempt was made and it still flew so high over your head it had to be shot down by some AA missile, I wouldnt hold my breath.
  8. LodeTria

    I look forward to you trying to explain how defenders having to hold less objectives doesn't apply to every single multipoint base.
    I also look forward to you trying to explain how defenders only have to focus 1 point and wipe the attackers doesn't apply to every multipoint base.

    These problems always existed, people just liked the overwhelming defensive advantages of multi-point bases.
  9. JibbaJabba

    So the folks in favor...

    You all seem to have a lot of "conditions".

    It works when this...
    or It works when that...
    or It would be fine if...

    I don't hear anyone saying "it's great let's keep it just how it is"

    I definitely don't hear anyone saying "oh it's better than the design the base previously had". Please correct me if I'm wrong here.

    Is anyone SO in favor of this that they're like, "oh it's just too much fun.. we should keep it even if it makes people quit"?

    • Up x 2
  10. Botji

    See this is exactly why I did not explain, you cant even read.
    Literally said I would not bother explaining and here you are waiting for me to explain, thanks for confirming it though.
  11. melioa

    CTF has to be the poorest update/patch that they have released.

    i believe a certain Dev is letting his ego dictate stuff that is implemented into the game, and acting to proud to ever admit he messed up....yet again!

    he should swallow his pride, and stop trying to reinvent the wheel, and actually listen to we...'the players' and take note of what we 'the players' actually want in the game, not what his 'Ego' says what we want. :mad:
    • Up x 1
  12. AuricStarSand

    A sandbox game is a sandbox game. Room for anything everything. PS2 has many items, new maps, & features that PS1 didn't have. PS1 even tried to reinvent the wheel, bfr's, beyond tribes.

    If they never tried to reinvent the wheel to begin with, ps1 wouldn't have happened & you'd be stuck with another Counter Strike lobby game.

    As far as CTF, yes it works for a few 48vs48 fights, esp after some editing seasons. It's just not good for ninja bases. Works fine for 48vs48 fights, if they don't skip a 2nd floor building favorite.

    The flag has to have some speed jump boost & more hp if CTF is for 48vs48's. Entertain the runner. & melee swing.

    CTF is not worst than amp stations. Amp stations are worst. Barely anyone fights along the walls. Run to 4 generators & tell me how that is. While some enemy engi resets them.
  13. Demigan

    Not very well thought out.

    I've advocated for CTF for literal years now, but also pointed out that you want to try and make the fight somewhat equal. For example the attackers have to capture a flag, but the defenders can only remove captures by stealing it back, giving them more equal ground to cover. This also prevents the attackers having a massive advantage in the event defenders cannot reset the flag captures (early version the devs suggested) or the defenders get a massive advantage if all flag captures can be reset by simply holding the area for a short time (version we had).

    I also suggested that CTF should not be stuck to just a few bases, as that would limit the effect it would have on the overall game. Its supposed to add variety, so any base should be randomly assinged to KotH or CTF after each continent lock.

    I also suggested other CTF variants that have different stakes for the attacker/defenders. For example you need to grab/buy a flag and bring it to the points to cap a point. Or instead of stealing a flag and bringing it back, you need to bring a flag to the enemy. It creates more cooperation and VIP gameplay as the common goal is to get the one guy through, rather than have everyone try and if one character manages to grab a flag all he needs to do is get to his frontline and he's pretty safe.

    You can also make flags have purposes outside of CTF, especially handy if you indeed randomly assign bases to different capture mechanics. Flags could be used to power local advantages, like powering shieldwalls, mini citadel shields that block easymode tactics, faction drop-pod beacons etc.

    They went for just about the minimum they could do with CTF.
  14. Ikarius77

    Indar Ex, West Pass, Bastion, Crux... ...

    I'm not going to say that those bases were perfect before... but tell me just one who has improved with this mechanic.

    and we are talking about some of the most popular bases in the entire game.

    • Up x 1