[Thought Exercise] So what if they DID remove MAX?

Discussion in 'MAX' started by Kiddneey, Dec 19, 2016.

  1. Kiddneey

    Thought exercise. So let's say that Daybreak bites the bullet, so to speak, and removes the MAX due to it's irrelevance and community derision (not a 'proper' class, 'skillsuit', 'fightwrecker', etc etc). Other classes are fleshed out to fulfil the minor niches that MAX tried to fill (AA, AV). Infantry-type tanks are now removed and people stop complaining on both sides of the fence.

    Let's also say that any DBC that you spent on your MAX, as well as certs spent, are fully refunded so you've lost nothing.

    Assuming you are a frequent MAX user and not just here to stir up irritation, how would you feel about it being removed? Would it meaningfully impact your enjoyment of the game? Would you not care, would you quit playing, are you 50-50? Share your thoughts below.
  2. RRRIV

    in a perfect world, we would be fine, and this would happen as you state it. Reality is, its not a perfect world. the MAX fills a much needed "tanky" infantry section aswell as being an infantry's best bet at AV(seeing as how a max can have both an AV tank weapon and an AV air weapon, as a heavy can only hit one at a time). a HA cant soak up nearly as much damage as a MAX, meaning those last minuite CP saves where MAXs crash in and draw the agro would fail, as HAs are easily mowed down.

    would i quit? probably, but this would just be a factor adding to my frustration with the game, rather than the sole reason for my leave.
    • Up x 1
  3. LaughingDead

    No bursters, no ravens, fractures, and vortex, no comets, falcons and punders.
    On the flip, defenses would almost always be a joke to grenades, or just general AoE spam from heavies.
    Overall I think people don't appreciate the max for what it can do and only for what it stops them from doing.
    Infantry would have to use vehicles to fight vehicles or 100% more heavy spam. There would be a lot more EMP win infils for chokes and point holds considering nothing except implants would stop them.

    To be perfectly honest maxes are just slightly beefed up infantry. You pool about 5x more HP into one infantry and can only hipfire with subpar weapons that only together total up to a moderately ok infantry weapon? k. I'll just use rockets/c4/nades/rocklets/bullets/range to win. Only time maxes are truly powerful is with other infantry.
    • Up x 1
  4. entity009

    Removing maxes would greatly hurt the value of engies in infantry combat.
    • Up x 4
  5. MrMinistry30

    As someone who hates MAXes (in their current state), even i would not remove them from the game. They just need to be adjusted to a proper rate (please excuse me if i don't find the 100% right words here but i think you know what i mean) between ressource cost, LETHALITY (i am looking at you, NC MAXes...) and durablity.
    TR and VS MAXes are not really good for a battle but you have at least a chance against them at any range if there is not a whole pack of them rushing in.

    Their AV capabilities need some adjustments, too because for me, it just doesn't seem right that they stand on a hill a few hundred meters away and snipe stuff with guided rockets or charged laser beams.

    Considering AA, MAXes are a joke (just like the other AA options in this game). In fact, they are so weak in this field that the game would not really lack something if this would be taken away. If they are to be a factor here, they need some serious buff in that department.
  6. Eternaloptimist

    Make all factions short range AI like the NC Max. Room breaching and mid range AV should be their only role. No more of this sitting on a hill surrounded by ammo packs and engies, spamming enemy infantry at medium to long range. It is not that effective anyway imho.
  7. Problem Officer

    It would get replaced by something stronger, then cried about by the same bads that can't get the certs or wrap their heads around the numerous convenient counters provided specifically for them.
    Play any class, every class has an explosive combo and/or ranged AV that MAX can't 1v1, Infil has radar while MAX has no darklight and no speed, not even Charge anymore. Any trouble you're having comes down to not using the weapons provided.
    Use your head, use VR, use rental, use your certs instead of reading "lol skillsuits" in /yell chat.
  8. Makora

    Truthfully, nothing much would change within the overall meta. I have been playing this game for a long time and it has become incredibly dull. I have always enjoyed the MAX. Not for the damage output, for it isn't anything to write home about. Not for the survival though tankyness is greater then that of an infantryman, the overall survival capacity is lower, owing to the laughably idiotic damage out and mobility. But the FEEL of it. It feels, "chunky".
    So I would find even less reason to log back into the game. I probably would, but far less.

    I get your point. I too would prefer MAX's get a proper rework, but that would require an overhaul of the entire concept not just the stats. Important questions need to be asked, like what is the EXACT nature and purpose of a MAX. Not some wishy-washy "cool mech suit! what can it do?"

    If they are to be siegebreakers and nothing else then all they need would be the removal of ranged weapons, far greater health and armor stats and you're done. Their purpose would be nothing more then to get in and wreak havoc. Or act as mobile cover in open areas. They offensive capability being completely dependent on the other soldiers taking cover behind it.
    If they are to be damage multipliers to a squad then their tankyness should be reduced but their damage output should be, depending on loadout, equal or greater to that of an HA against infantry or vehicles. They are there for the firepower, not for point-defense and siege. Being completely dependent on other soldiers to keep the MAX alive while it puts down fire.
    If they are to simply be "powerups" then their damage can remain sub-par and only twice as survivable as a HA. but their price needs to go down considerably. Essentially it'd be a throw-away upgrade, much like a Flash to the vast majority of the players.

    And the follow-up question is if any of those tasks could be filled by currently existing classes, but with say a new tool or weapon. Currently, MAX's bring nothing to the table and they can only get worse simply because of the horrible, broken and utterly idiotic design concept they are stuck in.
  9. Nakor

    Removing the MAX would be a mistake because it adds a some badly needed variety to the infantry play in this game. That being said, it's pretty bad in it's currently state and needs a rework.

    I think the only thing you could realistically do to the MAX in this game would be to turn it into a support platform. Having it be a weapons/combat platform that costs resources just doesn't work with ambush-oriented combat where your network latency is 25-80% of your TTK. If it's more powerful than infantry -worth the resources- it gets spammed and becomes the de facto infantry unit. If it's not powerful then it's just a waste of resources and unsatisfying to use with almost no room for a happy middle ground.

    I'd fix the MAX by giving it a significant health boost, stripping it down to a single gun and giving it infantry support modules that don't overlap with existing items in the game, but that give it a role that provides some much needed variety and balance.

    Some examples:
    1) A largish AOE bubble that significantly buffs the MAX's explosion resistance and reduces explosion radius for any rounds landing inside it for foot zergs in the field. -Then you could actually give HE weapons a splash radius that's... you know, useful!
    2) A smaller (medic shield booster sized) bubble that gives a flat reduction to small arms damage for everybody inside it. Say 20%.
    3) A plain bubble shield that prevents fire in or out that absorbs X amount of damage
    4) A flat shield sort of like what the NC MAX has, but that is large enough to block a standard Auraxian doorway. -since doors are apparently wizard-magic losttech in PS2.
    5) A bubble that improves recovery time from disabling grenades
    6) Sensor shield bubble
    7) Bubble that provides a shield for deployables -mines/spitfire/motion tracker/shield recharger (imagine a world where spitfires had enough HP go get kills but were still susceptible to EMP and hackable! Actual combat objectives for infils besides crouching in the corner being a PITA!? *GASP*

    Anyway... there's a lot of stuff you could do with the MAX as a support asset. If that stuff sounds OP, there are ways to mitigate it. A module battery that takes time to recharge or just give the bubbles collision with each other so MAXs cannot overlap bubbles.

    That way group play would have more depth and options without the ability to just spam MAXs with overlapping shields everywhere. MAX formations would become a thing. Who knows, it could be fun and a renewable source of HA meta-queen tears :-D
  10. Mojo_man

    If you add up all the time I've spent in a MAX across ALL the characters I have, it comes out to be less than .1% of my total playtime of the game. Literally. So safe to say I wouldn't really be upset about having the class pulled out from under us. I would probably be pretty happy about the change if I'm completely honest. I've recently tried to migrate out of a primarily MBT Driver role and have just begun to get my legs as an infantry player. I can't pretend I've not been frustrated by having Infantry fights ground to an absolute halt because there are 6+ maxes locking a building down and making it unassailable by any force that isn't 10x their size.

    I've been pretty public in the past with my opinions that C4 is incredibly overpowered in its current form. But that said, MAX walls are one of the few reasons I can still see it having positive impacts on gameplay as it's the only semi-realistic way to deal with large groups of maxes in a purely infantry capacity.

    The point I'm trying to get at here is that as someone who rarely plays a MAX (even though I've bought 2x Ravens, 2x Hacksaws, 1x bursters for all 3 factions, 1x Scattercannon, 1x Mutilator, 2x Fractures, and some other stuff on the VS one I can't remember, as well as fully certed out Aegis sheild, Lockdown, AND ZOE) and frequently gets frustrated by their presence, I'd love to have back all my money\certs.
  11. Weylin

    I just want to know why MAX costs more nanites than a MBT
  12. TR5L4Y3R

    maxes can do what vehicles don't transisting "heavy firepower" from outside to indoor and vise versa ...

    gorgons are basillisks , burster = ranger, max esav weapons are like the mbt default weapons respectively figurratively speaking ...
  13. Corezer

    Removing AI max unites from the game wouldn't change much.

    If u removed bursters the game would be infinitely more annoying

    if u removed AV it would be near impossible to stop a dedicated assault on a base since people cant seem to fathom pulling a ****ing tank...
    • Up x 1
  14. ListenTourBalls

    As a recently new player I wasn't aware some people didn't like max units. I'm not convinced that they are "useless" or "op", a strange combination of complaints. I am also not convinced that removing them would be of any benefit, only detriment because why remove features from the game? Such actions are usually considered a bad idea not only in this game but any product usually.

    I would also add that I don't want to write out a whole explanation but max units to me clearly have a role in battle, and help add variety to gameplay. Not to mention they are in my opinion encouraging team play due to their need for supporting engineers and other classes to watch their back while they focus their firepower on one targer
    • Up x 3
  15. TR5L4Y3R

    maxes can be revived, vehicles not ... and inside a building the max is the most powerfull forcemultiplyer which most vehicles simply can't enter .. other than that maxes being infantry can resuply from any infantry terminal and sunderer and use most vehicles for transport making them actualy quite a very versatile unit imo ... so the cost isn't that unjustified
    • Up x 2
  16. Campagne

    I wouldn't say to remove them if it was my decision, --Probably not, anyway.-- but I would change the way they play.

    I'd make their guns a lot weaker and increase their health pool by a bit. Personally, I think they are currently quite overpowered and are certainly abused to no end. Ideally such a change (perhaps among many others) would make the MAX role of a support position. They would provide a large volume of fire for assisting and suppressing and would block incoming fire for their allies.

    Though, I'm absolutely sure that MAXes would become exceptionally rare. This would of course be due to the fact that absolutely no one in this entire game could possibly even comprehend the idea of supporting one's team and allies. The weaker guns would put off the rest of the players favouring personal achievements over faction achievements. Regardless, if done right they could be useful in this way. :p
  17. Weylin

    If they were free, had weak as **** weapons, and improved armor, I would probably use them non-stop, as that kind of set up is preferable for someone like me with no physical ability to aim guns well. I just need a class that has a wide cone of fire on its weapons, or slow moving blast projectiles