This is what PS2 is like to a new player

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by disgruntled newbie, Nov 6, 2013.

  1. disgruntled newbie

    I give feedback on almost every game I play.

    This is not a request for help. This is not an invitation to demonstrate poor social skills. Maybe somebody cares. More likely not. But after I do this I can uninstall with a sense of having given the game its fair shake and seeing what it had to offer.

    So in no particular order, these are the things that make the strongest impression for me.


    1.) Spawn camping was scientifically proven to be a completely stupid thing to have in your game circa 2002. And yet, here we are in 2013, and there's a dozen tanks spamming AOE shells at our base so that it is literally impossible to set one toe outside without dying instantly. You can spawn somewhere else, but then that is basically the same as conceding the spawn-camped location to the enemy. Way to go.

    2.) Your hitboxes and/or netcode are flaky and unreliable. I've had people shoot me around corners while I'm trying to set up a turret, heck, I've had people shoot me around corners over a full second after leaving their line of sight. Judging by how often projectiles *visually* go through objects, it wouldn't surprise me if the hit detection engine is just as quality.

    3.) You love vehicles in your game, but you have two realistic ways for infantry to kill them: both methods locked behind very high experience costs, and neither method being all that effective at actually holding off enemy vehicles. You could get a vehicle to fight the enemy vehicles...occasionally... If whatever makes your resources add up makes them add up fast enough to get you a vehicle when you need one...

    4.) Classes are TOO well defined. I can't go a minute without thinking "Huh, I wish I could __". It seems obvious that the designers built this thing around aggregate balance for squads but then you have issues like being able to jetpack, where practically speaking you need a bunch of people all jetpacking to make it a worthwhile thing to plan around. But then you have no ammo or healing in your jetpack squad which means your combat endurance is negligible, and... yeah. Roles are too rigidly enforced.

    5.) Squads are clumsy to use and your in-game voice chat stepped right out of the same time vortex that your spawn camping did. The quality is so bad that voice chat is WORSE than useless. At least if you turn it off, you're not laboring under the false impression that it will ever do you any good.

    6.) Abilities and mechanics are poorly balanced. Here's a deployable gun turret. It does less damage than your main weapon, and immobilizes you so you are easy prey to anything and everything that decides to shoot at you. Here is a way to revive other players. It takes so long to work that 95% of the time you're just an underpowered rifleman instead of a medic. Here is an anti-tank fixed emplacement to protect your base. It will last about 2 seconds once you open fire, and nobody can repair it because whoever designed the base is an idiot and there's snipers everywhere.


    Apparently I should have listened to all of my friends, who, when I tried to talk to them about Planetside 2, said that they weren't interested and that it didn't look very good. My takeaway impression is one of a poorly optimized and buggy game that should have spent at least another year in design and development.
    • Up x 13
  2. Badname707

    1.) Yes, yes it is. If you are being spawn camped, you've lost the fight. The remaining timer gives you time to prepare at the next base, or muster up a counter attack.

    2.) Fair point, though it's hard to say how much this could be improved in a game of this scale.

    3.) The current balance is in favor of infantry right now. Vehicles aren't so strong individually.

    4.) I like how each class has a speciality, but I agree that there should be some overlap, at least the potential for it. I'd love to get a revive injector for my LA, so that I can run an LA squad without it getting whittled away and forcing people to play catch up. Don't agree with everything, but mostly good point here.

    5.) SOE could definitely improve here. A fair point.

    6.) In short, no. At least the examples you used.

    7.?) Should have spent longer in development, but if it came down to releasing or scrapping the game, I'm glad they made the choice they did.

    Okay bai now.
    • Up x 15
  3. Boomotang

    1.) It's called losing a battle. It happens every now and then in a war...

    Of course you have to deploy somewhere else.

    There is no time limit in PS2. It goes on and on. You have to decide for yourself when a battle is over or when you need to counter attack from a different location. If you keep running into enemy bullets, it's not the game's fault.

    3.) There are many ways to destroy vehicles. If you don't have one unlocked, like C4, you can be sure one of your nearby teammates does. You are playing close to allies yes?

    4.) This is a strength of a team based game. You ARE playing close to allies and not lone wolfing right? If you want to be a one man army, obviously you've come to the wrong game. Yes, if you go too far off as LA you can run dry. But you can also use your jetpack to get back to your forces' supplies. I do it all the time.

    5.) Press insert to automatically join a squad. They show up on your map and on your screen. You're connected instantly via voice chat. You can deploy on the freaking squad leader. What's clumsy about that?

    I've never had any problems with proximity chat, squad chat, or platoon chat. Features which are extremely useful in a game like this, and a lot of people actually use them. I've heard other people have issues with it, but not anything close to what you're saying.

    It seems like you don't want to take the time to learn a game that requires a little more thinking than your standard FPS. You don't even say how long you tried it out for. Fair shake I think not.
    • Up x 7
  4. DashRendar

    See ya. Let us know how CoD/BF4 turn out. I'm dying to know.
    • Up x 2
  5. TheBloodEagle

    About #6

    The game has that RPG factor, you can upgrade the Medics tools to heal faster. Many aspects of the game have cert lines for specialization. Engineers can fix those turrets. They're meant to be a first line of defense, not the main defense. I kinda agree about the Mana Turret (Engineer) but it's very good inside of buildings for covering doors and corridors.
    • Up x 2
  6. EmmettLBrown

    #1 is always a silly complaint. You have a map. If you're locked into the spawn, it's time to deploy at the next base over and mount a counter attack. Every time I see a MAX/engineer/medic team "defending" the spawn room I think they're either stupid or just farming kills before the base is taken.
    • Up x 2
  7. wolfva

    Most of the OPs complaints are just personal preferences. Many of them would become moot if he had decided to stick it out a few days and get used to PS2 instead of apparently demanding it be like some other game. Which is a problem I've noticed with a number of gamers...they get a new game, but they refuse to judge it by ITS merits, and instead insist on it being like the game they're used to <shrug>. Ah well. Not every game is for every person.

    As far as the hit box problems go....I always wonder HOW people know someone is killing them from around a corner? I'd hazard a guess most of those kills the guy was behind or above him, with him in direct LOS. He just assumed they were behind the corner because he couldn't see them, or he saw someone else's ricochets and thought they were his killer's rounds. Not that I'm saying such things DON'T happen; they do. But often it seems to be a latency problem on the player's side, not the games. Perhaps he should quit downloading donkey dwarf **** while playing? <rimshot>
    • Up x 4
  8. Mustarde

    So, OP. Here's my take on your new player experience:

    This game has been around almost a year - just about every server you play on will have outfits that have matured into high cert/level players with fairly standardized loadouts and tactics for various fights. It makes the learning curve for anyone entering the game just a little bit steeper. I feel bad for most BR1's I kill who clearly don't know much about the game, and sometimes I'll try to pull them aside in a chat and see if I can offer any help.

    As for your complaints, I think at least some of it comes down to having a low BR/cert count - for example as someone else mentioned, the medic can be upgraded so its healing ability is near game-breakingly fast. And several of their weapons will make other classes cry with envy (TAR, H-V45 off the top of my head).

    And with the right weapon upgrades, such as lock on rocket launchers and the AV mana turret, infantry are downright dominant against vehicles. It's probably hard to appreciate that without using these weapons yourself.

    I think the class specializations are fine imo - utilities like medkits can increase the longevity of your soldier even without a medic nearby. And everyone can carry c4(except for infils). Everyone has access to SMG's and shotguns (except infils). You'll find similar specializations and similarities between classes in BF4.

    I agree with your points on the fixed AV base turrets - I've always thought they die way too easily considering they can't be moved and take quite a bit to repair. The netcode issue - it's more about client-side hit detection. And while it can lead to some odd behavior, it is much better than the alternative server side hit detection, in which case we'd be aiming at shadows trying to guess where the targets actually are vs. where they appear on our screens. No thank you.

    I think the most important thing missing from your planetside experience is joining an outfit. A good outfit. One that has experienced players, organized squads, and preferably teamspeak/vent. Because that is where planetside truly is allowed to shine, and where many of your frustrations can be cancelled out. If you do decide not to uninstall the game, despite the trolls that will pop up in this thread, look for an outfit on the recruiting boards here for your server/faction and see who can help you out. Or just tell us on this thread where you were and perhaps someone will send you an invite. Outfits are the difference for many people in this game, myself included.

    Sorry for the rough new player experience. Hopefully this response helps.
    • Up x 5
  9. Czuuk

    Enjoy moar 16v16 instances.
    • Up x 1
  10. Meeka

    You expect PS2 to be a clone of every other game out there.

    It's not.

    There's a learning curve, you're obviously unwilling to go through it.

    Some people are more suited to simple games like CoD or BF... Planetside takes a fair bit of thought to play.
    • Up x 3
  11. soeguud

    NO CLASS SYNERGY.
  12. soeguud

    You're deluded if you believe that.

    Planetside's base capture system is virtually identical to Battlefield's Conquest, but far closer to the generic Domination gametype seen in virtually every arena shooter ever.

    Planetside is not original. Aesthetics and design are beyond terrible; and I'd liken it to late 20th century Battlezone games, which were butt ugly. If it weren't for the scale, I'd be playing Battlefield. Wait, I do play Battlefield. I wept when the game ran smooth as butter without having to fudge with config files.
    • Up x 1
  13. Badname707

    Can't be that great if you're still here.
    • Up x 2
  14. soeguud

    It really isn't :( but it's Battlefield and thanks to the CoD leanings you don't feel the grind too bad like you would have back in Battlefield 2, but in that time playing casually, what mattered was the win screen, and grind was a foreign concept.

    Planetside 2 has its moments, and epic fights were had with epic numbers, but it's irksome to encounter someone who considers Planetside 2 to be 'original' by any stretch of the term.
    • Up x 1
  15. Badname707

    Original in design? No. Unique would be a better word, but honestly the semantics of it is pretty irrelevant.
    • Up x 3
  16. Xasapis

    Regarding spawn camping:
    I will try to relay a bit of understanding on how a base can be attacked or defended, so you can understand if your situation is hopeless or you can still push the attackers.
    • No matter how many vehicles the attackers have, they need infantry on the point to hold it. This is crucial, because you can keep a vastly bigger force outside your base if you can keep their infantry reinforcements away. As long as their sunderers die fast, they will never gain a foothold.
    • If you can not contain the attackers, then it becomes a numbers game. In most cases you will need a roughly equal force to hold attackers back. Again the target is their spawn point.
    • If they managed to lock you into the spawn point and you can't destroy the sunderers, the base defense is basically lost, at least from the inside. In this case you can do a few things. Spawn vehicles and go into a backstubbing run against their spawn point (both ground and air works). Another thing you can do is set a anti vehicle nest that will destroy as many vehicles they can before they transit into the next base. The last thing is merely spawn to the next base in line and try to defend there. Any of the above scenarios are dependent on how strong the defense of your empire is on that side of the map and how strong the strategic thinking of your empire is. You don't need a lot of people to set up an AV nest, but you do need a bit of coordination.
    • The most important thing you need to remember is that, unlike other shooters out there, you can't carry your team, no matter how good you think you are. So, don't frustrate yourself by trying to do just that. Instead, try to assist your team in their effort in the best of your abilities. You'll soon realise that if everyone is doing the same, the quality of the whole effort increases.
    Regarding netcode:
    Netcode for the most part is ok. There are some hit detection issues in very large battles, but these days are somewhat rare (I'm killing people even if the hit indication doesn't light up).

    The other thing, and it's a big thing, you need to be aware of, is that hit detection is client side. There are videos out there that demonstrate this, but basically what happens in your screen is slightly different than what happens in their screen. The pros is that you don't need to lead shots like you would do in server side hit detection, nor will your shots disappear due to client/server lag. The cons are ... numerous. Basically you can hit people that in your screen are not yet behind cover but in theirs they are. Moving out of cover on the other hand doesn't register as fast in the enemy screen so you can surprise people that are stationary lurking behind cover. The following video will give you a better idea on what is going on and how you can "game" the system a bit. Just keep in mind that sometimes you'll find yourself in advantageous position and sometimes the enemy will, so the balance is in there somewhere.



    Regarding vehicles:
    They require some form of investment to both utilise them in their full potential and also destroy them as infantry. The only infantry class that can hurt vehicles with zero certs invested is the heavy assault, but even then, you'll still need to get used to the projectile velocity and drop and the speed and prediction of the enemy vehicles.
    (0 cert cost)

    Second best (and cheapest) is probably AV mines, since most vehicles do not pack anti mine protection. Again, you will need some experience on how to approach a vehicle undetected or where to place them so they hit a vehicle. Keep in mind that AV mines don't explode unless they detect movement or you shoot them yourself (or throw a grenade at them or any damage really).
    (100 certs)

    Lock on rockets are cheaper than some other options as well. Anti air lock on rockets work very well, just keep in mind that the first rocket you will fire will probably get flared, which leaves an opening for friendlies to fire rockets that won't be flared or your second lock on to hit, if the aircraft insists on staying in the area. Alternatively for vehicles, you can get the second hand of the AV MAX unit.
    (250 certs)

    Most classes can carry C4. Two sticks of those will destroy every vehicle, except a sunderer, which will put it on fire (if not certed with a certain module). Fire means it will blow up in 15 seconds if not repaired. This is the bread and butter of Light Assault and not just for vehicles, but almost every class (except infiltrator) can carry.
    (700 certs)

    The most versatile options are also the most expensive. Different kind of launchers for each empire. Better MAX AV weapons, both air and ground (Bursters for air, different names for different empires for ground). The best vehicle flak gun in the game, Skyguard on a Lightning tank. The anti vehicle mana turret for the engineer. Secondary weapons for your main battle tank and so on. AA or AG missiles on ESFs (Empire Specific Fighter planes). Some of those become even more effective the more certs you put on them (added optics, added ammo etc).
    (1000 certs base cost)

    Regarding classes:
    You are partially right. Classes are very rigidly defined when you begin the game and you will only open up your options the more certs you put into their abilities. For example:
    • All classes can self heal in the form of med kits
    • All classes (with the exception of infiltrator) can use C4 to destroy vehicles, turrets or take down MAXes.
    Still, some classes are better suited for certain things than others (Heavies to assault, medics to heal and rezz, light assaults to assault from unexpected angles and infiltrators to either snipe or kill from close range.

    The bottom line is that this game is meant to be played on a squad based level, even if no real squad is set up. Personally, when I see that no ammo is dropped, I switch to engineer, if no medics are reviving people, I switch to medic and so on. I do however have certed numerous classes so I can be good at multiple roles, something a new player won't be able or is expected to be able to.

    You'll need to see this game as part mmo. In Skyrim you can raise all abilities at once, but won't it make sense to raise your crucial ones first and once you are satisfied to diversify?

    Regarding game chat:
    I still use TS or some other outside chat client for the bulk of my communication. In game chat is only for emergencies really, like when I want to relay a crucial information to my random player gunning my vehicle. Some people use it for platoon commanding, but I find that it is too reliant on the quality of the microphone you're using.

    Regarding the other general issues you mentioned:
    • Knowing where to put your anti infantry mana turret is a small art in itself. So many times I've seen engineers put one in direct LOS to the enemy spawn point. Mana turrets need to be put in places where your team will cover your blind spots and you won't be easily sniped by enemy infiltrators. Also in spots where grenades wont bounce around, like in a corner. In some cases, the turret is better used as a deployable cover than an actual turret.
    • Cert 1 revive gun takes eon to revive somebody, the range is small and he gets up with only a portion of his health (and a lot of medics don't bother to fill it up, but just go for the next revive). A fully certed med gun has quite large range, revives somebody to 100% in about a second. I can often revive three people in the time it takes others to revive one and my revives are all at full health. Bottom line, a good dedicated medic has a revive gun of at least tier 3. Also the assault rifles of the medic are among the most accurate and strong guns in the game. It's just sad that most medics run around like headless chicken only looking to revive people ignoring all enemy activity.
    • Never stand still. Ever. Always dance around, whether you're repairing something, reviving somebody or just merely looking for targets and picking out of cover. Even then, some people are that good snipers that will get you. No need to make it easier for them though.
    • Base gun emplacements are meant to complement the other defense measures. By themselves are pretty weak and exposed.

    This game is not your base FPS that you hop in and shoot with impunity. There is a very strong mmo presence that you need to be aware of, the amount of people per map make things infinitely more difficult than other games (if you think 64vs64 is chaos, you should try 300vs300vs300 in some massive cluster fights, and the different bases on different maps making learning your environment a lengthy process. The game is very rewarding though, once you invest yourself a bit deeper and get past the monolithic nature of other games. This is not just an FPS, or an MMO or an RTS, but all three in one. The game definitely has it's issues, but it also definitely has it's moments of glory.
    • Up x 4
  17. Spartan 117

    Agree with the OP on all accounts. His complaint regarding spawn camping is completely justified. It was a "very very very very" poor decision for SOE to have spawns above ground, separated from the capping point where the moment vehicles get into position the battle is already over.

    In PS1 vehicular combat was only the first phase of capturing a base. You then had to man up, step out of said vehicle & push inside to secure the facility. Doesn't exist in PS2 & the game play suffers horribly as a result.
    • Up x 8
  18. Rivenshield


    I concur. With every syllable.
  19. wolfva

    Actually, PS2 is based on PS1 which in turn was based on Tribes2 (several of their Devs went on to design PS1). All FPSs have a similarity based on the fact that they involve:
    1) people with weapons
    2) fighting each other
    3) over objectives

    OMG! It's not original! HEAVENS FORBID! Well, nothing really is, INCLUDING Battlefield Conquest which most likely has quite a bit of influence from PS1.

    The curious thing is why do people feel the need to visit forums of games they despise solely to lambast those games for not being what THEY want while crowing about how perfect some other game is? Is it because you need validation that what you like is a good thing? Or you need to justify to others why you make the decisions you made? Is your self esteem so low that you can't just accept different people like different things and go off to do what YOU like without trying to insult everyone else who likes something different? Frankly, it's childish AND trollish. Which, of course, some people just are. Guess you can't fault people for acting like what they are, eh?
    • Up x 1
  20. JonboyX

    1.) Yes - also a gripe of mine. The real issue is defenders being invulnerable behind the spawn shield and not having some kind of 'purge' option.

    2.) The bullets that you see go through buildings don't do anyone any damage; it's a visual glitch. The quality of CSHD though is fairly amazing for a 2000 player map; sure on occasion you think you escaped... but not on their screen. It works both ways; but relatively few deaths occur this way.

    3.) Rockets are free and infinite. If a tank column comes down the line, then yes, it's going to be hard to get rid of them. The only really unbalanced vehicles are ESFs (harassers are about to be nerfed), but you have to put a serious amount of time in to them to get good enough for them to be that way.

    4.) Classes are more rigid than PS1 for sure, but too rigid? Really? Compared to.... which game? Every class is AI combat ready; at short, medium and long range. Every class has access to AV. Every class can drive/pilot/or gun vehicles. Every class apart from Max has grenades. If anything, you can do too much with some classes. Light assaults are a bad example to use, as these are a class designed for solo play and/or flanking manoeuvres. Being able to go off piste also means you're going in alone.

    5.) Yes. The squad/platoon system is a retrograde step on the first game and clunky as you like. In game voice chat? I turned that off after one day and haven't looked back. It's useful for "pugs" though; and given there might be 1000 people on your "side" the various chat levels are fairly flexible. But really; as someone else said, this is a game geared up to Outfits so you will always use Mumble/Ventrilo/TS3

    6.) Base turrets suffer from being too exposed and not providing a sufficient arc of fire unless they're all manned. Being pre-formed coffins, you're right no one uses them. MANA turrets (the deployable ones) are there for continuous suppression. If you're on your own, then yes, it's going to be useless. That's the problem I think you've encountered here, some weapons are designed to be used in teams. Now; AV deployable turrets... they are broken in being far far too good. But then, they are being patched soon (famous last words).


    "Apparently I should have listened to all of my friends, who, when I tried to talk to them about Planetside 2, said that they weren't interested and that it didn't look very good." What you should do is get all your mates together and all play at the same time. Given that the game is free why wouldn't you? You're playing against players with MONTHS of real in game time in a team, it's going to take a while to catch up. Fortunately, you can catch up in just a few days. Rather than say, a traditional MMO where you've got to max out your character to be truly on a par.