This is how the official PS2 Twitter describes the game.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by NotsiMadz, Feb 11, 2021.

  1. NotsiMadz

    Which is exactly my point.... that's how things were, and it's not how things are.

    And no, he didn't say to the exclusion of anything else. In fact he said the opposite, he said both camps should be satisfied. And he added, in a meaningful way.

    That I can't prove it doesn't mean it is subjective.

    For example, there were no biolab fights that lasted for ever and ever and ever and caused the 2 factions fighting inside them from losing the alert. Now there are. Why? Thanks spawns in biolab.

    That's objectively true, and it's just one of a million illustrations.

    So, one by one.

    Population :

    This chart only goes back to 2015, but it's good enough, In June 2015, there were 3.350 average players worldwide, on all servers. That fluctuates, and if there are indeed 1,000 less tday (2,358 players), there was 4K in last April and March.

    There was 3.2k in January 2017, and so on.

    As to peak players, if it's true that 2015 had almost double the number of peak players, today we have the same as 2017...

    For the outfits, yeah, probably, there's only a handful of outfits competing in outfit wars. Back then, there would have been many many more, but that also (again) proves the point I'm making.

    Yes, the rewards for winning Alerts were better, in fact, it wasn't about certs, it was about obtaining items that could otherwise only be obtained by using In Real Life money. But his, "dude", again proves my point.

    Lastly it's not that people don't care anymore, it isn't that they are less, even if they are less, it's that they care less.

    (quote from my post) Outside of prime time, you'll get squads or platoons here and there doing this too.

    But other than that, at the end of the day, most of what I witness is random mindless players running around like headless chickens, no one trying to win anything at all. Never mind the Alert, or conquering territory, even the fight they are in. (end quote)

    also : 2. Today, what I described above still exists, still happens. Except when it used to be everyone all the time, now it's only for like 3 or 4 hours at prime time, and it's only the outfits and open platoons.

    Yes, it does, at prime time, see above quote.

    That doesn't rarely happen, it's the norm. Why do you think they destroyed Ti Alloys? Even at prime time, a huge portion of players would do this. I'm saying that portion is significantly more important today than it used to be.

    It happens in the Ascent on Amerish, it happens on Watersons and Saerro on Esamir, it happens on Nason's on Hossin, and those are only the big ones.

    As to the level, the thought process that involves camping is : "I know where the enemy is coming from, so I'll wait here in this "strategic" place and ambush him. The thought process for flankig is : "I will take a little more time to go round and shoot the enemy from the side or the back, it will be easier because he's expectin me from the front.

    That's a level of reasoning that is BASIC and on a micro level, same as "if I spawn at a stealth sundy and see a Liberator flying around, I'll shoot at it, cause it's the enemy, I don't THINK that that liberator will shoot back and spot and destroy the stealth sundy" I don't THINK, I just SHOOT, cause I'm a brainless CoD kid.

    On a macro level, same as "we've just taken a base, so where do we go now?" ---> next base, obviously, basic, as opposed to for example "why fight for Dahaka when I can take Dahaka plus 1 other base by taking Ceres which will cut off Dahaka and which has next to zero defenders, or things like "we are being cut off" or even "if we cut off NC at Saerro, then our faction will be fighting BOTH NC and TR, and we don't want that, cause we cant' handle both.

    Winning alerts requires a whole new level of reasoning, a hell of a lot more complexe (and interesting) than your basic FPS "flanking and camping" strategies.

    Playing late at night, and into the early morning used to be my favourite time to play. That's because since a few years, I play solo, and as a solo player, even if you CAN make a difference in high populated environments (for example, you deploy a sundy and lots of players spawn, it's not you winning the fight, it's them, but they wouldn't be here in the first place had you not deployed that sundy, or, opposite example, you kill the enemy sundy, saving the base, that's the kind of thing a good solo player can do that does make a difference.

    But at night, with low pop, how much impact my choices and actions would have become so much more important, I potentially can literally, regularly, on my own, make the difference between victory or failure for my faction. I can literally win an Alert on my own, it happens a lot. That's because I'm not competing with squads and platoons, of experienced players.

    So I have that experience, and it's that experience that allows me to tell you that yeah, it used to be all the time that everyone played to win.

    Little by little, let's say around 6am, people started to care less and less, then that spread to 4am and 7am. Then it became the norm, at those times, no one bothered trying to win.

    But then it continued to spread, from 1am up to 11am, and it continued into the afternoon.

    So it used to be that everyone played the game as intended, played the game with strategy, tactics, teamwork. Now it's just in a very narrow 3-4 window, prime time, that's it. And even then, the balance between what Higby calls "those chasing kills" and "those who want to capture bases" continues to shift in favour of those chasing kills.

    But you didn't ask the real question : "so what? What's the issue? How is it a problem? Everyone can play as they wish."

    And the answer to that is : If the players trying to capture bases and win alerts do not prevent the players chasing kills from enjoying themselves, because players chasing kills can do so in any fight, wherever, whenever, the players chasing kills, when there are too many of them, directly prevent those fighting for their faction from enjoying the game.

    If most of your faction is fighting most of a 2nd faction in a biolab, not caring about anything else, you're left with a minority of your own faction to stand against impossible odds ,fighting against the 3rd faction, and whenever you attack a base, you are instantly outnumbered, and no one from your faction spawns to attack with you, and when you try and save a base, you are always outnumbered, and no one ever comes to help, because they are all in the biolab.

    THATS the issue, sandbox, fine, do whatever, spend 4 hours organising a Harrasser race around the continent, go to the corner of the map and role play with your outfit while making a constuction base miles away from the war, fine. It's all fine, no problem. Until the players who DO wish to play the game as intended simply can not, and are either forced to log off or change faction.
  2. NotsiMadz

    I just thought of something more.

    If we are to assume that "generally speaking", what keeps vets in the game, actively, is more than "simply to fight", but a more meaningful purpose, because after a while, whether it's a few months or more than that, or when it's when the player hits BR ASP 100 and there's no more progression, or whether he or she doesn't have as much free time anymore, whatever the reason, but eventually players will get bored of fighting if there isn't a reason to fight.

    I've know tons of players who only ever logged in on Friday night, to do Friday Night Ops with their outift. That's it, 3 or 4 hours a week, basta. They play like me since 2012, except since a few years, literally only 3 hours a week.....

    So assuming it's true, it would explain why the general BR level is so low. Think about it, this game is 8 years old, when you press TAB during a fight, would you not expect that score board to be filled with BR ASP 100? That's what it's like in all the other MMOs I played, vets everywhere. Not in PS2. In PS2 it's the opposite, new players everywhere !

    So it makes sense : players who look for more than a mindless fight don't stay in the game. New players and more casual players who enjoy the freshness of the game and simply "having a fight" "for fun" make up most of the game's population, by far.

    What THAT means is that the dev's did and are doing a good job of "recruiting" players, but are overlooking something most other MMORPGs, since WoW have understood : end game content, which keeps player in the game for longer time. That's what keeps vets in the game and active for years and years. As a matter of fact, in most MMOs I played, the end game content really was the only content, we would power level our way to the top so we could enjoy it.

    You need something more meaningful, something deeper if you want to keep those players, and I've never heard of an online gaming company who didn't pay particular attention to those players, for lots of reasons which I guess I won't get into now.
  3. Somentine

    Let me put it this way: you don't want people to play the way they want because it doesn't conform to how you want the game to be played. You want Alerts and factions winning territory to be so important that people drop any fun they have in the game to do it.

    No, listen to what i'm saying. It might have been true to you, but what you experience isn't the objective truth. Even to this day, if you play with people that care about Alerts, you will see that there are still people that care about Alerts. If you don't, you will mostly see people who don't care. The only real difference is that there was a higher population.

    There were Biolab fights, I have no idea what you're talking about. A solo person can easily go around, right now, overloading Gens just as fast as a solo player could go around blasting Sunderers parked near the teleporter.

    But let's pretend you were right, there were other bases that fit your description like the Crown, Mesa Skydock, etc., that did the exact same thing.

    Last I checked, having almost 33% more players (1k +) is a big difference in a game all about population.

    Literally no way to prove that.

    No, 'dude', the majority were decals and the rest were basic armour cosmetics. The only unique things were the weapons. It absolutely does not prove your point and it in fact points to how out of touch you are with how and why people played the game.

    Even IF that were true, it wasn't a driving factor, AND now you can buy those very same cosmetics from the very same alert wins. You can ALSO get the weapons that were -only- RNG before.

    Because the rewards for winning don't outweigh the fun and rewards of just playing the game, especially for Veterans (who have most of basic things unlocked). Alerts do not alter the gameplay enough (and shouldn't) to warrant playing the game in ways that kill their fun.

    Furthermore, Alerts require organization to consistently win. It's why VS on Emerald dominates low pop times, but are roughly even on Prime, because they almost always have a SKL platoon running while other factions don't have any.... and it isn't fun.

    Crown, Mesa SkyDock, that one underground map I forgot the name of, etc. and etc. There have always been maps that have done this, your ignorance of them doesn't make it any less true.

    What's funny is that I wasn't just talking about FPS skill level, but you immediately assumed it was. What's even funnier is that you think people back then were better than today, despite literal years of experience.

    BIG LOL at the last sentence. Dude, step out of your little bubble.

    So let me put this in other words:

    If the majority of players are enjoying themselves playing the game a certain way, you want them to stop because you don't like it.

    God, you really hate biolabs lol. Funny how this happens even without Biolabs on Esamir.

    That's the issue, them playing however they want IS playing the game. You are trying to force players to play how YOU want players to play.
  4. NotsiMadz

    I'm questioning your honesty. I'm not saying you're a liar, maybe honesty isn't the right choice of word, but (like a lot of people), it seems like you are arguing for the sake of it.

    So I'll reply to you, to each and every point you made, one by one, as I've always done up to now, only this time probably for the last time.

    This. For example, where did you get that idea?

    I never said that, in fact I repeatedly said I that what I wanted, just like Higby says in the interview I quoted, was for both camps to enjoy themselves.

    That reply you made, is dishonest (or whatever the word is).

    Again, same thing.

    When anyone uses the term "everyone", they don't mean "absolutely everyone, 100%"', it's an expression that means most people.

    Just as "back in the day" there were players who couldn't care less about anything except simply having a fight, there are today people who care about fighting for their faction and helping it achieve victory.

    Biolab fights without spawns NEVER lasted that long. They NEVER became such huge population sinks. They NEVER had such an impact on the continent war.

    That's an obvious fact that anyone with a bit of experience would be forced to admit. The fact that you don't, again, illustrates something like dishonesty.

    Yes there were other bases that did the same thing. Guess what? They fixed it. Why would they fix it? Because it was a problem. Because the devs didn't want this.

    The most famous one was on Indar, with the Crown, whatever faction owned the Crown would lose the Continent. It was the same on Esamir with teh Tech plant. But again, it was a problem, it was a problem acknowledged by the devs and they took measures to fix it, and indeed they did.

    Introducing spawns in Biolabs had exactly, precisely, absolutely the opposite effect, it shows a 180 degree turn in the dev's vision for the game, or at least, a lack of vision. Probably beacuse the devs or dev in question, was the kind of player who never cared about his faction or the alert in the first place.

    You didn't even read the last part of the sentence you quoted ... let alone the following paragraph. So let me copy paste those 8 words you missed.

    Actually, while I'm at it, let me copy paste that extra paragraph for you

    Maybe you didn't think that the fact that the game had 4k players last summer, 33% MORE than in 2015 was relevant, or maybe you chose to ignore that fact too.

    Again, dishonesty.

    Actually, you know what? I just read the rest of your post, just forget it. Whether you're trolling, whether you're arguing for the sake of it, or whether it"s some other reason, this is a waste of time.
  5. Somentine

    Oh really? What is this then:


    They were, you're so out of touch with how the game is and was played.

    Or it illustrates just how ignorant you are.

    Even if the Devs didn't want it, this follows the logical conclusion that players want it. It would also mean that the Devs agree with you, so why are you bashing their Twitter bio lol.

    It wouldn't be their first mistake, nor their last.

    Considering you think an article from 2014 was relevant, I don't see why not? You also haven't specified when the game was actually 'good', but from what I can infer it was around or before this article, which means it was around or before the end of 2014. Therefore, comparing population from then and now makes absolute sense.

    lol. Says the 'dude' mad enough about a Twitter Bio to start a thread complaining about others having fun.
  6. That_One_Kane_Guy

    That'll be a negative to all three, Ghostrider. There were times in that first year where I would spend ~75% of a session working on a Biolab with 100+ players while an equal number of enemies defended it. It wasn't just Biolabs, either. This kind of thing used to happen all the time.

    Take note of the equal populations. Lattice didn't happen for no reason.
  7. KripTed

    That's a joke right? VS always dominates. They're heavily overpowered.
    • Up x 1
  8. NotsiMadz

    No they aren't even a little bit overpowered at all....

    And no, I'm not arguing this one lol, level a BR ASP 100 on NC, TR, VS, and see for yourself.
  9. Liewec123

    Yep it was a joke,
    There was some guy here complaining about NC max (via a somewhat personal attack),
    claiming nc are winning every fight and TR/VS aren't even bothering to log in,
    so i had to hit him with the facts-hammer.
  10. KripTed

    What are you talking about? All the weapons for VS are overpowered and basically insta kill everyone. TR’s weapons are underpowered. I’ve been on all weekend and TR hasn’t won one single Alert. It’s always VS. The continents are constantly painted purple. It’s prob the reason why this game went to crap. Who wants to continuously play a game where there’s no balance between factions? Where only one faction constantly dominates? This game is unfair, unless your VS. BR Levels is only a small portion of the massive scale problem. Try again.
  11. KripTed

    Honestly, it’s between NC and VS, with TR always falling behind. The only time TR wins or starts to take over, is when the population is down. And that picture you posted, proves what I’m saying even more.
  12. That_One_Kane_Guy

    I think this is the part of the show where I ask for basically any evidence to support these claims. Not that I have particularly high expectations that they will be forthcoming, but still.
    My, my. Somebody must have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. If only everyone were gifted with your keen powers of discernment. Surely all things would be possible.
  13. NotsiMadz

    if you filter those Alert and use more recent times (like 2021 or 2020-2021), you'll find different figures, on Coblat, this year, VS has won 34% Alerts, just like NC.

    That said, there's something else, and that is :

    1. if most of the population doesn't care about winning alerts (which is partly the topic of this thread), then Alert stats are meaningless. You can't judge faction results for a game they dont play.

    2. Whether a faction tends to fight for alert victory or not depends mostly on active outfits (a minority of the population) but also on experience.

    What I mean is, fighting in one base for an hour or two can be fun, doing only that for 4 hours a day, every day gets old after a while, specially many months later. So at one point, more experienced players will look for more than "just a fight" in the game.

    ie: generally speaking (there are exceptions) how much a player is invested in helping his or her faction win depends on his or her experience.

    3. For these reasons (1 and 2) but in addition, because experience makes you better, generally, whether a faction tends to win, ultimately, depends on how experienced its members are.

    and 4 ---> (this is the part no one ever believes or thinks of, but it's true) VS tends to have more experienced players. Across all servers, since 2012.

    look! pretty colours! :))
  14. KripTed

    The picture the man posted earlier is evidence showcasing that TR is last. That’s enough evidence. I can post pictures every night I’m on and I can guarantee you, TR will be dead last. Especially when there’s an alert. Fanboy VS all you want. I’ve been here since 2012 off and on and TR has barely won any alerts. I’d be saying VS isn’t overpowered as well if it was my main faction and I kept winning every battle. Keep defending such unfairness and continue to watch this game die even more. Eventually it will be shut down completely because of nonsense such as this.
  15. NotsiMadz

    No one is disputing that VS tends to win more and TR tends to win last.

    Your mistake is to believe that this is due to gear.

    PS. do you have a BR ASP 100 on NC and VS and TR?
  16. That_One_Kane_Guy

    So that's a 'No' then? Got it.

    Please do. Do be sure to fetch the data from the whole day, not just the times when Your Eminence is on. Also from every server as well, there's a good chap.

    Throwing a date around doesn't win you any clout, here. Most long-timers here have been playing since the beginning. For example I can remember a server called Mattherson on which the TR were so dominant a legitimate NC/VS Alliance was formed, but that doesn't seem to fit your narrative.

    I'm going to need two things from you:
    First, I'm going to need you to read my sig. Slowly.
    Second, I need a mailing address so I can send you a helmet with a great big fan in it to cool off that hard-working brain of yours.
  17. KripTed

    I honestly don't care what you two say, cause I've played this game as nothing but TR since 2012, off and on. And I've barely seen us win during alerts or take over the continents. It's due to gear, weapons, tank weapons and etc. Population can be balanced or close to be being balanced and TR always falls behind.





    Tell me again VS isn't overpowered and doesn't constantly win and that TR doesn't always fall behind? I'm actually shocked to see TR actually doing better than NC on Indar. Rare, but I'm sure it won't last long. How is VS taking over every continent considered fair? I can check back tomorrow and see the stats. You wanna continue to defend a game where it's lacking balance and new content such as weapons to make it balanced? As well as new cosmetic items? Then go ahead, it won't matter to me when it dies. I'm not heavily addicted and I won't be the one having withdrawals when it's gone for good.
  18. NotsiMadz

    That first sentence alone suggests that there's no point discussing this topic with you.

    In addition, I provided answers and arguments to each and every one of your points and you ignored them.

    You're not here to discuss anything, you're not here to figure out what is true and what is not, like so many forum warriors.
  19. That_One_Kane_Guy

    Quotes. Learn how to use them.
    This is sad, funny and stupid all at once. I'd explain why, but I'm afraid it would simply ricochet off your ignorance like a pistol against a tank.
    I still see zero evidence from you that any factions weapons are demonstrably better or worse than anyone else's. Citing Alert results is not evidence. Crying in the forums is not evidence. Being here "since 2012" is not evidence. Lest we forget, you led with this gem:
    To which at this point I'm inclined to respond with a most liberal application of Hitchen's Razor.
  20. Campagne

    Something which is true for all of these points is the following: Better equipment will naturally result in more victories leading to higher reward gains and territory captures.

    Thus, passively playing players who are just going about their own business are more likely to capture and hold territory and perform better than piers of the same skill level when their equipment is superior. Stronger equipment will directly lead to faster experience gain.

    Now, am I saying anything in particular? Not really. Just pointing out a single simple cause which we have seen to influence the game in this manner before. It's a very safe bet to say the at-release ZOE and the many months which followed it prior to the nerf allowed many VS players to win dramatically more and farm easy kills and experience.