Things VS needs tuning for GU7

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by JDS999, Apr 15, 2013.

  1. JDS999

    MAX, these weapons are bad there is really no long or mid range effectiveness. close range the player still needs to be extreamly accurate to make kills,b4 u lose half ur life to one enemy. increase max energy bullet size and accuracy at mid range the energy bullets could merge together so they actually land where the dot is

    typicall vs max adventure, i come around a corner see a heavy , shoots rocket switched gun, he strafes back and forth shooting me to death. i then laugh

    typicall nc max adventure, i see a bunch of guys in a cap room i speed burst in and lay waste to 4-5 guys randomly pointing and clicking more if engi is fowing me. i then laugh

    MAGRIDER needs agilty and quickness ,yes this was op when everyone started out and had basic rocket launcher. now that 50% or more of the player base has all the counter weapons the magrider is a joke

    ranged bullet tuning this is dumb leave it be. IMO

    Last think starting gun orion only comes with 250 rounds total??? i think each tr/nc come with 400 to start.
    how is this acceptible? on a normal kill streak with no engi by the time i get to a cap point im out of ammo. i dont think ive ever run out of ammo with nc heavy.
  2. Quiiliitiila

    I agree the Magrider needs to be more agile... I don't even bother pulling it anymore, anything it can do my lightning can do better. Plus you're right; with lock on launchers and camera guided launchers, whatever leg up we had before these came out we no longer have it.

    Whenever I see a ZERG of TR prowlers come up against our counter ZERG of magriders, I laugh. Within a few minutes most of the time our magriders are all dead and MAYBE one or two prowlers went down.

    What can be done? Give us some more strafing speed and let us climb hills again.
  3. Zaik

    what is this i don't even
  4. KAHR-Alpha

    Exaggerating much? Last time I checked mags could still strafe and fire efficiently while moving, without any recoil on their main gun. You're not going to make me believe only two prowlers would go down in a zerg/zerg fight, unless what you call a zerg is three tanks.
  5. Chiss

    The magrider is still the best tank. Maneuverability is the most important attribute for vehicles, and the mag poops on the other two.

    I get that after using it for ages, you now feel its sluggish.... but try using a vanguard.
    I never use vanguard except as a suicide taxi. However, on my VS, i pulled a magrider as often as i could, because its amazingly strong and a ton of fun. This was post nerf too.

    Trust me, you have the best MBT, try to enjoy it.

    Also, something people fail to mention about the magrider is that it can aim with a much lower pitch than the other two tanks. This is a huge strength.
  6. EaterOfBabies

    Just played VS at length and seemed fairly balanced to me. I didn't use a max though so cant comment there.

    And the Mag comment is true for all tanks in general - they are free XP for the other empire. It's hard for any tank's strength to shine when there is so much AV out there. Tanks just don't last long enough to even have proper tank on tank battles.
  7. Sebyos

    Magrider is the best based on what ?

    Because based on that the Prowler is still the king.

    As for the two other points you exaggerate the mobility which by the way comes at the huge price of having to point your gun at your enemy and your back to HAs or worse, Engis who can control their rocket enough to hit your back while you're turning your fat tank toward a flanking enemy. And for the turret height let me let you I'd rather be able to shoot from behind rock cover than be able to shot a bit down.

    I haven't used my Magrider is ages and my K/D went way up. Tanks in general are iron coffins especially if you can't consistently put your back on a rock to protect it.
  8. drNovikov

  9. Aegie

    Apparently loosing the only drawback to the faction is not enough of an across the board buff for VS.

    How about next GU you remove the low ROF for NC or low damage for TR, or the high recoil for the NC or low mag ammo pool, or why not make it so no bullets have drop for any faction?

    It's a brave new world where there are only strengths and no weaknesses and all you have to do to be the OP faction is be the least popular.
  10. The King

    The magrider is crap because when you're trying to aim and hit something, you hit the ground because that turret is so low!
    Yeah, give me something that can actually fire downwards, not upwards....
    Not many use the mag anymore.
  11. Flag

    Have you played with the Magrider recently?
    No the magrider isn't useless.
    But it doesn't have any truly redeeming quality anymore. It used to, but not anymore.
    That and tanks are mostly HA/Engi fodder these days.

    So tell me then, what advantage does VS have?
    Accuracy? I wish, but having played a bit with the TR and NC weapons, they're nothing special.
    At the same time, the weapons don't do more damage, like NC. Nor do they have more bullets before ejecting the batteries like TR. Or the TR rate of fire.

    Sorry if that came across as a bit whiny, but the no-bullet-drop is an utterly ****e faction bonus.
  12. pnkdth

    Magrider, when fully certed, is fun but the steady influx of lock on launchers, AV turrets, and other forms of AV weaponry which negate the magrider's mobility its, well, mobility(along with the magburner) has been reduced to little more than a fun gimmick.

    Not sure what to do about though, buff projectile velocity, perhaps, to make it more accurate since I'm not really sure what the magrider's thing is supposed to be anymore(other than being an absolute terror for VS infantry of course).
  13. Flag

    Rivers that would stop other tanks in their, ba dum-tsh, tracks but let magriders float about would make them fun. Not better, but fun.
    • Up x 1
  14. Aegie

    VS do have an accuracy advantage in the 0 bullet drop- seen any videos of people sniping with slugs?
    I played enough VS and NC to tell you that bullet drop is an extra factor when judging accuracy and mid to long range engagements are easier with VS because every weapon has the same drop- 0. With TR and NC the amount of drop depends on the projectile speed of the weapon and therefore varies from weapon to weapon so it is a variable that must be factored along with lead time- both being variable depending upon the weapon. Any target that is stationary or has little to no relative horizontal motion is far easier to tag with a VS weapon than any other weapon because lead time is all that needs to be factored.

    Is 0 bullet drop a noticeable bonus in CQC? Nope, but then the damage degradation (the drawback) is also not noticeable here either and is in fact an advantage to VS given the damage drop-off, while continuing to a lower minimum, does so less quickly. Moreover, while VS have (until the changes coming) a lower min. damage than TR or NC the slope of the damage degradation is steeper for TR and NC- this means that if all they do is make VS have the same min. damage then they reach this minimum at a greater distance. So damage drop-off is a VS advantage until the range (around 100m or so) where the VS min. falls below the TR or NC min where it becomes a drawback. IMO this seems like an elegant balance because when the 0 bullet drop provides no advantage then slower damage degradation does, when 0 bullet drop provides an advantage then lower min. damage balances with a disadvantage. VS weapons are then placed firmly between NC and TR with respect to ROF and damage per shot.

    VS do not have weapons that have 200 damage per shot- this is true. However, take the Orion vs. the SAW- the Orion does less damage per shot but generates more damage per second so it is hard to see how more damage per shot is some great advantage. Additionally, the NC flagship carbine, the ACX-11, does 200 damage per shot but it has the same minimum damage as weapons from the 167 max damage tier- so the ACX-11 even at max damage does not have a DPS advantage and at range it looses its damage per shot advantage and you still have all the attendant drawbacks like 20 rounds in a mag, the highest veritcal recoil in that weapon class, the greatest COF bloom for that weapon class, the worst HIP COF for that weapon class, the lowest ROF for that weapon class. So where is the NC advantage? Oh, not only is it not an advantage but this weapon is only even competitive in the strange range between CQC and long range that is neither easy to judge or maintain with any reliability in a firefight.
    • Up x 1
  15. Xind

    It didn't come off whiny, you just need to understand some TR feel the same damn way, because extra bullets in the magazine really ain't all its cracked up to be when half of your weapons are mirrored by the VS. The only thing we have on you guys is an AR that most people agree isn't as good as the TAR. And if you think you really don't have our fire rate, you need to check the weapon documentation. Look at the weapons VS actually use. They're matching our fire rate pretty hard.
  16. JackOfClubs

    - Dies most frequently (only 4% more than the Prowler, but funny considering increased armour is the Vanguard's specialty).
    - Kills lowest amount of people per hour.
    - By far lowest SPH.
    - Slightly higher vehicle kills per hour (5%).

    - Dies by far the least.
    - Kills second highest amount per hour.
    - SPH comparatively line with the Prowler with only a small (4% lower) deviation.
    - Par vehicle kills per hour.

    (Magrider totally UP.)
  17. Flag

    Didn't quote, would take up a silly amount of space.

    Yeah I know it's possible to "snipe" with slugs. Is it consistent? Not very.

    The no bullet drop may help on bullet 1(for AR, LMG and Carbines). On bullet 2 and onward the spread nullifies most of the initial advantage.
    Of all the weapons I've tried on TR and NC, I've yet to find a no-silenced weapon to have any amount of bullet drop that was even remotely hard to deal with. Moreover, most battles happen at ranges where neither one really has much drop, if any.
    The only times when it really has any notable impact are the aforementioned slugs(which is really more of a gimmick) and semi-auto snipers.

    The thing is, NC has higher damage per bullet, yet have as many, or more, bullets than VS has. TR has even more, granted, but I'll get back to that. So if the user isn't a sheep, the NC weapons reward good aim, without really having a major drawback(they really don't). If you go full-auto rambo style, of course you're going to miss a lot.
    So NC has high damage, and enough bullets to last a while, giving them more time to shoot before they have to retreat/reload.

    TR do less damage than NC, yes. But to make up for that, they got more bullets to throw out there, and a higher rate of fire. So while each bullet does less, there's more of them, both per second and overall in the magazine.
    So TR has low damage, but a silly amount of bullets to share with the world.

    VS has... No bullet drop. And while it's going to be changed, also a harsher damage drop-off than the other two.
    VS does not have per-bullet damage like NC. Nor the higher magazine/battery size like TR.
    There are some weapons which sport high RoF(like the orion and VX 6-7) but for whatever reason they have the same, or fewer bullets than even NC(VX 6-7 has 30, Orion has 50).
    This means that while on paper the damage output looks good, it doesn't last very long.
    And that is what the issue is.
    Now if VS was somewhere between TR and NC on damage, ROF -and- battery capacity(magazines for you), that would be great.
    Instead we're left with a "bonus" that is so lackluster, they're removing the VS tax on bullets because it turned out it wasn't making a difference in firefights.

    The difference isn't game breaking, but it is annoying.
    "Grass is greener" and all that, and yes, maybe. I still don't see why having bullet drop supposedly hurts TR and NC so much. At most engagement ranges there's hardly any(unless you roll with barrel attachments).

    DPS is nice. Sustainability is nicer.
    And that is where VS falls short of the other two.
    • Up x 1
  18. Xind

    Poor comparison. All NC carbines have the same Ammo count as VS carbines, with one having a count of 20.

    I will say it's suspicious how much AMMO cap NC LMGs have when extra bullets in the magazine are not their advantage. Both TR and NC have three LMGs with 100 round mags and VS only has one.
  19. Zaik

    don't forget that two have extended mags that raise them to 200, lulz.

    ours reload slow as **** though, except em1 but it's awful so w/e.
    • Up x 1
  20. Aegie

    The NC weapons with higher damage per shot have lower ROF than the lower damage per shot counterparts- often, this results in VS having superior DPS (Orion vs. SAW) so it is hard to say this higher damage per shot translates into any real benefit in most scenarios.

    High damage per shot NC weapons have lots of drawbacks: 1) low ROF, 2) highest COF bloom values in the game for automatics, 3) terrible HIP COF, 4) highest vertical recoil in the game. If you add the ACX-11 then you also have to add the lowest mag capacity for any automatic AND the fact that the minimum damage here is the same for weapons with 167 max damage and this means that at range the higher damage per shot is negated while all of the attendant drawbacks to higher damage per shot are still in effect.

    VS are often in the middle of TR and NC regarding damage per shot. Also, damage degradation for VS is both slower and lower- what this means is that VS weapons retain more damage over distance than TR or NC up until the TR and NC minimum- VS only have a lower minimum and this minimum occurs later. IMO this was an elegant balance decision because what this means is that at ranges where bullet drop is irrelevant the VS retain more damage and at ranges where bullet drop is relevant the VS trade a lower minimum damage per shot as the drawback- neither drop or the minimum in damage per shot have substantial impact on performance and that is why most VS arsenal are situated between NC and TR regarding damage per shot and ROF.

    If bullet drop really is so irrelevant then it is hard to see why the devs would keep 0 bullet drop and do away with the attendant balance mechanism- IMO it would raise very few eyebrows if they said they were scraping the lower minimum damage and giving VS weapons equal bullet drop but instead they are only scraping the balancing mechanism and leaving the bonus. This would be like giving NC high damage per shot weapons higher ROF, lower recoil, better COF bloom, better HIP COF to remove the drawbacks to the higher damage per shot- or giving TR more damage per shot while retaining the high ROF and extra ammo.

    Look at the various metrics that compare faction performance- VS consistently outscore NC in a number of ways and are only outscored by NC with any regularity in MAX suits or snipers (probably bc the default NC sniper is OHK). Honestly, I have yet to see a solid justification for the across the board buff to VS weapons outside the belief that this is only being done in an attempt to boost VS populations. IMO, if that really is the biggest justification then it is a mistake. Either way, until I see something of substance to show how the VS were being significantly hurt by the damage degredation mechanism this change reeks of the developers intentionally unbalancing the factions in an attempt to influence the populations and that would be a terrible idea.
    • Up x 1