There's enough players for 4 major outfits per faction. Why do we have zerg outfits, demolish them.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by AuricStarSand, Mar 17, 2022.

  1. AuricStarSand

    Why do you have outfit wars? When zerg outfits are still a thing? Why bother. Till you rid zerg outfits, outfit wars isn't useful.
    My opinions of zerg outfits are mixed. It just depends on who's leading, per time of day. Or having a good time with people from other outfits, over the years.

    While Wildcards has helped win alerts & listened to my advice on occasion. & these are good things. I'd still have to say that overall, over the years. The overall experience of a zerg outfit, even if its from your faction. Is dull. They are dull dude. Recently I gave them the pass, that for sure they are boring to or bad to play with on weekdays. Yet I've seen them in the past play free on the weekends. So maybe this weekend that's how it'll be. Yet it wasn't. They burned the whole alert to a boring task. A boring win. Or a not moving to the 200+ person battle. They split the front to camp their resources & we lost all 6 territories. While they all ignored my advice on how to reach the 120+ person battle.

    This happens all the time. Either way I just made a outfit. Everyone is stuck to their own. It has nothing to do with popularity, the best advice in the world, strategy, respect, or knowledge. It's simply they are glued casuals most of them & the vets are glued for lazy reasons to. It has nothing to do with inspiration. It's simply bad outfit design or people being generic. I don't know. At the end of the day, recruiting for a new outfit, even if you're a pro vet, is impossible. They zerg took all the players on the server. Even if I rank #1 at capping a base for outfit resources, they have a ton of noobs to out rank & win the base. So LA jumping all over does nothing.

    Honestly recruiting being tough to do right now, is kinda expected. Tho I did expect like at least 12 vets to leave their outfit & join mine. As I believe I have better situational awareness than the other outfit leaders. Not to mention I'm online more often. & probably could run a Collosus better than most outfit leaders too. Tho no, nobody left to join my " RicosRoughnecks " new outfit, heh.

    I'm not salty about recruiting being ridiculously near impossible. However I am salty about how the zerg outfit plays with the map. It's not enjoyable. I've played with these guys for years & I still don't know who owns the Wildcards outfit. I respect them as they had a female member die many years ago & I like their memorial video.

    Yet still they've ruined more games, than they've made good. They are a zerg afterall, giving any random mid tier guy the reins to a whole platoon. or 2 platoons. All they do is camp. All week. 1 playstyle out of 100 ideas.

    Measure the players of the servers. Into 6 categories. 4 Major outfits. & 1 for people of outfits with only a few friends & 1 for people who want to solo a outfit. I realize theirs not a ton of pop to go around. Yet that doesn't mean their still should be zerg outfits. Theirs enough pop for 4 main outfits per faction per server with all medium levels of pop. Meaning they all have room to rock a platoon enough times of the week, with half their platoon being their outfit & the other half being a pub. Or all their outfit being a platoon.

    Right now during highest pop the zerg outfit has 2 platoon while others have 1 squad or 2 squads. So I don't believe its equal enough as is. Also the servers already have 2nd place 3rd place & 4th place faction that are semi active or entirely active. Yet just need members. Yet the zerg outfit hogged them all. Not to mention the zerg outfit is also top #1 marketed for the outfit recruitment page.

    It's like " Hey, not only do they hogg all the new players, vets, & so on, also get top promoted by the page for any other new players too ". Then the players they do have are too lazy to quit their bad leadership outfit & figure something else out. As they'd be waiting for the other newer outfits to gain more members, before they quit to join a newer outfit that has better leadership.

    So who is PS2 helping? Newer outfits or the same old zerg outfit? The zerg.
    The only thing left for a new outfit to do, when everyone is glued to the lame past. Is invite new lowbies, as if their online, or quit the game as it offers zero evolution for a vet that doesn't want to join the zerg outfit, to be a general. & Not just someone throwing his hands around yelling at /region. Less you want to slowly recruit 1 noob per day.

    Limit the outfit size to 200 active members like WoW does. Or maybe even less, since the servers have less pop than WoW. I don't know, it seems the size is going to have to be based on 1/6th ratios like I said. 4 for the FOUR MAJOR OUTFITS. As of now its just 1 major outfit & 3 way smaller ones trying to be medium but never attaining medium.

    So maybe 100 to 150 active members per outfit. A testing phase for outfit limit size?
    1 point solo outfitters, 1 point tiny outfit of friends only, then 4 points major outfits = 1 platoon per 1/4th outfit, on Fri/Sat/Sun 6pm to midnight. Maybe even get rid of solo outfits. I use to like solo outfitting & ninja'ing bases for a os, tho they made os more expensive (fine). Tho overall their isn't enough players for solo outfits TBH. Everyone is glued to something. Would be helpful for everyone to have a more flexible position on which outfit they want to join. It is a numbers game, It's nearly rigged. I've respectively helped my allies for years & posted on these forums, that hasn't earned me 1 single member.

    Lastly, ways to help 4 major outfits, be set. For good / game wise.
    For west server, that'd be PINK, helo, G1H1 gaming, & hopefully my RicosRoughnecks. Trying for medium size outfits. Or smaller dpso & cya9. Tho right now its just all Wildtards.

    I'd even hugely favor a outfit reroll, making the whole outfit outfitless haha. That'd be WAY BETTER. Ye make them all have to re recruit with size limits. Then don't let them re-join their zerg outfit for like a whole week, so the other outfits have time to promote. Before they get all the amatuers resaddled to their zerg. So ye pop limits, & kick all the old members from every outfit.
    All restarted fresh. Fresh outfit recruiting phase, or outfit wars is a joke.
  2. OpolE

    Bet you try to fit in with everyone and still find yourself in a small friendship group.

    GO FIGURE....
    • Up x 1
  3. RabidIBM

    "Other people play a sandbox game differently than me, make them stop!" Yeah, that will be good for the bottom line. The only thing that's over populated here is the word count of the OP.
    • Up x 3
  4. AntDX316

    You have Absolute Zero idea on how and why Zerg Leadership works as a positive. You should be permanently banned from ever thinking about making such clueless posts with No backing again other than being jealous that you have no big outfit to Lead or have influence over. Well, you can come to [ISV] VSA on VS Emerald and Lead if you want like you "own" the outfit without all the war assets and kicking people out of the outfit who disagree with you.
    • Up x 1
  5. VV4LL3

    I'm a Wildcard, and can attest that we do try to work as a team amongst all outfits. It's not about the Zerging though -- it's about concerted effort.

    What you're asking is to change how other people play the game instead of worrying about how YOU, as an individual, can do better to shape what is within your influence or control. This is problematic, since the behavior will not change regardless of outfit controls, restrictions, and limitations/ resets.

    The leading principle in Joint Operations is "Unity of Effort," not "Unity of Command." It's more important people work together towards a common effective goal than individual objectives. Unity of command is useful, certainly, but not required in a fast, dynamic gaming war environment.

    Some of the things you're complaining about though are simply unavoidable.

    You will not be able to stop a zerg without limiting populations. Outs are simply organizational tools to add identity to a group of people. When you give a group of people purpose though, you form a TEAM.

    Zergs are inherently a team of people, regardless of outfit, that have a common objective: security and strength in numbers.

    Take 100 pugs with a modicum of game sense, they will band together for the security. Doesn't matter if they're not in an outfit or not. Happens in every game and is expected in a massive player game.

    Why do large outfits exist? Good leadership.

    It was a few days ago we had smaller outfits being toxic on Command Chat, trying to recruit Wildcard members, among others, using voice filtration to mask themselves. This proves as a point example of toxic leaderships effect on teams. They weren't genuine, healthy, or even positive leaders, which is why they struggled to keep people.

    These bad leaders were using bad recruitment techniques to garnish members to their outfit, much like your chief complaint of outfit size and zerging effect on game experience. The people that join those outfits align themselves to weak leadership and are temporarily there for the novelty.

    Larger outfits, for the most part, have low attrition, high recruitment rate not just because of their success, but because of the leadership involved. It will not matter if outfits are 10 people, or 1000 people, good leadership will attract people of a certain type that identifies with those groups.

    So, as I stated earlier, think about what you can do to become a better outfit leader. You don't have to leave or disband your outfit, but feel free to ping me in game or any Wildcard Officer, and we'll be more than happy to mentor you on the positive ways to garnish membership. After all it is a gaming community.
    • Up x 1
  6. AntDX316

    Gaming or not it can apply to doing anything in life. If people know how to better efficient the group or each other the better. Communicating what it should look like easily where people don't "have to think" is the best. Sure they could question what you want them to do but if you make it clear and thought about it already, they can do it mindlessly and nothing will go wrong.

    At times I really don't want to lead and do w/e but the platoon grows so fast and/or people log in that make it where "I need to lead now". Ultimately when I play it's like I'm by myself and others help me to accomplish what I need to do or I help them accomplish what they need to do.
    • Up x 1
  7. AuricStarSand

    1st of all, this doesn't just benefit me. This benefit every single server & faction out there. Anyone who has a low tier outfit, waiting to be a middle tier outfit. Also I stated the top 4 major outfits, so if you're proposing that your spamtard outfit is worth more than 4 equal outfits, that's more ignorant, than me wanting to lead 1 of the 4 main outfits, per faction, per server.

    This also benefits solo outfitters, or small friend sized outfits of a squads worth. As they often don't like Wildcards either. Many have made solo outfits just for that very reason. Or else a vet tried to branch out of wildcards & make his own outfit. To not much success. As Wildcards hogged all the members. I've seen a few vets try to branch out.

    Then you keep replying with " good leadership " & my whole post was about bad leadership & WIldcards even tho friendly in chat often. They are like a 1 trick pony football coach. Same play, same strategy. Same reason for playing. Not " Wild. They def aren't " wild ". They play like office clerks.

    Now adays I get kicked from outfits or platoons of outfits, because some leader got salty that I was throwing football plays out to the public. So he now muted me & kicks me randomly from his squads, without me having any personal issue with the person usually. They still kick. Even if I'm down to hang. Tho originally I wasn't getting kicked over leader being salty about my strategy plays. Originally wildcards kicks just since I use to like to joke tk. & they can't take a joke. Not even if its after a base win & nothing is happening.

    The 2nd reason wildcards kick is if you complain about their zerging & their camping, their boring ghostcapping for a million minutes. They kick for that to, if you have issue with it. They aren't wild, they just camp, that's not good leadership. Also VS has already WON the SERVER. theirs nothing to prove. NOTHING. So they don't even need to win alerts until TR & NC get better. Or else vs vets need to make alts to whip the other factions to win more often. Before winning is the main objective for VS again.

    Right now vs just won 4 alerts in a row & I'm trying to preach to these early day noobs, that we should just go farm the TR warpgate. As we already won. & Their eager to stop the NC from having more land. So I told them, " It's ok, if NC wins, NC never gets to win. ".

    The major strategy WIldcards uses, is for example: Farming Tawrich. IF YOU farm Tawrich, you don't deserve to lead anything, your outfit is not a good outfit, your leadership is not good leadership. Farming Tawrich is all I need to know. To tell me how lame of a outfit, your outfit is. Theirs 100 other class combos to do, theirs 10 other unique bigger battle regions to plan to move to, theirs unique events like soccer games you can setup with other factions, theirs unique ways to farm that doesn't involve ghostcapping like a capitalist. So no they don't have good leadership. It's also a random mix of guys leading, since their a zerg. They have some friendly voices with chat, tho they do the same play, every year.

    Also any Vet is going to have a problem recruiting. I may have repaired the most on the server, revive grenades, saved wins of alerts, ninja'd solo to help win many alerts, transported people, sundered the most sunders, set the most beacons on the map, thrown the most smoke on the map, told region chat healthy advice the most, & so on. Maybe could list another page of this. Yet that didn't score me 1 member, it's def not going to score the next Vet who wants to branch out from the zergtard outfit. & Make his own.

    Also if you're insisting that your outfit needs 2+ platoons, while other outfits only need 1 or 2 squads, then you are the issue, not me. I'm fair. 4 major factions is fair. Zergs aren't fair. Nor their members replying. Nor zerg leaders who may reply. I'm not even salty about recruiting, so stop saying that. I measured it as such, a slow grind of gaining 1 noob per day. I'm not mad over that. It is what it is. Yet I'm not gonna recruit 1 noob per day, I'd rather write this post. Also I didn't write this post over being salty about recruiting. I'm more bothered by how they play the map. The recruiting stuff is just extra knowledge. That any new Vet is gonna have a problem with, who doesn't want to join the zerg.

    No they didn't gain more pop from leadership, they gained all the pop from being the 1st outfit to spam invite. & then the rest of the playerbase is too lazy to move.

    Lasty, how do you even expect Outfit Wars to be a prominent feature. Without making 4 major outfits of medium population, more of a thing?
  8. JibbaJabba

    An outfit size cap (in the thousands mind you) would be fine for a lot of good reasons.

    The rest of this is post is really detached from reality. What makes you think you can tell people who they team up with? You seem to have a problem in general with telling people how they play. Especially if it's getting you kicked and muted from outfits and platoons. Wow.

    Back away and take in what you are typing and get a bit of self awareness.
    • Up x 1
  9. AntDX316

    I know, that's why I've made my own. In the beginning people kept kicking me when we needed to be at a base. The Platoon/Squad leaders don't care. Time and time again I see we lose an alert to a ghost capped base that no one in /orders chat at the time bothered to fix this and it has been happening for many months even to today when people aren't paying attention.

    I've made my own outfit to be able to get in a position where people can hopefully see what I need them to see and for people to know. A lot of people lead for many reasons, some like it because they like being the center of attention. Some lead because they want and like when people to do better. I lead because I need people to help me and I help them with what I got. There is no way 1 best way to lead. As long as people are working collectively towards a goal and it works, then it works. I try to do it as easy as possible w/o all the non-sense that arises like people not believing you, people thinking you are wrong, people think you do nothing, etc. etc. etc. but I'm the one on the battlefield and most of the time being the Only spawn for everyone even when I keep spamming in /regionsay, "we need more sunderer spawns, we need more sunderer spawns!!" yet no one does it and 500 people are spawning out of the sunderer.

    I just want to play to try to win. Some people make it ultra complicated and complex where hierarchy Must exist before things get known or done. This makes it discouraging to be able to do certain things as the effort level is driven up sometimes so high that it sucks to do again. I know, it's possible to Not lead and play like no one knows you and you know no one but the potential of what goes on when you are working with people makes the game so much easier and more intriguing to play.

    Spamfit, zergfit, w/e, I got banned from the SKL and VKTZ Discords. Throughout the years I've ensured to never make anyone have the possibility to disband or kick people out of the outfit as they wanted to do for years before I started using the mic and actually "leading". People's logics, some people demand people to be kicked out of the platoon who aren't listening which is understandable. I prefer to kick no one and make it work which does work a lot of times, not every time of course. I do not want to micromanage control every single person. I just want them to know how to see things properly and act accordingly like AI. Like, we are in a squad/platoon with other people not in the group, working with them is how to win. Utilizing /regionsay and such is how to do it which most people never ever do. They ask who owns the playerbase near by in /command chat instead of /regionsay then I tell them and now they know.

    As long as people near you know wtf to do, it works. If it doesn't, try to make it work either by communicating with them or you working with them without them knowing you even exist such as, as an infiltrator you cloak so when enemies shoot at your teammate you uncloak and shoot at the enemies without the enemies shooting at you.

    You should careless about what other outfits do to you or what they think about you. If an alert is lost because people didn't go to a base you were trying to hard to people to go to so what. We can only do so much. Try again next alert or just not pay attention to the alert is what I do. I've had many times where we did win an alert because people were listening on multiple channels but then people log out or stay for the next alert. It's better than just winning in Call of Duty or Apex Legends. It could be considered More advanced but due to the simplicity I keep making it to be, it feels the same, not much stress.
  10. karlooo

    My solution to the zerg outfits, would be making the important nanite vehicles -> outfit assets...Like this would require redesigns of course, new vehicles. But the point is that if the main vehicles like tanks, logistics will be outfit assets, together with the limit for the amount of outfit assets stored in the warehouse, then a single outfit will not have the freedom to choose any role they desire, and will need to divide outfits if they want to specialize in something.

    But this needs to be well thought out by the devs, it's not simple. And there you have a simple solution to ruining outfits that hoard and invite everybody, the players will essentially leave by themselves to search for an outfit that will be able to arm them for a role that they enjoy.

    And speaking of specialization, this is what the new players need as well. They need to stick to a role and specialize in it to work their way up. They don't have the certs to switch roles whenever they want. So this concept will support the new players as well.
  11. AuricStarSand

    Either way I'm dragged to the zergs playstyle or just yawn for a whole hour or however many hours someone wants to play, per day. As I've studied the map the most for my faction. Every non zerg vet, has to wait for the zerg. WoW has a outfit limit. Equal guild squad shares.

    Not to mention Harasser drove the most for my faction or server to scout the land. Proving any of this is pointless. It won't give me members. I would suggest the dev's to make some format ui, where 4 major outifts is proof. Like a wall of 4. Outfit size limitation test servers. Based on weekend populations of squads. Then a month long re recruiting phase with podiums for every outfit to figure out. I'd even be down to duel other vets to figure this out. Via Thunderdome. Outfit pop limitation, start at 80 the first month, then add 60 more per month, Till 200. 2 to 4 months later.

    If leadership is the best, then nobody has to worry about this refresh phase. As your quality members will stay with you. Tho as for weight to squad ratio of sharing squads for Outfit Wars. The zerg is no more & 100 other plays are viable to vet's who don't want to join the zerg.
  12. RabidIBM

    Your sense of entitlement is amazing. You're obviously just upset that nobody wants to play with you, but rather than improve yourself you're just mad at the those who people do want to play with.

    The Wild Cards arent without fault, I did move on from them after a year. They also do a lot right, which is why it took a year for me to move on. You on the other hand, I played with you once and left laughing and shaking my head.
  13. VV4LL3

    Let's keep this conversation less personal. Shall we? Gloves on.
  14. AntDX316

    People can make their own smaller outfits. If you go to you can see what outfits are performing the best. There are outfits with less than 10 even less than 5 people getting Hundreds of kills. My Outfit runs around like 0.8 KDR with around 25 people during alerts. Other Outfits are running over 1 KD and some 3-4 KD.

    If you want to get the help of "Zerg" outfits (SKL with like around 90+ during alerts) all you have to do at times is use /command chat or message some of the Leaders to ask for their assistance.

    The other way is just to stop caring and solo. Sometimes I can't even get people from my outfit to join my squad. I don't bother inviting other people on the field at times to join my squad. I just do my own thing like with vehicles and other infantry stuff and it's more peaceful than people having to have you look at the map and give suggestions every single time they see something. You are basically living in the map with 48-people and only for me like 10 or less are in my outfit. We win the alert but ultimately no one cares just you got some respect points and people wanting to play with you again when your platoon gets big. I tried doing w/e many times way back and having extra people but it actually is indeed worse. Having people have bases to look at, or telling them they are doing a good job where they are when people are spread out while informing everyone else how this is a good idea and you aren't "lazy" or looking like you are ultra new and have no idea how to lead. There are vibe checks that constantly go on in multiple different areas across multiple people at the same time and the more of them you can be successful at hitting them the more successful your Leadership results should be. Ultimately, you win the alert and people are happy. As long as the people who are holding/taking bases know what they are doing enough, skillful enough, and capable enough to hold overruns or create Overruns to demoralize the enemies from pushing that area of the map. Either it turns into a containment objective (keeping the pop there without them advancing) for the whole alert or the pop dies and no one touches it.

    Basically I like to lead outloud at times. I tell people where they should be and why real quick. I have to lead outloud because there are people who demand everyone to be at a base without them realizing the other bases the people leave will get underpopped. We don't know how much "weight" each player has on a base and for them to leave it can mean we can lose the base they were in. Bases can then become overrun as the morale gets incredibly boosted when they keep killing and taking objectives. It's all about balancing the game out and prevent a 2v1. To make it where the other factions fight amongst themselves while we hold off what we got at say 60% territory control. Having them stop fighting each other and a faction making it their Mission to ensure you don't win could eventually lead people logging out though like I said, it's possible to hold their advances if we do things properly but if their pop is just too much we can only do so much.

    Playing like we have a 48-man squad is how I like to lead. Not neglecting the fact I can use /regionsay and /command to get more help. I also use /yell at times to get the other factions to fight each other and sometimes it does work. Worse comes to worse I use /outfit chat but I only do that if we are pulling a Colossus or a Bastion as I don't want to disturb people. Using /tell chat to other Leaders or other people to change the alert works too but I don't think I've done that method in years. If I'm using /tell chat now it's just for a quick conversation or a meet up that leads to getting each others Discord.

    There are other Leaders that Demand people Must be together or they are kicking people out or disbanding the entire platoon of 40+. I understand, this works at times but I like to work with what we got and what people are doing on All areas of the game. It's easier this way than to force micromanage people into doing things that could work but may not work at all an induce nothing but heartache from trying so hard to win only to lose especially to something easy and dumb like Berjess Overlook or Cobalt Communications to a few people.
    • Up x 1
  15. AuricStarSand

    This West Server. The Outfits are: 1 zerg outfit, tons of solo outfitters, really new people who are too new / outfitless, then like 6 small outfits. Which I find a mess or bad.

    When it really should be a template UI measuring the squads of weekend hours. Then distributing those squads for a 4 outfit template, & making solo outfit vets less of a reason to exist overtime, by making the 4 major medium pop outfits better formatted. Lastly you allow room for 2 smaller outfits as well for midnight hours. So 4 of major medium population for daytime & 2 small for past midnight hours.

    So these 4 outfits have 1 platoon + per time of the week, then work together more. & zerg ghost a base doesn't happen as often. Outfits Wars now equates to a more meaningful season event. & The zerg is history. Evenly, with the template 4 UI.

    Population limit may be less than 200 after all. Perhaps 120 limit? Would have to test. If 200 is WoW, PS2 may be less per guild.
  16. AuricStarSand


    (The map right now )

    So the official way to recruit these days? is make a " outfit page " on these forums & wait for members? Or just recruit 1 noob per day, who doesn't have a outfit? That seems slow.

    How do you get others to leave their outfit? That's the real question.
  17. VV4LL3

    This seems to be a reposting rant that the community explained already. What it boils down to is this:

    You can't control the social behaviors of an entire gaming community. Even if outfits were limited to two people, you'd have literally thousands working together of like minded people.

    Wish you luck and hope you come to some sort of understanding that you can't control other people's "groups" to ensure you have people in your outfit to run with.

    Have you considered joining a larger outfit and learning from them? It may help some of your soft skills in leadership and ultimately ability to recruit people on your own some day.

    Send a PM, and we'll see what we can do.
    • Up x 1
  18. AuricStarSand

    - Ye they do make large groups of people jump through hoops, with their platoon beacons. How else would they all ghostcap bases boringly for years. If they weren't sheep herded. They joined for pop reasons & stay for pop reasons, not necc leadership reasons.

    - Nothing to learn from. I dig warpgates better / *writes list paragraph long of facts of what I do better, till someone replies trying to say I suck saltedly*. Ye I've tried, leaders don't like other leaders, even if its just good advice. Or at least that's how these leaders are. They want to ghostcap & zerg the lamer approaches, I don't.

    - Thanks for your invitation, join Rico's Roughnecks, we'll see if we have room, with all these lvl 1 noobs to invite, woo. Said no one ever.