[Suggestion] There isn't enough Air Defense on the Bastion.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by AntDX316, Apr 29, 2020.

  1. AntDX316

    Against Top coordinated outfits, you stand Zero chance of surviving if your air force is a lot less than theirs that come in with Libs, ESFs, Galaxies, Valkyrie C4 groups in an orchestrated fashion. We should have at least 1 or 2 AA guns, more gattling guns, more hardpoints, and/or the cooldown significantly changed for what we have now.
  2. Trebb

    One of the most fun things to do in game for me, is when this happens (as long as the enemy isn't like 60% pop+), is to slap a beacon down, and drop onto the tower top with an engie AV turret. It currently one shots those pesky ESFs hovering and farming infantry. Does good chunk damage to Libs, but just wait until they're smoking or they just repair and farm you.
    • Up x 1
  3. Blam320

    A Bastion's primary defense is supposed to be the Response Fighters your outfit can spawn from them for free; the downside is it forces players to pick up the most unforgiving aspect of play in the game.
    • Up x 2
  4. AntDX316

    We've died time and time again over outfits constantly out to get us. It's getting worse and worse every pull. Outfits are getting better at responding to enemy Bastions. To have an anti-bastion weapon would just make matters worse. Adding 1-2 AA guns would be suffice or even decreasing the gun cooldown of the gattling guns significantly. You can only all target so much at a time and can do nothing about everything bombarding your carrier. Even if they are very far away, the bullet drop of some of the weapons is non-existent. They are sniping us from far away and we can't do anything about it.

    If you are going to add the anti-bastion weapon at least take into consideration what is truly happening. We weren't even on a super hot continent too with lots of population. It doesn't take 50 aircraft to do heavy damage. It just takes a group of say 12 that constantly send wave after wave with libs, C4 fairies, ESF, valks etc. If anything at least decrease the cooldown on the guns if nothing else will change and the anti-bastion tank is released. We are a full bastion with extra fighters w/ the empire but we cannot stop the onslaught. If they go full low-angle only the bottom guns can attack them, if they are all high angle only the top guns can attack them. Basically we get killed to death in no time.

    Look at the coordination that goes on with just a small group like this. Now see that with huge air squadrons. Now see all of that with the anti-bastion weapon.

    Another suggestion could be to buff the damage of the gattling guns by making it fire faster, more damage, more spread and more fire volume, at least 2 more gattling guns at the top, etc.

    Every empire throughout the day is gradually having a response platoon that will kill Bastions like a speed run. The Bastion is very slow. At least up the speed too?
  5. Pelojian

    this. if 12 players can take aircraft and kill a bastion then you got outplayed, it's no wonder people want to get better at killing bastions, because they can kill ground fights, especially with orbital strikes piled on.

    the air game is very hard to get into, the bastion owners get free fighters, some AA guns. that's enough air defense for a heavily armored flying aircraft carrier.
    • Up x 2
  6. Johannes Kaiser

    Thing is, only air currently counters Bastions. And air is objectively the part of the game that interacts the worst with the rest and with itself (horribly balanced and extremely difficult to get in).
    So there needs to be some way for not-aces to get rid off Bastions, but I do agree for aces (or zergfits who can simply throw numbers) it's almost ridiculously easy getting rid of them. Our BFC was taken out within 5 minutes of moving to the VS front today by a DIG fleet of about 40 aircraft. That wasn't even epic. It was just...frustrating.
    In the end, bastion shreds relentlessly, but in the same vein is being shred relentlessly by either air-skilled or "throw hundreds of heads against the wall until it breaks" groups. Would be nice if the Bastion were less volnerable to those groups, BUT ALSO less killy itself.

    In the end, I would support adding both some more effective way from the ground (like the Colossus) while at the same time adding more AA turrets.
    • Up x 1
  7. Glenndal

    The only change I think I would currently make to improve the Bastion air defenses is to increase the projectile speed on the fighters. As far as I can tell the weapon set for the fighters does less damage per shot and has a significantly reduced projectile speed from the regular ESFs. (not 100% sure, I didn't run the numbers and I don't fly them that often, but that's what my gut is telling me) The damage reduction I'm fine with. The problem I have with the projectile speed is that aiming in a fighter is already hard, and making it harder to hit mostly only frustrates people that already aren't used to leading shots in the air.

    Additionally, Its very important that the Bastion is vulnerable to air. Back when it first released and people were complaining that there were no counters to it, if there were actually no counters, they would have been right to complain. As it stands, they just weren't imagining coordinated or skilled air can take it down without another Bastion to back it up. Turns out Air counters the Bastion. That's what makes pulling the Bastion a strategic decision. You can force a fight to go into the air by pulling one. That's a useful tool to have. That doesn't guarantee you a win in the air though. You should also consider where you're engaging, do you have ground support near the locations you're attacking? Are the pilots online/in your group skilled enough/populous enough to push off an enemy team? Epic is not something that just happens because we want it to. Its how we describe large prolonged engagements with lots of dynamic shift. Bastion allows us to create the shift, but skill, strategy or numbers are needed to make the fight last. That's on us as players. I feel anyway.

    Lastly, while generally the loadout for the Bastion is listed as turrets and fighters, if you aren't a particularly coordinated group of fighters defending a bastion in the air, I sometimes like to instead think of the Bastion's loadout as consisting of turrets and player-guided missiles that happen to be shaped like fighters. Your fighters are free, theirs aren't unless they also have a bastion. Not particularly classy, but sometimes cathartic.
  8. AntDX316

    Only air counters Bastions? We can and have easily lost our whole bottom deck by taking a lot of tank and missile fire.

    I do agree with the Bastions being quite OP but the constant main gun bug of it not firing is bad. I would say if they are going to add an anti-bastion tank or w/e it is, add 2 more gattling guns to the very front that can look both down and up. Not all the outfits have Huge air forces to defend themselves. If nothing changes and the anti-bastion weapon becomes OP at least decrease the cost by 25% to own and decrease the time it takes to craft everything by 25%.
    • Up x 1
  9. Money

    if i've learned anything from this game, it's that numbers counter anything. Have a heavily entrenched Crown B point? Throw a ton of people at it. It will break eventually. If someone is willing to throw a ton of people and resources at a Batallion, it should fall. Otherwise, it's just a roaming killing machine that will ruin the game.
    • Up x 3
  10. DarkStarAnubis

    Sadly this is, in essence, PS2.

    Despite all the "combined arms" b.s. (aka "tanks and ESF looking for infantry to farm") just amass enough firepower and you can get through any defense.

    That's the reason why Zergs are so brutally effective.
    • Up x 1
  11. TRspy007


    Even if that's not a rare occurrence, once the 2 points at the bottom are down, there's not much ground can do except redeploy to avoid getting farmed. There's 8 points on a bastion remember? You literally can not take it down without air.
    • Up x 1
  12. AntDX316

    We died in like 2 minutes from 60% HP when 500 TR air decided to mass Pearl Harbor coordinate strike against us. Outfits are getting extremely good and Bastions w/o as big of a group have Zero chance at survival. At least add 2 or more more Gattling guns to the front and back that can look 270 degrees and/or decrease the cooldown and nothing else to keep it balanced.

    I check the outfit tags and it's different groups throughout the day.
  13. Trebb

    I don't know how to feel about this.

    It's like A2G farmers asking for buffs to their aircraft. Wait, that's exactly what's happening here :p
  14. Johannes Kaiser

    Not quite, it's more along the lines of "since you finally make attacking it from the ground an option, could you please make it a little bit less less vulnerable to air then?".
  15. LodeTria

    The interceptor guns are clones of the default ESF noseguns with larger mag sizes. All other stats are indentical.
  16. Glenndal

    Ah, so I did check the wiki on this. The full page for the "Pincer" variant of the "Needler" used on TR interceptors does mention that the firing pattern is different, with the bullets originating from the wings and firing toward the center of the screen, alternating left-right. It definitely does some screwy things to aiming. Everything else including damage does seem to be the same except for the larger magazine size.
  17. adamts01

    Bastion defenses aren't the problem. The problem is getting zerged by fighters out of nowhere. If you balance Basion AA against a platoon of ESF, then anything less than a platoon will stand zero chance, and anything greater than a platoon will still beat your bastion.

    Some solutions: Let anyone spawn a fighter from the bastion. Give a faction-wide notice when more than a squad of enemy aircraft are within 2 hexes of a friendly bastion.

    Right now, if numbers are equal, the Bastion wins. Defenders can chain pull ESF, while attackers can't. No, not everyone is an ace pilot, but keep in mind that that platoon of ESF on their way to kill you is made up of mostly noobs too.
    • Up x 1
  18. Eaglebird

    The real solution is to open the bastion fighter response to the whole empire and leave the guns to the outfit.