The ZOE MAX - OP or not?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Fbwhytee, Jun 24, 2013.

  1. Kevorkian

    nvm, I guessed they changed it. Originally it was supposed to scale in reduction penalty. I guess that's why I'm noticing no difference in survivability between ranks.
  2. LordMondando

    Cut the genetic fallacy ********. I would not even be bothering to enter into this debate, without several hours in a VS max with and without Zoe. I have characters on all three empires, though I mostly play NC, I make an effort to play VS and TR as much as possible (hovering around 23 for my TR 24 for my VS) so I can take an empirical and two sided approach to this discussion.

    Keep the damage buff, hell lower the armour debuff. but what is the argument for such a versatile ability being the only one in the game without a timer, or a cooldown?
  3. Fbwhytee

    It was bad. It probably had a higher KDR because it was only ever used by players who played them extremely defensively, as opposed to the NC and TR MAX that were constantly on the front lines, dying and being revived.

    I played the VS AI MAX for a long time. It did have to be played so defensively that if more than one infantry attacks you, you pretty much had to charge away or die. Eventually I started using comets, since they were better than any of the AI weapons at killing infantry. Then I rolled an NC Hacksaw MAX and could not quite believe how effective it was in comparison. I rolled a TR Chaingunner and had similar results.

    The NC and TR were already powerful. The VS max was brought in-line with the others with ZOE.
  4. Kevorkian

    I meant a timer ability.

    The damage buff is negligible. ZOE is about mobility. The only time to have it activated is during a difficult/dangerous fight where mobility is needed. Changing it to an ability with a cooldown wouldn't change anything, unless the cooldown was long.

    Um, no.
  5. Pivke

    well max unit and fast moving cant go together. it really has no downside dont tell me about 30% less armor, thats just laughable.

    if you compare VS and TR abilities (because they both increase damage output). TR gets penalized with being 100% immobile and can only shoot forward plus it needs some seconds to get in or out of lockdown. VS ability rewards you increased damage output AND grants you awesome speed to dodge most of the stuff the enemy throws at you, plus you can catch anyone or flee to safety with no risk of getting caught in bad position.

    if you really so desperately want to keep the speed and not be on a timer and no more reducing armor. what do we have left to change??
    only the damage output. instead of current damage increase, that could be changed so it lowers the default damage values of your guns by -20% at maximum rank and -30% at first rank.
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  6. Xasapis

    Well, the idea is to position yourself better with it then close it to engage. How about they do something else, similar to aegis. As long as zoe is active, you can't shoot or you have half your ROF.

    (I would like the glitch with the aegis to be fixed if the above happens though. No loading while shield is up, thank you ;))
    I guess I'm more radical than you, hehe (look comment above).
  7. Kevorkian

    That would be a terrible idea. Would completely destroy an offensive ability, rendering ZOE 100% useless. Aegis can't shoot because its a defensive ability.
  8. Xasapis

    It's a positional ability. Wouldn't even make much of a difference considering how fast you set it on and off. You just wouldn't be able to chase people around gunning them at the same time.

    (It would even raise the survivability of your average zoe user)
  9. Fbwhytee

    And we're back to debating how it should be nerfed.

    It doesn't need a nerf. It's powerful like its supposed to be.

    Prior ZOE, VS AI MAX was terrible, I don't care what the stats say, I've been playing long enough to know from personal experience. Hell, maybe the players on VS are just better. Who knows.
  10. Kevorkian

    There's already a "positional ability", its called Charge. No really, your idea is bad.

    That sums it up right there. You're letting your bias of ZOE blind you. This thread wasn't created for rational discussion.
  11. SadButTrue

    An ability is balanced when no faction wants it :)
  12. MrK

    Well, honestly because ZOE idea is insanely stupid.
    The DEFINITION of a MAX is to exchange power for speed.
    A speedy MAX isn't a MAX anymore.
    It's like the magrider MkI able to go absolutely everywhere, being over-the-top.
    I understand it's fun to use, but it's breaking concepts.

    I'd rather have a real innovative idea instead of making MAXes HA on steroids.
  13. Fbwhytee

    I don't care what the stats say because they are misleading and largely irrelevant. VS AI MAX prior to ZOE was very poor in comparison to the opposing factions AI MAX. If you have played a dedicated VS AI MAX prior to ZOE then you would know. Now it is comparable to the opposing factions AI MAX, and people scream "OP".

    Funnily enough, people also cried "OP" against the TR and NC MAXes (nobody ever said the VS MAX was OP, or even good at all). This leads me to believe that since everyone now thinks that all 3 MAX are OP, they are all balanced.
  14. Xasapis

    The guy does have a point. Regardless of what Higby said, I don't think a single person considered the VS max prior to zoe as an actual combat asset. When heavies go head on against your max or even infiltrators with SMGs (and I'm not talking low BR who don't know better), then you know that they think your max is crap. The massive amount of maxes pulled (hard to believe it was actually double the pre-zoe era) along with a really good ability, led to a cultural shock of a population that considered something bad for the better half of a year.
  15. Kevorkian

    The lead developer disagrees with you. That's why ZOE has received thus far two rounds of nerfs. That's also why there's still more nerfs to come.

    This character was created in December. I've played VS max long enough to know it was more than capable pre-ZOE. I also play NC, and know first hand how imbalanced it is in relation to the other maxes. I don't hold any loyalty to any faction, nor do I allow bias to blind my views on balance.

    Because most people (like you), tend to ignore statistical facts, and instead base all their opinions on emotions derived from "what killed me instantly is op, NERF". NC max was op, it got nerfed. ZOE max was and still is op, it has and still will get nerfed. The only discussion at this point is what type of nerf is reasonable.
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  16. Fbwhytee

  17. Collin

    As a TR and playing Planetside for almost 10 years here is my opinion on the ZOE max:

    a) First of I think most of being said above is true to some degree. The ZOE is the best ability hands down BUT the users always overestimate their power and they get in situations where they can´t escape.

    b) With the new changes in resources it hurts the VS the most and the NC the least. Why? First a TR Max will never lock down at the very front and are aware of being a huge target being locked down. The "normal" VS player will charge with ZOE and die at some point faster. The NC maxes with the shield survive the longest and can use the ability tactical wise the most.

    c) The fact that the ZOE is glowing like an X-Mas tree doesen´t help either.

    If you compaire the abilites with planetside 1 its more in line then you think exept the lockdown is **** and will always be ****. There is not one situation where it is tacticalwise better not to move in a battle EXEPT you can put out indirect fire (bursters to some degree since the aircraft hopefully does not see you)

    Anyway my point is. ZOE maxes are very powerfull and usefull. NC Shield is for tactical outfits very powerfull and usefull. TR Lockdown is well lets say it inside a very tiny gab of this game powerfull and usefull. As a TR if i could choose what to take its for sure the shield for the reasons stated above.

    I am not saying there is a need for drastic changes the most i would say give the ZOE a timer or something like that but to be totaly true i could not care less because one good AV-Nade and the whole story is written.
  18. Fbwhytee

    It's cute that you think the developers use statistics to decide whether or not something is nerfed

    I ignore 'statistical facts' that hold no relevance, and make no logical sense.

    You say yourself that the NC AI MAX was imbalanced. How, then, can the VS AI MAX be better, but not one single 'VS MAX OP' cry was heard?

    Probably because this 'statistical fact' has way too many variables to consider, and therefore isn't really a 'fact' at all.
  19. Timperium

    ZOE is fine. The increased 30% extra damage means you must use it sparingly in fights.

    Most competent ZOE users simply use it to reposition themselves and turn it off during large firefights. Leaving it on for lengthy periods against a lot of enemies is suicide in most cases.

    That fact is, people are just complaining because you see a glow and were killed by something. If there wasn't a glow, you most likely wouldn't even know the difference.
  20. Xasapis

    The funny bit is that with the recent changes in the bursters, the AA maxes are either crouched and immobile, or can't hit anything.