The Valkyrie is not viable without 6 seats.

Discussion in 'Test Server: Discussion' started by gnometheft, Aug 12, 2014.

  1. gnometheft

    As it says in the roadmap: it's role is to transport and provide close air support. The Valkyrie as an air transport in terms of worth is directly related to its main transport alternative, the gal, and it's use will boil down to what it’s capable of transport wise. If it is worth it to use these as transport at times, or if its only good at attacking. If the Gal is still just plain better at transporting, than the Valkyrie won’t be used in it’s intended transport role, it will just be used as a faster, lesser liberator.

    Why is 4 seats too small for a transport role?

    In every situation I can think of beyond 4 players, currently the Gal is the flat out better option. Let’s look at the cons of using valkyries to transport instead of galaxies.
    A) Most importantly manpower: If you use a valkyrie for transporting your forces, you need 3 pilots per squad, 1/4th of all your forces, constantly flying. In a platoon, That’s an entire squad of pilots. If you use gunners, that doubles to half your forces.
    B) It will cost more resources to pull valkyries compared to gals. PTS cost is 250 nanites. So for a squad that is 750 total nanites compared to 450 for one galaxy.
    C) Valkyries cannot be used to squad deploy.
    D) The chances of having 12 certed valkyrie pilots in the platoon compared to 4 certed gal pilots will be slim. Them having enough resources at the same time is Slimmer.
    E) Most often in battle there is no need for multiple drop points, and even so a galaxy can simply move slightly over to that position. Having additional places you can drop is meaningless. 4 galaxy drop locations is plenty when gals can simply move around the base you re assaulting.
    F) These things are basically prey for ESF’s. A gal is leagues and bounds more durable in general especially against aircraft.

    Why 6 seats?

    A) 2 per squad, 8 per platoon is a much more feasible amount to manage.
    B) Less people forced to fly = more forces on the ground. A transport should transport, if it doesn't have the carrying capacity, it’s just forcing pilots and gunners into the air.
    C) 6 seats does not harm any 4 man or fireteam operations. The valkyrie does not have to be a 4 seater to work well in upcoming 4 man fire teams.
    D) Not so reliant on having enough certed pilots with resources at the exact time you need to do a fast response to pull.

    6 seats will not render the Galaxy useless.

    A) Valkyries cannot carry maxes.
    B) Valkyries cannot be squad deployed into.
    C) Gals require less pilot/s to maintain and transport the same amount of people.
    D) Gals can take significantly more punishment.
    E) 1 Gal still costs less than 2 Valkyries. Valk cost could be increased to 300 ish if it got 6 seats as a trade off.

    So again, I think the Valkyrie in it’s current iteration will not be used for transporting as much as it will be used for attacking. There is not enough worth to use this at any time over the other transport options like a sunderer or galaxy. 6 seats or bust, however they fit, rumble or internal.
    • Up x 28
  2. Tommyp2006

    agreed. The other two don't need to be rumble seats, they'd be fine as just internal seats.
    • Up x 9
  3. Pikachu

    Transport vehicle? I thought it was meant to be small gunship. Like harasser is small gunthing on the ground. :confused:
    • Up x 1
  4. -Synapse-

    Not sure where those seats would go, unless the pilot and gunner don't mind people sitting on their laps.
    • Up x 1
  5. Colt556

    Not like they bother to model out interiors or player models inside them. Just say the people get composed into nanites.

    I agree that the valkyrie should hold 4 passengers instead of 2, two passengers really don't allow for any sort of ground operation and considering the community asked for a small TRANSPORT, it's kinda dumb that the valkyrie can't even deploy a single fire team.
    • Up x 5
  6. Tommyp2006

    It's planetside, you don't gotta explain ****.
    • Up x 1
  7. DaMann22

    I have been saying this all along. Its 4 seats currently make it more of an attacking air vehicle than a transport. I intend to use it more for transporting our fireteams to drop into the courtyard for quick deployment. If my Gal can get there safer and have a spawn point then whats the use of a Valkyrie.

    This thing needs to be more like a BLACKHAWK and not an APACHE. 6 Seats please!
    • Up x 2
  8. MrJengles

    Excellent analysis. Although I must say I'm surprised that SOE hasn't changed that yet after almost every comment in the roadmap said the same thing.

    Actually, 6 man is the only way it would work with 4 person fireteams = 1 x aerial fireteam + 2 x ground fireteams.
    4 man = 6 players flying and 6 on the ground
    • Up x 1
  9. BurntDevil

    theres zero point in this vehicle if you dont have 4 passengers. its inferior as a gunship to the lib when you take in account just the pilot and the gunner, and its inferior to the galaxy in all ways aside from ground farming.

    We dont need another farm machine, what we needed was a quick and hot insertion delivery system. Your mother would approve.

    It doesnt even need 2 more rumble seats, two interior seats would be fine. You could roll two triage medics and two engies in the air if you wanted to that way, and actual have a reason to even own the triage cert. I would NOT allow maxes in those interior seats though. thats galaxy's area of expertise and it shouldnt be infringed.
    • Up x 2
  10. ShadowViper

    I am also 100% for 6 seats instead of the 4. Having the 2 be warped inside works. I would still love if all 4 were rumble though.
    • Up x 1
  11. Globguy15

    I think you guys are looking at this new vehicle like it needs to be able to transport an entire squad when it does not fit that role. This vehicle is meant to transport small squads/fire team (i.e 3-4 people) and is no way able to take a full squad (12 people) hence why you take a Galaxy instead. Lets say your outfit leader wants to send a small reconnaissance team to scout ahead ,needs to call for an evac of certain people (these are perfect world situations) , or you and your mates are in a small squad and don't see fit to spawn a sunnder or Galaxy to get from point A to B the Valkyrie would come in handy. The way it looks it is meant to move a small squad from A to B with some type of defense hence you have a gunner and you can TRANSPORT two people meaning you Drop them of and pick them up when needed. It would be cool to see two Valkyrie's or one drop of two infiltrators onto the outskirts of a base that is preparing to defend against the front lines. The two infiltrators have been sent on a mission by their squad leader to infiltrate the enemy base and disarm it(meaning vehicle/infantry terminals) so the front line has an easier time pushing into the base. The infiltrators accomplish their goal and the Valkyrie evac team picks them up and takes them back to the friendly base. Other situations could occur only if you stop trying to make the vehicle itself into something different try playing outside you play style instead and have some fun with it.
  12. Colt556

    They could just make all four rumble seats and disable things they find broken. Four engis repairing midflight too strong? Make it so the repair rate is only effected by one or two repair tools and any more wont make it go faster. Four lock-on rockets too strong? Well just disable lock on rockets, or rockets in general. Stuff like that. There's ways to make four rumble seats perfectly balanced and I think it'd be better to have four rumble seats as well, otherwise the two stuck inside doing nothing would be kinda bored. At least let them fire their guns at things.

    Except nobody here is asking for the valk to transport a squad, we're asking for it to transport a fire team. As it stands the valkyrie is WORTHLESS as a transport. I mean honestly, what the bloody hell are two guys going to do? I mean if it could at least deploy a full fire team that'd be good and what we asked for, but two guys? Galaxy is for transporting a squad, valkyrie is for transporting a fire team, and currently the valkyrie can only transport half a fire team.
    • Up x 1
  13. BurntDevil

    Why would anyone bother to do that when you can just redeploy? Sure, you could drop them off, but they could also just take cloaked atv's in, and be less man and nanite resource wasteful. Picking them back up and taking them to a friendly base is just fantasy, you'd just redeploy after wasting your time hacking terms.
  14. gnometheft

    This. Extraction is meaningless for VAlkyries because they cannot carry maxes and everyone else can just redeploy.
    • Up x 1
  15. JesNC

    I doubt it wouldn't be viable without two more seats, but otoh adding two internal passenger seats shouldn't be that much of a problem development- or balance-wise.

    So thumbs up, I guess.
    • Up x 1
  16. Matt879

    Agreed, I don't care what others say. SOE, do it.
  17. Matt879


    The one answer to all questions: Nanites.
  18. Renuse

    Ok heres how I see it.

    Its a supporting aircraft, as such its not supposed to excell in anything in particular but agumenting your fireteam.

    As an aircraft it attracts a whole lot less attention than a gal hovering over a point.

    From and exterior perspective it doesnt present a large threat, helping to maintain a low profile, and transport either more effective troops to a point/target, or (OMGoOSH) sqad leaders with beacons...................

    And if that sqad leader has a whole sqad standing by for a drop (ie maintaining a dead body at warpgate) then the pop on the map is lower.....

    Dont forget we can still pull mossies, and Valks provide an excellent 'bait' for goot pilots, as well as areal awareness, having 4 dudes spot aircraft for a good pilot and aiding in the combat can be pivotal.

    This is a vic for small teams and tactics, this is not a stand alone, kill everything, im a 4 man wrecking crew 'all bow before me' aircraft. Its not a farming vic. Its not a fighter. Its a supporting airctaft.

    IDK about you guys but im going to use this air craft to do some scary stuff on live server. Though, I might have to use my brain. :O
  19. Renuse

    The questions you should be focusing on are; What can I transport that is so valuable? Infils for precaps, engies for sneaky mines/turrets..You know, team work.

    You also have to pay attention to the fact that its a 'support' unit. That means its not supposed to be taking hits like a gal, or dishing out damage and maneuvering like a ES fighter. Its an aerial aid in fights, not a mainstay unit.

    Next question is; How can I support people with this Vic? Well thats the fun part. Its pretty much limited by your imagination.

    There will probably be changes. Things will get buffed and nerfed. Regaurdless, as it is, this is a supporting air craft. Piling more rumble seats on it can make it pretty OP. Two heavies witg chainguns and rockes, AV grenades, and C4 on each wing? Tgrow in some triage to heal in the vic and an engie? That sounds like a wrecking house to me. Lancers? Lashers? Tank mines?! Imagine 29 tank mines falling on top of your little armor column. (4engies with util pouch) Yeah fricking right. What if they were all repping it with two medics at full triage in the bird? Common guys. Think.
    • Up x 1
  20. Renuse

    I meant 20* , but you could go up more I suppose with seat switching.