[Suggestion] The Ultimate Thread Dedicated to Refurbishing TR as a Faction

Definitely agree with anchor mode especially, never seemed to fit the Prowler and I'm disappointed to see they're planning on tacking it onto the TR MAX - granted it will be powerful with bursters though.

Agreed on all points.

I'd like to add to that:

TR needs an infantry visual overhaul more than VS needed it. A lot more. VS, even though a little bit silly purple, were still unique. TR design, on the other hand, offers nothing apart from idiotic looking goggles, other than that we're just generic and red (which is generic too). Bring back the old darker gray jumpsuit with less red on the armored parts (maybe, red stripes?). At this point, the only thing to do to make ourselves look less silly is to buy camo.

IF, only IF, SOE, you decide that NC has to come before us to be overhauled, you're going to deal with even less populated faction than it is now. TR players are tired of being boring and generic faction with no character or personality to it.

1-2) I suggest the horizontal recoil modification as NC have the Adv. grips to negate it should they cert into it. With TR, it's insanity that we don't have adv. grip on almost all of our weapons. With the NC, their lower overall ROF will mean that horizontal recoil would be far more manageable. Couple that with reduced bloom, and that means burst firing should be super accurate, even with the l/r recoil. Sure, full auto will be viable on some weapons, but by and large accurate bursts will define the NC midrange game. I'm not trying to hamstring the NC by 'dumping' the horizontal recoil on them. I just think it better fits their weapon attributes than the TR. This way, both factions end up with higher-skill ceiling weapons with distinctive feel, gameplay and tactics.

3) The additional damage was suggested on a case-by-case basis, with the intent that any weapon suffering a heap of side-to-side bounce should hit hard, even with a low ROF. Imagine a Gauss Saw minus the attachments, in carbine form. You'd need that damage to remain competitive, and seeing as it fits faction flavor, I say it's worth pursuing this line. It'll turn NC as a whole into close-range MONSTERS, which has always been kind of their thing. Obviously, across the board damage buffs would be bad considering the already-low TTK of this game...but whenever any NC gun appears to be underperforming, I'd look at damage as a means of redressing the situation. Moreso than anyone else, NC should hit harder per-bullet.

A lot of the problems with TR is the design philosophy that weapons intended for longer range should have a lower fire rate and weapons for up close should be faster. Which means at launch the TR ended up a faction that was better up close while the NC was better at range (the flinch mechanic also played a role in this). However after a while players started unlocking things and SMGs and Shotguns came out which pretty much put all the faction on equal footing when it came to close range. However the TR has no really effective range weapons as most of our "ranged weapons" are mostly copies of the up close ones but with a lower RoF (same damage) and labeled as "more manageable recoil". The NC has slower rate of fire weapons for their ranged but they also do more damage.

The 2 philosophies for the TR and the NC create quite the conundrum when it comes to balance. How do you make something have a high RoF and accurate equal to a weapon that has a lower RoF and less accurate? If you make them both have the same DPS the NC one will be inferior since it is going to miss a lot and drastically lower its actual DPS. If you raise it's damage to compensate for it's inaccuracy then you will end up making the NC one superior up close while still being just as good at range.

1-2-3. We need to be careful we give NC a defined role and not many. Allowing them to be decimator's long range with burst fire while at the same time having them be really powerful short range may push them over the edge. I do like your idea a lot about letting TR cert into their guns like the NC can. I admit I'm envious I can't put 600 certs into a TMG 50, or my Carv like the NC can with their Gauss Saw.

3. If a gun by nature has really bad horizontal recoil their's probably reasoning behind it. That usually means it packs a big punch yes, however why not just use a semi auto shotgun if it's only good CQC.

Great post OP, signed for more unique faction traits. After all the balance passes thus far into the game the TR feel pretty generic.

As long as it stays balanced im all for giving us our birthright.

Excellent post Crayv.

It is a conundrum. Now I don't mean this in an OP/UP/nerf/buff type of way but I've always felt like NC have the best variety & admire that. Often they are given close range emphasis with shotguns, including their upcoming empire specific pistol. It's a trademark for them. But at the same time they are given medium-to-long range emphasis with higher damage & range dropoff weapons overall plus are also given unique 200 damage weapons. The middle ground, between those two, isn't hard to mitigate either. So where do the TR weapons come in now since shotguns & SMGs dominate close range? Maybe TR should be the medium range emphasis? But you can say VS fits into that even better currently. Although, I do believe every faction should be able to have fairly good equivalents for individual playstyles (I do love my TMG-50).

I think one issue is that almost all the weapons fall into the same damage & range tiers. There's not many unique stats in that department. I know it's based around how many bullets it takes to kill someone but in a game like this where damage comes from many places & multiple people (not pure 1vs1 all the time), I feel like those damage & range stats could have more variety.

For instance, for LMGs, all but one fall into either 167 @ 10 / 143 @ 75m or 143 @ 10 / 125 @ 65m. Why not try something different, such as an in-between, 155 @ 10m / 134 @ 70m (with appropriate ROF, etc stats)?

I agree with EliteEskimo. This needs to happen. Nuff Said

This said right there is the true fact that matters.
TTK without taking into account the field experiences that this game has to offer is not all that important, unless you only shoot at VR room .

HAIL ESKIMO!!!! HAIL ESKIMO!!!! HAIL ESKIMO!!!!

oh yeah and give us our cool armor from alpha back!!!!
EDIT: i tweeted this thread to higby, luperza, @planetside and malorn and arclegger... YES I DO WHANT THIS THREAD TO BE SEEN OK?!?!

The OP has expressed a profound lack of insight on the TR weapons. The TMG-50 is in the 167 dmg category of LMGs and as such should only be compared to other 167 dmg LMGs. Looking at the stats, EM6 > TMG-50 > Flare.

Also you continually assert that the Orion is a superior weapon to many TR LMGs. I do not know a single VS player who favors the Orion over any other LMG. The Orion's 50 capacity magazine makes it sub-par compared to the T9 Carv which has a 100% magazine capcity advantage, and the SVA-88 which has a compensator attachment option.

It is true that you have no highest-RoF carbine. However, did you know that your Carbines have 33% more magazine capacity than ANY VS or NC Carbine? This is a huge advantage in any situation in which you are facing more than one enemy.

Except you need those bullets to compensate for the inherent inaccuracy in our weapons. Oh yeah, and we don't have lightning reloads of the Vanu. Try again.

Come again? I was merely showing our weapons didn't have their faction traits and I'm perfectly aware that our carbines have more bullets. I purposely didn't highlight that area because carbine ammo capacity is one of the few traits we're still living up to as TR right now. Are you discounting the Vanu have basically the same ROF guns as TR , with a much faster reload time, and universally less horizontal recoil which can't be adjusted for with skill?

What weapon is so inaccurate that you need 33%+ more magazine capacity to compensate?

And about the reload speed... reload time doesn't matter when you've already killed your enemy with the extra bullets in your first magazine.

This^ SO MUCH!!!!! Also, at least for the TR MAX I would love to see the damage cut and half and the fire rate doubled. Same DPS more gatling gun feel.

Well when your weapons have more horizontal recoil, which is impossible to compensate for, it makes it harder to hit your target at just about any range.

Although I don't play MAX much outside of VR. I want to make a point about the guns in the game using our MAX as an example.

The TR MAX has four chains. Four. Onslaught, Mutilator, Mercy & Heavy Cycler. They are literally the same damn weapon, visually & in sound with small tweaks between them. It's incredibly boring. Deciding between two chain guns is a good thing. It allows for an individual to figure out which playstyle is best for them with that type of weapon system. But when you have four of the same, there's a real sense of "ran out of ideas...". There's no real variety for them visually & sound wise especially. I feel like this goes along with most of the TR infantry as well. I'm sure VS overall have this too more so than NC.

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Also I do think the OP made some mistakes with weapon comparisons which muddy up the conversation, as DeltaGun pointed out. But I hope the overall message is clear.

This needs to be seen, good job eskimo

Reload time doesn't matter when you already killed you enemy with the Extra capacity magazine.

Looking at a stats sheet of all weapons I don't see a specific trend for more Horizontal recoil in TR weapons. Mind being more specific? TR and VS seem tied for Horizontal recoil while NC has the least.