[Suggestion] The Ultimate Combined Arms Gameplay Thread

Indeed they did, and yes there is already code for Coaxial Guns on Tanks so it would be a really simple thing to implement if the developers decided to.

There exist handheld AT weapons that can kill tanks in a single hit. For example, the famous Javelin. What armchair generals on PS2, or any game, never consider is the logistics side of things. Yes these weapons may exist, but they are ******* expensive as hell and are only given out to specialized hunter-killer teams. Your average squad does NOT get these. Often they wont get any form of AT weapon. Sometimes they'll be able to snag a few disposable launchers like the AT-4. But those aren't really effective at killing MBTs. They can disable them with a well-placed shot, but otherwise aren't very deadly to tanks.

People on games just assume that every single squad gets access to these powerful weapons, and they don't. I wouldn't mind that sort of setup in PS2. Make it so you have to deeply specialize and give up almost everything else in order to get access to a Javelin-like AT launcher. You'd have zero AA capabilities and very, very limited AI capabilities, yet you get a sure-fire tank killer weapon. Make the rockets cost resources and only resupplied at terms and I think that's perfectly fine. But 99% of infantry do not get access to these weapons. So no, in the broad scope of things infantry are not significant threats to tanks unless they're a specialized team.

I meant that you can't really achieve anything with the current resource system.

Increase the tank cost to 450 ?
Sure, now watch how one faction becomes deprived of tanks for another 30 minutes after spawning one while the other isn't.
I think you can toy around with spawn restrictions and crew requirements for MBTs; not much with infantry
resources.


If anything rocket launchers have a range issue, focus on that; by adding another step of coordination in firing rockets, you can effectively tone down lone HA efficiency while not entirely killing Rocket-nests.

If you manage to group a dozen of HA + a medic + engineers + AA MAXes on top a cliff, it's entirely legit to create a no-drive zone. What you're complaining about is how many rocket launchers they are out of those situations.

Even better, I can bring you a very quick list of fixes that could solve your issue entirely:

-All lock-ons have their range reduced to 200m against ground
-Infiltrators can mark tanks with the dart gun (or binoculars, or laser-tool)
-A target marked with the Dart gun can be locked up to 400m

There, finished. I'd only take a single infiltrator to compensate for the loss of range, which any coordinated squad can pull off.

Even if it takes a little tweaking for ESRLs, you can certainly solve the issue fairly easily.

Vehicle resources are quickly gotten and if you want them back really bad you can always switch to another content where your faction controls it and wait till it fills back up. An entire faction shouldn't be tank deprived for 30 minutes unless they drive all their tanks off a cliff or go into a battle with no infantry or air support at all. My idea will make tanks strong, and the medium-high skilled users will be able to keep their tank alive for a significant enough time to be deemed satisfactory if they want a dedicated role in a tank.

Infantry resources are a trickier fish to fry, but something simply must be done about rocket spam. In particular rocket spam on mountains and canyon walls, which are maintained by ammo boxes alone, as was displayed in the videos I posted.

Feel free to post more ideas about the infantry rocket spam problem, I'm all ears.

I feel like a good step would be a universal resource instead of 3; no one really fights for a territory thinking "That'll kill off their resources !" because as you said, you can just switch continents.

If eventually you have a single resource, you can try implementing rocket costs, so spamming tanks/air will reduce your ability to spam rockets... but then again, take care of snowballing.
I'm completly in favor of making MBTs more bulky and hard to obtain though. The traffic jam at towers is a shame.

Post above

But you forget; for every troop of tanks deployed to the field, you have 3 BATTALIONS OF INFANTRY. Let's restate that. For every 4-5 tanks deployed, you have 2100 foot soldiers with light AT weaponry (somewhere in the vicinity of 150 light rocket launchers and 100 heavy rocket launchers), and roughly 75 highly mobile tank/air hunter teams armed with Javs.

Until rarity is employed like IRL, then IRL loadouts are completely irrelevant.

RESUME OF THIS LAME POST;

NERF INFANTRY BUFF VEHICLE.
Sugestion for op; l2p

Reduce all Lock On and guided weapon down to a 350m max range.

IRL Loadouts are totally relevent unless you want a game that in no way reflects real life. If you do not want a combined arms game just keep dishing out anti vehicle weapons to every single infantryman spawned on the map (i.e what we have now)

This future solider model we have now where everyman is a lone tank killer is fine. But in this future tanks would not exist.

Totally relevant UNLESS you want a game that reflects real life? Do you even know what you're talking about? If you do, please, try explain to me what you're saying. I have no idea what your point is. You seem to be making contradictory statements. You're saying IRL is irrelevant, but you want it like IRL? You want game realism but without game balance? I honestly don't know what the thrust of your argument is. By all means, expand on your post...I don't like being confused when I'm sure you have a point.

What the hell are you on today? Your first posts were complaining about stuff that was prefectly addressed in the OP, yet you acted like it wasnt mentioned/existed (Spammable VHC´s, solutions were presented yet ignored)

Tanks dominate open areas? What are you smoking, I want some of that, NOW! A tankers worst nightmare is an open area atm, ever tried attacking stuff like Indar Excav as a tanker these days? You have 0 cover, you have AV Manas/HA´s spamming you with rockets that don´t render and can Alpha you.
Tank´s dominated open ground when the worst they had to fear from Infantry was the occasional DEDICATED AV Lock-On. Any tanker who isn´t suicidial will avoid open areas at any cost, the only way to have a chance for survival is having cover available at any time. You can´t spam IR Flares as fast as Strikers&Co can lock you, not to mention Phoenix/AV Mana´s.

I can only applaud the OP for this thread, it is addressing the worst problems PS2 has as mixed an arms game, and at the same time presents balanced and well fleshed out solutions. SOE should take this to heart and implement it ASAP. Everyone is tired of paper VHC, that are spammed as hard as if they were infantry.

And they should oneshot vehicles. Also, tanks shells should cost resources. Also, magical repair tool should be removed. Go to a tech plant to repair your tank slowly.

There is no such thing as "C4 spam", C4 cost 100 resources, and it takes two to kill a cowardtank.

I don't even have flares, and I am not a good pilot. But I don't remember myself dying to a lock-on. Stupid dumb hovering lolpodfarmers die even to dumbfires or slow clumsy Phoenixes.

stopped reading there. Engi can't combat Air

You have no idea what you´re talking about. I wasn´t referring to Aircraft here, but to tanks. And if you chicken away at every Lock you receive as an ESF you sure don´t die to them often or at all, but you wont get much done either. As for Lib´s, Lock-On´s are an entirely different beast, if a Liberator commits to an attack it can´t just afterburn away within a second.

How do combined arms work:

1. Infantry is the main force, most adaptable, but most vulnerable. Infantry does the job and uses different tools to get the job done.

2. Armor and air are tools to support infantry and help infantry do its job. They deal lots of damage and can survive what kills infantry, but they are vulnerable to AV weapons, including infantry AV weapons. That's why armor and air need infantry to protect and maintain them. No infantry support = armor and air quickly dies to specialized AV and AA weapons.

3. Armor and air are supposed to give friendly infantry benefits over enemy infantry, not to just roll by themselves. Vehicles are not supposed to stay without infantry escort.

What happens when in real life armor rolls in a killing zone full of landmines and RPGs? It gets instagibbed. Landmines immobiize it, and RPGs hit vulnerable spots. It needs either artillery / air strike, or infantry to go and clear the place.

In PS2 tanks need to do more anti-infantry damage, so they could be used as a tool to help friendly infantry against enemy infantry, but no more durability.

Actually, combined arms gameplay is not that bad in PS2. Every time I can't get to a capture point because a tank guards the "street", I see the proper use of an armor. It is a tool to support infantry.

Combined arms does not mean "infantry can't take out tanks, tanks rule this world". Combined arms means "infantry uses tanks as a tool".

"Chicken away"? Oh, I see, "cool pilots" want to hover a farm. They are so annoyed when they have to actually work. Yeah, you have to pop flares / "chicken away" and repair, nt just hover and lolpodfarm.

How do I use my Reaver: find a tank, hit it in the back, afterburn away, break lock-ons. Sometimes I snipe turrets / MAXes from a great distance. Of course, not much certs, infantry lolpodding is way more profitable.

I shortened your infantry post a bit. I stopped reading after the heavy post, then skimmed the rest of your wall of text. You are simply waaaay of on the heavy and infantry play. Why do you think that every single infantry guy wants the ability to destroy vehicles?

You dont want balance, you want vehicles to return to being ridiculous OP, going back to the old "+20 MBT tanks sitting outside bases just spamming AoE". You could make the MBT require 6 crew and you would still have +20 MBTs outside bases as long as they will melt anything in sight. We saw it with the prowler spam, often we had +30 prowlers sitting outside the capture points and then maybe 2 guys on the capture point.

You cant balance power around crew, why do you thing they nerfed the libs?

There will never be real "combined arms" play in PS2, since the base design just wont allow it. Bases needs to be a lot bigger and promote ppl to leave their vehicles and actually take the base on food.

You can make vehicles cost 750 resources or crewed by 6, unless you make a hardcap on vehicles they will be spammed if they are good at killing things and highly resistant to dmg.

Sigh, not everyone who doesn´t run the second he gets a Lock is an "evil hoverspammer", infact there aren´t many of those left anyway, because the people who still fly are usually seasoned enough by now to be constantly moving. The ones who still try to spam get annihilated faster than they can blink.

I was merely trying to tell you that, unless you run everytime you get a lock, as in flare + ab + wait for CD, you will get killed by Lock-On´s. Especially when you´re up against TR, who by now carry the Striker as their weapon of choice for almost every HA. If you ignore one Lock or have CD on flares, and still fight on you probably end up in pieces. And don´t tell me you can simply shake rockets, because that heavily depends on the terrain and the situation.

Made a TL : DR for your post aswell. And aside from that you are so utterly wrong. You can very well balance VHC/Air around crew, resources, cd. 7/10 Tanks are 1/2 atm, if you force them to be at the very least 2/3 to use the main turret you will already reduce their number. If you also increase the CD drastically while at the same time increase resource cost it will make them very unattractive for lonewolfs who didn´t even bother to put certs in them.
It´s only a matter of how you adjust resource cost and CD. And Liberators got nerfed because people were too dumb to stop spawning at lost bases, and stubbornly ran out into the open to get zephyr´d. Try flying a Lib now in a large engagement, even staying at the edges and being vigiliant with 3/3 and a good crew you more likely than not get killed.
I don´t agree 100% with the OP, for example Rocket Resource costs, but most of what was said was pretty darn good.

TLR

You like tanks
You suck when you play infantry and air vehicels
You want tanks to be buffed
You want infantry to be nerfed
You want ESF to be nerfed
You want to dominate the battlefield with the role you like best
You present vids with false evidence
You are a troll