[Suggestion] The TR TRAP rifle also needs some serious love

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Tanelorn, Oct 3, 2014.

  1. Tanelorn

    We are all focused on the Striker issues post Oct-2 patch. That one is really obvious and is getting lots of feedback. But another TR weapon is severely underpowered as well and has kind of slipped under the radar: the TRAP scout rifle.

    The TRAP is the faction specific 1000 cert select-fire rifle for the TR. It has a horrible damage profile. This rifle has been out for quite some time and received no adjustments to make it a useful choice compared to other rifles.

    TRAP rifle:

    Effective Range:
    Fire Modes:
    2x Burst,
    3x Burst,
    Max Damage:
    184 before 15m
    Min Damage:
    167 after 85m
    Reload Speed
    Short Reload:
    Long Reload:
    Magazine Size:

    99SV Standard issue semi auto scout
    Muzzle Velocity:
    Effective Range:
    Very Long
    Fire Modes:
    Headshot Multiplier:
    ADS Move Speed Multiplier:
    Max Damage:
    400 before 10m
    Min Damage:
    334 after 85m
    Reload Speed
    Short Reload:
    Long Reload:
    Magazine Size:

    The TRAP requires 3 shots to hit to outperform a single hit by the 99SV. Using the 3 shot burst brings in your effective range to the point that you are no longer using the TRAP as a scout rifle. The 2 shot burst is difficult to land both shots beyond medium range. The single shot is pointless. Having very low damage per shot like the TRAP does not make sense for ranged fire, as it is just too easy for a lightly damaged enemy to retreat into cover and recover from your fire.

    The TRAP can be used effectively. You can get kills with it. But not in any situation that an alternate weapon wouldn't perform better. I recommend the following changes:

    1. Greatly increase the magazine size and total ammo. This approach is not OP because the weapon maintains its low damage per shot profile, but allows you to stay in the field longer. The TRAP requires a LOT of hits to kill if you aren't consistently scoring headshots. You burn ammo to get kills, and run out of ammo quickly. This also matches the TR idiom of lots of bullets downrange.

    2. If not 1, then increase the damage per shot. This is less in line with a TR specific weapon, but it will accomplish the same thing. 2 shots with the TRAP should equal 1 shot with the 99SV. Why? Because this is a scout rifle and 2-shot mode creates a burst cone of fire that is ineffective at long range. As single shots are currently worthless, it will make single shots more useful and bring the 2-shot burst in like with other scout rifles. The 3 shot will be more powerful than the scout rifle, but in all cases but close range it is likely that the 3rd shot will miss. The 3 shot mode is more to increase the chance of SOME bullets hitting the target. In the range where 3 shots can be expected to all hit, a SMG will greatly outperform the TRAP anyway.

    Thanks for reading. Please keep the fires burning on revising the TRAP. It is our empire specific weapon that is severely underperforming and needs help!

    - The TRAP under performs in comparison to alternatives
    - Revise by greatly increasing magazine size or increasing damage per shot.
    • Up x 2
  2. Xasapis

    The TRAP is in a pretty good spot, if you compare it to the rest of the rifles it was introduced with:

    7316 - TRAP-M1 | KPH | Daily Average: 25.09
    7337 - Phaseshift VX-S | KPH | Daily Average: 20.37
    7301 - AF-8 RailJack | KPH | Daily Average: 19.69
    • Up x 1
  3. Reccettear

    a friendly kick in the face to all ppl who try to make points with ingame statistics...
    EDIT: in case anyone doesnt get it, this junk is being used by 5 ppl who play REALLY good, out of 10 total users....

    fun fact: this thing is actually listed as a sniper rifle

    i think, if the bursts were recoil-stabilized (something that might somehow explain the look of it) it might have a place. CoF-Bloom still applies, so it would be possible to triple headshot, but only to some distance when CoF creates misses. being a sniper rifle it should have 210% headshot damage like all the others anyway, so it would kill that way, nanoarmor or not. beyond that distance, one might opt for 2x 2-burst to counter the CoF.
    advantage over default basr: close-midrange usability
    disadvantage: less effective over range, lets say 2 burst working up to 150m, 3burst up 100m. beyond that it becomes useless.

    would feel like a unique, usable weapon at least
  4. Tanelorn

    I appreciate those values, but KPH is an indication of usage and popularity. The weapon effectiveness / performance compared to others in its class is only indirectly connected to KPH. If a less effective weapon is still chosen more often and used more often than its alternatives, it will still produce a higher KPH. We would have to look at usage statistics which I couldn't find.

    One useful stat is just the DPS. As per DasAnfall stat site:
    99sv: DPS 1538
    TRAP: DPS 920

    The TRAP does .6 the DPS of the 99sv semi auto scout rifle. Combine that with the fact the TRAP requires a successful 3 shot burst to outdamage a single shot of the 99sv. That's pretty telling!
  5. gigastar

    Why are you comparing a scout rifle to a sniper rifle?
  6. Ogopogo

    Because the TRAP has the effective range, attachments, and handling of a scout rifle. If you want to compare it to sniper rifles, it is still a terrible weapon
  7. Skooma Lord

    I think the Battle Rifles should functioned like the T.R.A.P. from the start.

    The T.R.A.P should of had something else like a second barrel that shot like an S.M.G. or something like that. When you switched firing modes it shot out of the second barrel so you would still have an actual gun that behaved like a sniper rifle.
  8. Tanelorn

    The 99SV and the TRAP are both in the sniper rifle category officially. I used the term scout rifle but that was just my own phrasing. I think the TRAP is likely closer to a scout rifle. Perhaps I should compare it to the HSR-1 then? It similarly is outperformed by that rifle as well.
  9. Ztiller

    The Trap can get attention after the ZOE, Spiker and Phaseshift have been fixed.

    The TR have now been given buff after buff and rework after rework, while simultaneously demanding nerfs to everything good about the VS (Lancer, PPA, Orion, Camo)

    It's time for the TR to take a step back and let the other factions get their well deserved attention.
  10. CorporalClegg

    That's because the TR has a seriously lacking arsenal due to nerfs particularly in the AV dept. VS need to stop acting like whiney victims; it doesnt buy you any sympathy points.

    On topic: wasnt the original ES sniper rifle idea for TR a belt fed bolt action? Why not just make the TRAP belt fed? Wouldnt take a lot of work from devs, it just needs a much bigger magazine. Not having to reload often balances out low dps.
    • Up x 1
  11. LenaQuin

    The TRAP isnt a sniper rifle (even tough it is listed as one), so comparing it to sniper rifles doesnt make much sense.

    You should compare it to auto scout rifles like the SOAS-20 that have roughly the same playstyle.
  12. OldMaster80

    Imho the TRAP is not so tragic, but that weapon has always suffered an identity crysis. It's classified as sniper rifle but it's a Scout Rifle. There is no way you can effectively snipe with that.
    The biggest problem is the TRAP has a decent damage only as long as it's used in the 3 burst shot and at close range. But for those who want to play at close quarter there are tons of excellent alternatives in the Infiltratror's armory, and many outperform the TRAP (the other Scout Rifles and SMGs do the job much better within 20 mts, imho).

    The 2-bullets mode doesn't deal enough damage and you can barely see the difference in recoil compared to the 3-burst. The single bullet mode is almost ridicolous: it deals basically the same damage as the VS Beamer. Are we really supposed to kill someone beyond 85 mts with that? o_O

    The 3 fire modes were supposed to make the weapon flexible so that it should fit different types of engagements, like some kind of jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none. But the truth is only 1 is effective, while there's no real reason to switch to the others.
    • Up x 1
  13. K2k4

    Stop trying to snipe with it. Use it like you would a shotgun. Find a good hiding place and ambush people with it. From 15-30 meters it's a beastly gun that makes almost no noise when equipped with a silencer.

    The only problem I have with it is it is not a basr and doesn't fulfill that role, where the other essr's were intended for sniping we TR got a scout rifle.
  14. Tanelorn

    I agree the TRAP is ineffective for sniping. But it does seem suited for mid range, and close range with 3 shot burst as you move from point to point.

    Specifically using it for close range is a mistake, as you should equip a far more effective SMG instead. If the TRAP is only useful in close range, it is a failed weapon in concept.
  15. Peasnriz

    Both the Phaseshift and the Trap need a rework. Having not played with the Phaseshift I can not really comment, however I find the Traps recoil pattern makes it pretty much unusable in anything other than single shot mode outside of 20 meters.
    If they made the recoil pattern more like the Sabre, tinkered with some of the stats like cof when moving and buffed the ammo magazine it would be an interesting weapon to have in the arsenal.
    The usage statistics of the weapon show that hardly anyone is using it while that is an isolated statistic it does seem to indicative of the lack of any reasonable niche that the weapon can be expected to perform well in.
  16. ATRA_Wampa-One


    Honestly, the two problems with the Phaseshift is that #1 it's horrible as a support weapon but this is canceled out by it being the best farming weapon in the game, and #2 it doesn't have access to a 4X scope which would actually go a very long way to solve the first problem.

    Spiker I would say is actually our second best sidearm (which says more about the Cerberus and Manticore being crap than anything else) but things like the PPA being worse than the old Canister now, ZOE being total garbage for over a year now, and our AR selection being a choice between the Terminus and NS-11a are the biggest issues for VS.

    Oh, and before anyone thinks I don't know what I'm talking about with the Phaseshift...

  17. ColonelChingles

    Actually most KPH stats take into account the overall usage of a weapon. In other words generally KPH is:

    Total number of kills made by a weapon / Total number of man-hours of weapon usage.

    So if you had 50 kills across the server with a weapon used by 10 people for 2 hours each, the KPH would be 2.5 [50/(10*2)]. KPH sees that there were a total of 20 hours of usage.

    In your example of a weapon that is used be more people more often, KPH would not be directly affected. Consider these two examples:

    1 person uses a weapon and gets 5 kills after 2 hours of use. The KPH is 2.5.
    10 people use a weapon and get a total of 50 kills after 2 hours of use each. The KPH is still 2.5.

    So popularity of use doesn't directly affect KPH. Of course if the TRAP is only popular among high-level users and not among low-level users then you might have some KPH issues.

    There are a few other caveats with KPH, but none that really crop up if you compare one sniper rifle to another. Then again the TRAP is rather unique among sniper rifles, so comparing it to the short-range bolt-action rifles or the scout rifles might be more appropriate.

    DPS isn't everything... otherwise the Prowler's Vulcan would be the most powerful MBT weapon! :p This is why performance stats are generally more useful to see how a weapon performs versus weapon stats.
  18. _itg

    All three of the ES sniper rifles need another pass. The Railjack would easily be the best if these three guns were the only sniper rifles in the game, but it's useless because it's just a downgraded version of a gun all three empires have (the tier 3 bolt action). If they'd remove the trigger delay, it would be fine. At the very least, they could return the mag size and reload speed to tier 3 numbers, because the delay already more than cancels out the benefit of the extra velocity in most situations.

    The Phaseshift is a semi-auto sniper rifle with a charge mechanic for OHKs. If semi-autos weren't terrible to begin with, this would be a good gun. I'd like to see SASRs get buffed in general and have these buffs carry over to the Phaseshift. As for what those buffs should be, well, that's another thread.

    I'm no expert on the TRAP, but maybe reducing the FSM would help, in order to increase the range of the one-burst kill and make the 2x burst more useful in general.