The TR problem is deeply related to its faction trait

That's an interesting argument, brought frequently by people from all three empires. Well, depending on who has a loss recently anyway.

Not this again.
Let's compare the MSW-R, the EM1 and the Flare
MSW-R:
750 RPM
143 at 10, 125 at 65
DPS of 1787,5 or 1562,5 at max range
3,045 short reload, 3,305 long reload
50 per magazine, 250 in pool
crouch still: hipfire 2,25, aim 0,1
bloom per shot: hipfire 0,1, aim 0,05

EM1:
652 RPM
143 at 10, 125 at 65
DPS of 1553,93 or 1358,33 at max range
3,5 short reload, 4,465 long reload
100 per magazine, 400 in pool
crouch still: hipfire 3,5, aim 0,1
Bloom per shot: hipfire 0,1, aim 0,05

Flare:
577 RPM
167 at 10, 143 at 75
DPS of 1605,98 or 1375,18 at max range
4,24 short reload, 5,225 long reload
75 per magazine, 300 in pool
crouch still: hipfire 3,25, aim 0,03
Bloom per shot: hipfire 0,12, aim 0,6

Hey! The MSW-R has a higher DPS, faster reload and similar aim capabilities as the EM1. It has a higher DPS but better aim capabilities than the Flare. The advantages of the EM1 and Flare are more damage per bullet and more bullets in the magazine, but since they have less DPS they are less likely to be able to use this when the TR outdamages them and kills them.
TR will have "more" problems with aim. He will suffer the same bloom per shot faster than the NC, and while the VS have more bloom per shot they also have less shots per second meaning less blooms per minute. This can be offset, however. Since the TR have higher DPS they can sacrifice some of that to let their reticule settle with trigger discipline, giving them a higher accuracy and the hits they need for a kill overall. At closer ranges they don't need trigger discipline, and their higher DPS will speak for itself.

On to some Carbines, just for grabs (please note, if there's other weapons you want compared for all fairness, do it yourself. I picked an LMG line randomly, I hope the right equivalants are in the same place on the Wiki here:http://planetside.wikia.com/wiki/Light_Machine_Guns)
For Carbines we'll compare the default weapons: Trac-5, AF-19 Mercenary and Soltice VE3

Trac-5:
750 RPM
143 at 10, 112 at 60
DPS of 1787,5 or 1400 at max range
2,595 short reload, 3,7 long reload
40 per magazine, 240 in pool
crouch still: hipfire 1, aim 0,1
bloom per shot: hipfire 0,1, aim 0,05

Mercenary:
600 RPM
167 at 10, 125 at 70
DPS of 1670 or 1250
1,8 short reload
2,75 long reload
30 per magazine, 180 in pool
crouch still: hipfire 1, aim 0,03
Bloom per shot: hipfire 0,12, aim 0,06
so despite having better starting aim, after 7 shots the Mercenary has similar aim properties as the Trac-5, after that the Mercenary has worse aim per shot. The fact that it takes longer for the Mercenary to get there is not important, as the Mercenary deals less damage in the meantime as well. The Trac-5 can again use trigger discipline for better aim, it's sacrifice in DPS to do this is not a big problem.

Soltice:
698 RPM
143 at 10, 112 at 60
DPS of 1663,57 or 1302,93 at max range
1,65 short reload, 2,28 long reload
30 shots per magazine, 210 in pool
crouch still: hipfire 1, aim 0,1
bloom per shot: hipfire 0,1, aim 0,05

Soltice has similar aim as the Trac-5, but lower DPS and less ammo per magazine or in pool. The Trac-5 only suffers "worse" aim because it's got a higher RPM. If the Soltice got the same RPM it would get similar DPS and just as fast aim degredation.
The Trac-5 beats the Mercenary and Soltice in raw DPS every time, and in this case even has more ammo and thus damage to cash out per magazine and total. It's only real drawback is it's reload speed, which is almost twice as big as the other two weapons.

So I don't think most of your argument holds up, as your hypothetical weapons A and B don't have the same TTK and DPS. Unless you want to go through the trouble and compare every single weapon, be my guest. I just took a random shot in the dark and in both cases the TR weapon came out on top, at least from my perspective. From personal experience using them the TR weapons are far from terrible.
Oh, and higher RPM means you can spray and pray more, it means you can fire more bullets and pray some of them hit, and actually use it as a valid tactic since you do have enough bullets flying around to actually hit them by accident. It's not exactly a valid tactic in Planetside 2, but when you are not so good in aim it helps when you fire shots close to a target but due to the COF you accidentally hit them.

That's because, you know, you kill someone before you empty your gun. Or you force someone behind cover and have time to reload, which is called "supression fire".

I'm a bit confused here. "low bloom" and "good bloom" would sound the same to me. Do you mean that VS needs a high bloom per shot?
You mention that NC has "good bloom" but "high recoil". Bloom per shot dictates recoil, yes? Or do you mean vertical/horizontal recoil? The vertical and horizontal recoil of every weapon is easily countered (from my experience) so it wouldn't be a good substitute for bloom per shot as you need to stop firing to stop bloom affecting your COF, while you can keep firing and adjust your aim with vertical/horizontal recoil. I had to fire TR LMG's several times and hold my mouse still before I realised what kind of horizontal recoil people were talking about. But it's always almost the exact same recoil, so you can keep it on target by making the same movement every time again, plus some compensation for their direction.

Are you sure? I just checked the planetside 2 score's of last month. (https://www.planetside2.com/players...w=All&world=All&limit=10&name=Kills&start=180)
While the VS is very much represented, the TR and NC are about the same amount represented. At some point within the first 300 players I though you were right, but the TR has enough representation overall in them to be on-par with NC at least, it's just the VS that easily dominate the NC and TR.

Infographic: 0=miss X=hit #=headshot _in between is ~1/20sec @full auto
Generic NC:0__X__X__0__#__0__0__X[DEAD]
Generic TR:X_X_0_0_X_0_0_#_0_0_0_X_X[DEAD]
Generic VS:X__X__X__0__X_#[DEAD]

TR should have be the "burst faction" as that is how you retain accuracy outside cqc. VS have most accurate sustained accuracy. NC can afford to miss A shot.
Used a TI-89 Accuracy and Precision Statistics Applet. Used Bloom formulas.

Those actually aren't the right equivalent LMGs, they don't have them lined up in that kind of order. The closest comparison to the MSWR is the Orion and the Anchor.

Your carbine comparison is more on point. But the drawback that TR gets for those 10 extra rounds is as you note, a much longer reload time.

Good bloom and low bloom, meaning your weapon CoF bloom is small, good, low..not that much...haha.

And no, high recoil does not dictate your CoF, High recoil dictates how easy it is to keep the weapon on target. With high vertical recoil, it takes alot more effort to keep a weapon on your target over a long burst, as the weapon is kicking on you. Sure, you can counter it, but its goingto affect your accuracy to a degree.

PLus, giving a weapon high bloom and high recoil, that jsut makes it a nightmare to handle......then toss in slow RoF to boot? So not only are you not firing fast, your not able to accurately put your few rounds on target over a sustained burst. So, yes, high recoil is a good sub for high bloom. Slow RoF, high V Recoil, low bloom means you simply need to account for upward pull of the weapon to put your bullets on target and can put out good bursts of fire into your target, provided you as the player are able to counter the upward pull.

Meanwhile, TR Good initial accuracy, high bloom, low recoil. This means the TR are able to use their high RoF to get off the inital burst, and low overall recoil meaning they can easily keep thier guns on target. However, high bloom dictates they will need to pause after every burst of maybe 12 rounds to resettle bloom. IDK if you played with the CARV 2 years ago before it was nerfed, it was almost exactly what I am talking about.

It was really as simple as putting your gun on target, and pulling the trigger, firing off maybe 12-15 rounds and getting a kill. The gun had good accuracy, low recoil and moderately low bloom. IF you kept firing past maybe 15 rounds you would notice your shots going all over, but a quick stop of the trigger resets your CoF and you can dakka again. Given how CoF resets instantly, that works like...12 rounds, pause, 12 rounds, pause, 12 rounds pause...it made the CARV a moderately decent weapon, despite my initial hatred of it. CARV used to have what felt like no recoil at all...neither vertical, nor horizontal.

Now, the NC: High recoil, low bloom, moderate acc.....the old Gauss SAW you could do much the same thing as the old CARV, but now you had to contend with some pretty significant upward recoil, but your bloom was very low overall, allowing you to unload about the same number of 12-15 rounds, but due to the higher damage per bullet, those bullets got you more kills then a CARV.

As for VS, I dont know them well enough, but it seems a laser weapon would be low dmg, low recoil, good accuracy and not bloom that much as their isnt much feedback from the weapon firing.

I've got exactly the same problem - can't count how often I killed myself by reloading after killing someone(that and pressing F as engineer...)
Damn you CS habits.

I agree, change the GD-7F from 143 damage 845 rpm to 167 damage 704 rpm (Same TTK*, slightly lower DPS).
There ya go, an NC version of a 143 damage 845 rpm carbine.

Now do the same for the GR-22.
Change it from 143 damage 800 rpm to 167 damage 666 rpm (Same TTK*, slightly lower DPS).

*When I say "same TTK", it's actually about 0.2 milliseconds slower for the GD-7F and about 0.45 ms slower on the GR-22, but the PS2 software rounds those numbers to the nearest whole millisecond, so they are rounded to exactly the same TTK. )

I feel like that unless it has high vertical recoil and moderate horizontal recoil this would become the best carbine in the game.

Obviously the limiting factors such as bloom, horizontal/vertical recoil, etc. would be altered to adjust for the higher damage tier, but essentially they would essentially be the same weapon with the same purpose and same range limitations.

This would just make it more "NC" themed to remove the oddity of the high damage faction having uncharacteristically low damage high fire rate weapons, while not removing the same CQC weapon availability afforded to the enemy sides.

Ah, but the drawback is a long reload time, against 10 extra rounds and extra DPS through the higher ROF

"moderate to decent weapon"? It sounds like a beast of a weapon. 12 accurate rounds with a high ROF that almost guarantees a kill? Holy ****, that's a godlike weapon! Especially if you can pauze for a fraction of a second and go again...

I don't really understand how you define "low bloom". The NC Gauss SAW has a bloom of 0,14 for hipfire and 0,07 for aim. Where the CARV has a bloom of 0,1 and 0,05. I don't call 40% extra bloom per shot for the SAW "low bloom".

Look, high ROF isn't a problem anywhere unless your DPS is the same or lower than other weapons. Since your DPS isn't a problem and overall the CARV will always be more accurate than the SAW (unless the SAW user uses trigger discipline, severely hampering your DPS) and be able to cash out more damage.
Sure, high damage per shot and high accuracy for the first shot has incredible uses. The SAW is probably one of the best long-range LMG's out there and it's got incredible uses in several scenario's, but does that make it inherently better? Not exactly.
Also here is how recoil settles: you fire a shot, then the COF stays that large until you can fire your next shot. From that point on your COF starts reducing. So if you have a ROF of 60, your COF will only start decreasing after half a second. This means that high ROF weapons have a COF that is faster to normal size, just as they increase their COF size faster as well.
The same counts for reloading by the way. You start a reload when you would normally fire your next shot. This is evident in the Prowler: after firing it's last shot it takes half a second before he starts his reload cycle. He's got an RPM of 120, so half a second between shots. It matches up.

I'm not sure how the VS should be handled either, but looking at the top 300 players of the last month, the VS are completely over represented. They take half or more of the spots in the top 300, which is a damned large amount.

Especially when the 2 other factions get better versions of your weapons with the same or even higher RoF.

Fixed that for ya.

The larger magazine is nice and tends to make the guns more newbie friendly but the longer reload will hurt more vetran players. People on these boards seem to overvalue mag size and undervalue fast reloads (one of the reasons I love the Razor is for its lightning fast reload).

Well it is at close to medium range all other things being equal, not so much at long range though.

But then equally high Damage per Bullet really only has any advantage when it can one shot.

Dude! They are whining about the Hailstorm having a 0,03 slower TTK. A 0,014 TTK might be much lower in the math world, but in PS2 with the latency and a lag amounting to easily 0,2 delay or more, it is negligible for both. Opening this hole would give a sh*tstorm.
on topic I can agree. Stronger weapons with a lower rate of fire should feature more with the NC, and this change would facilitate that. I don't get why the NC hasn't got more 200dmg weapons either.
On topic, I think that the faction traits don't harm the TR. They have to be deepened for them and removed fir the others, but their weapons are crazy in my hands.

It really was a good gun and kinda fun to use. You could really embrace the DAKKA of the TR. Now, you gotta kinda burst fire everything, or your bloom flies out of control.

Lol, the SAW's bloom numbers are higher, but the CARV's RoF is 250RpM faster, which throws it's bloom numbers up way faster. They each can fire about the same number of bullets before really needing to settle the CoF. And my definition of "low bloom" is just that, low bloom....the post you were initially quoting was my idea of what id do to change the factions anyway. And by Low bloom for NC, I mean just that. If the current numbers are 0.14 and 0.07, I would make them somewhere around 0.08 and 0.04, while the TR would be more like 0.12 and 0.06.

But TR recoil numbers currently in game are anywhere from 0.3-0.45 while NC has guns that range from 0.4-0.55 in Vertical Recoil. Horizontal Recoil on TR is 0.2-0.225 and NC is 0.18-0.185. I would lower TR Horizontal Recoil to 0.2 for all guns, kep NC Horizontal Recoil the same and make NC guns no recoil lower then 0.45, and this for like a Carbine.

But likewise, no NC gun would have even minimum damage below 143@85m, while TR would have no guns over 143dmg.

Pretty sure they are. A lot of TR weapons have a low 1st shot multiplier making bursting favourable to full auto at range. I'm a big fan of the Cycler TRV for this very reason. Equiped with a grip/SPA + sight/scope of choice it is a CQC-mid range beast. At mid range you need to get a feel of how many bullets per burst you can fire before you lose it. Very rewarding weapon for players with good aim as you can down players extremely fast and have the bullets to spare for the next target, and if you are really good a 3rd.

The extra 10 bullets are very noticable on the TRV due to its 845RPM. This something the GR-22 and HV-45 does not enjoy, and they, like the TAR, have a rather unpleasant reload but also only have 30 bullets per magazine. This means you're often stuck reloading. The Serpent/GD-7F does not suffer as much though due to havin relatively fast reloads.

The Lynx is also oddly accurate in ADS, affording accurate and centered bursts.

As someone who plays all factions I simply do not get how so many can struggle with PS2's infantry gameplay.

Cool, but both Orion and SVA-88 (lol SV-88?) have HIGHER recoil than Carv and probably any TR LMG.
And Carnage is that AR with 750rpm and 0.75ADS? Well, it has high recoil too.
Check weapon stats first before you write something