The Spirit of the Game

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by N7Havoc, May 7, 2014.

  1. bPostal

    This is true, but each reader (in this analogy) filters their reading experience through their own personal experience. (This sentence reads oddly but I can't think of a way to rephrase it)
    Yes, the author has the 'purest' spirit of the novel but they must also realize that the audience's perception is going to be grounded and filtered in their own lives, past and expectations for the story.

    This is also true, but I don't think anyone in this thread is actively trying to say "XXX is OP because I don't like it" without the realization that what I don't like is something that You may like. No matter what, if a mechanic is 'wrong' then it's up to the player to rationalize their reasoning behind why it's 'wrong'. As you've said yourself in the quoted text above, there is a difference between constructively criticizing and attempting to force a given playstyle on the entirety of the playerbase.
    A vast majority of the responses in this thread (and likely represent the prevalent mindset of the playerbase overall) are along the lines of "I want to win, no matter the means" and I can understand that, even if I don't personally agree with it. It's when one person attempts to force their chosen playstyle on everyone else that causes the logical disconnect.

    It's reason and thoughtfulness that should dictate the spirit and direction of this game (not to mention the dev's intentions), not baseless complaints as one often finds on these forums.

    I agree but I think we also need to realize that a good lib crew is on comms and actively using a high amount of teamwork to achieve the results that they do. A proper pilot will ensure that the gunner has a good angle whilst watching out for more targets (ground and otherwise) while the gunner actively aids the pilot in ensuring that targets are prioritized and that the firing angle is optimal. Contrast that to two typical skyguards who may just happen to be parked next to each other.
    Unless I miss my mark, a couple skyguards will at least create a standoff or give the lib pause and if the game were balanced in such a manner that any one person were able to offset the efforts of two or more players then the impact of these players would be disproportional (and thus, imbalanced).

    EDIT: Hell, I'm surprised we've managed to stay on track thus far and not devolved into an overbearing rage fueled thread that yet another SOE Mod has been forced to shutdown. Nicely done all!
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  2. N7Havoc

    I'm quite pleased as well! Thank you for another well thought out post.

    What I've gathered so far is that a solid portion of the player base is committed to the win, no matter what tactic or weapon they have to use. And that's fine really, honestly it's expected.

    There's also plenty of feedback here and elsewhere from players who are frustrated with certain mechanics and might even look down on those who use them.

    I'm interested in seeing what would happen if I used a dumb-fire rocket as my primary for a week or so. Hell, I'll even pull out the A2A rockets. I don't know if I'd really do it but from what I see here it seems that the hateful messages I'd get for it would be from a vocal minority. Plenty of players might be content to lose to a "cheese" tactic. Of course there's nothing in the game that says I couldn't do this, but I can't help but feel that the game would be worse off if more people chose to do so.

    I knew that some feedback would be very negative here, but I'd just like to restate or clarify that this isn't my wishlist of things to take out of the game. This is just a conversation about the differences between what the game's rules allow and what the general feelings are in the community about what the rules are. Any basketball fans out there want to make a comparison to the rise in charging fouls? It feels like it's along the same lines, because this is a reality in all games.
  3. Simferion

    I've been a boardgamer since a long time. When I play I always play to win because the spirit of the game is trying to win.
    When I play PS2 I play to have fun, conquer bases and shoot enemies in the head.
    I don't use "all the means" because I don't cheat or use exploits.
    The spirit of the game is to do what the game allows you to do and try to mantain the environment either competitive (against opponents) or cooperative (for friendlies) using all the legitimate means.

    Trying to win is not a sin and not bad sportmanship.
  4. Jalek

    That's not the implication at all, but you got that straw man pretty good.
    Balance is the domain of the game developers, at the end of the day, if they want it to be heavily dominated by air, tanks, or BFRs, that's what will happen. Players can play or not, but that's all the impact they have.
  5. SnipersUnion

    I hate to be the one to tell you this, but those things are complained about DAILY. Especially A2A. I'd tell you to look a bit harder for places the community talks, but to be perfectly honest, you're better off staying away from it lol.
  6. Idle

    The air game is another beast all together. Sometimes the familiarity between pilots leads to pleasant conversations after a fight. Yesterday after exchanging “good fight” messages, a mosquito pilot said that he was sorry that so many other mosquitos jumped into the fight near the end. Seriously. Huge contrast to the infantry game here, when’s the last time someone apologized for having team mates? But that’s what I enjoy about the air game, there’s a sense of fair competition. This might be one of the causes for the nastier part of the air game, and that’s the hate that you will receive if you’re using A2A lock ons, coyotes, or if you ram into your opponent.

    I disagree with this statement with a passion. I play mostly infantry, but have tanks and air certed so I can be of use to my faction when these are needed.

    Infantry players who play a class a lot and run into each other often send tells saying well done, then talking over strat or play style and also saying its a shame other people came to the battle.

    Air honour? Don't get me started. It is one of the hardest skills in the game to master but most ace pilots I have seen on Connery tend to ruthlessly camp warpgates jumping new players as they fly out.

    They have my respect for being good pilots but as a group I do not think they have honour. I think of them as pro adult boxes who enjoy picking fights with teenagers just out of school.

    They impact the game for new players in a negative way who have no chance in a fight. Infantry and tank players don't go around talking crap about how well mannered they are, and how different they are to other play styles. They kill low levels just as hard as air do, just don't talk up how high minded they are above others.

    I have news for you aces. If you get rammed its bad flying by you. The times I get rammed are when I don't try and avoid the other plane. (firing to long and not moving out the way or saving some afterburn to do this.)

    I m not a ace flyer but I blame myself if I get rammed. If you want a dogfighting game with just guns a future war game is not the right option.

    Like I said I respect good flyers but don't make out you guys as a whole group are better then others. I m sure there are some flyers who pull out of attacks when they noticed how inexperienced the enemy was. To you people I tip my hat and say fair play but in my time in the game flyers are no better or no worse then other players.
  7. Juho

  8. Taemien


    The spirit of the game has two parts:

    To win the current alert.

    and

    To Capture the Continents your empire has yet to capture.

    All weapons and tactics are fair game in the accomplishment of the two goals listed above.

    Others' have different views on how the Spirit of the Game is supposed to be adjudicated. This is a weakness to be exploited. By using weapons and tactics deemed as 'against' the spirit of the game they become mentally compromised and make for an easier opponent. By doing that, it makes the above two goals closer to being met.

    To put it simply, if you have a pilot you suspect will be upset that lockons are used on them, then use lockons. Chances are if you are correct they're flying will become erratic and they will be more prone to mistakes such as running into hills, trees, and/or buildings. Sometimes they'll even suicide on purpose depending on how strongly they feel about the subject. Either way, thats one less aircraft.

    In the case of Shotguns or other cheap weapons. You can cause the opponent to try to fight fire with fire. This is when you switch to a longer range weapon and easily take them out. A good portion of the time they will simply logout and leave you with one less person to deal with. Do this on a large scale and you make an entire portion of the map easier to take.

    In the end, "cheap" tactics make the goals above easier to obtain. While this does have the con of lessening the number of players to fight, it has the added pro of causing the players left over to be of higher quality (meaning better teammates and more challenging opponents). I know many will disagree with this and unfortunately for them, they can't stop me and others who believe in this philosophy from continuing it. If the game dies, we'll declare it a win against an inferior philosophy and move on to the next game.
  9. bPostal

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not implying that you or anyone else here would stoop to using exploits or hacks. There are, of course, some that do obviously but personally I give everyone the benefit of the doubt until it becomes obvious otherwise (sometimes it's netcode and latency that means I get shot around corners).

    The only comparison I can give is from Starcraft and the idea of the worker rush. A player who executes such a move is trying to win as quickly as possible within the mechanics of the game. It's not 'cheating' but I feel that it does take some of the piss out of the game itself. Note that any opinion, even my own, should never forcefully dictate the actions of any other players. As has been stated, just because you dislike something doesn't make it wrong.

    When it becomes purely bad sportsmanship is when there is rude or excessive behavior on the part of the winning or losing team. Like a CS match where everyone on the winning team says 'GG' and the losers respond with 'Go **** yourselves'. That's the only solid stance that I can take, even if I feel like someone has cheesed their way to a win.

    Like I said earlier in this thread, I still think that the use of 'cheesy' mechanics results in accelerated frustration and eventual loss of new players, which are required to keep this game alive. A lack of fresh blood leads to stagnation and that is what makes me fear for this game's longevity.

    If this games dies, nobody wins. If you want this kind of experience there is exactly one game and one game only on the market that provides the scale and intensity brought by PS2. This kind of thinking is inherently toxic and should be actively fought against through the argument for better mechanics and better design. PS2 needs to be for the Planetside players and designed as such, not for those who simply want to play this game while waiting for the next installment of Battlefield or <insert generic FPS here>.

    To sum it up in a meme short of form: I just want everybody to have fun. **** me right?
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  10. Taemien


    Not my responsibility to coddle new players. Its my responsibility to play how -I- wish to play. You want to coddle new players, go for it. Make an outfit and teach them the ropes. But don't expect me to, I don't have time for that. Game has been out for nearly 2 years, so it it dies now, I doubt its because me. If it does die because of me, great, I call it a victory and will merely move on and continue in the next one.
  11. raw

    This is a very clever OP plz nerf post. Congratulations.
    • Up x 1
  12. hawken is better

    Weapons/vehicles that you cannot 'readily' fight back against. That ruins the game for me.

    "Oh look, I'm a terrible player, so I will go out of my way to use something that instakills you without giving you a chance to fight back. I am now a good player."
  13. bPostal

    I think that's just about the most selfish, short sighted thing I've ever heard a video game player say. There won't be a 'next one' with that mindset and the one that we currently have won't last with that kind of thinking.

    You may not care, but I do and your obvious ambivalence towards this game helps no one, not even yourself.
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  14. Taemien


    I've been playing video games since 1985 with that mindset, there's always been a next game.
  15. bPostal

    I'm talking Planetside games. Open world, large scale, combined arms combat. Not this cookie cutter round based, small squad TDM stuff. Of course there'll always be another one of those. Activision has gone the way of EA and their sports games, releasing what is essentially the same game every couple years.

    Look, if you don't give a damn about this game or what it brings to the video game market, fine. You need to realize though that it's in everyone's best interest to make this a game that will last because there's nothing else with the scale, scope, ambition or sheer potential. Even if/when PS2 dies it will influence the direction of the next team of developers in the next company when it comes time to create a replacement/successor/competitor.
  16. Snicklefritzll

    Spirit of the Game:
    I don't mind being killed with dumb-fire rockets...
    I don't mind being killed by Vanguard Shield...

    But if I pull an ESF at the warpgate and I'm immediately shot down by a BR100 ace pilot, whose faction owns three hexes and had to fly 2km over enemy territory just to camp wg, instead of helping his team gain territory.....Now that ruins the game for me. By far the worst sportsmanship in this game IMO
  17. DK22

    Everybody seems have covered the two things I think are not the spirit of the game,
    that's TKs, and rude racist smack talk, a little friendly banter is fun, but come on.
    Shooting Sunders because you missed your ride is a little rude, but I've never said anything about it.

    Only thing I kinda feel bad about doing is, as a HA, seeing two guys in the air going at it,
    and rocketing his enemy down. It kinda robs him of his victory butting in.
    I still do it though, for the team.
  18. N7Havoc

    Great example.
    Warp-gate camping can be a big issue sometimes, and it's definitely another tactic that gets looked down upon. I wonder though that the general feeling is about outfits who park sunderers and skyguards outside of warp-gate. Is it a more legitimate strategy when there's 48 people there? I ask because I hardly ever see this mentioned alongside the BR100 gank squads.
    Worth mentioning too that some of those aces who camp the warp-gate will send you a hateful message after you take care of them with coyotes. Some - not all.
    Everything in your first paragraph is definitely rude, against the spirit, etc.

    That feeling of "butting in" or robbing someone of their victory is interesting because it's common place in massive scale warfare but it can still feel a bit cheap huh?

    A while ago I stumbled upon a scythe and a mosquito in a close fight. This was on Esamir while there was hardly anyone online. I waited until the mosquito was close to losing... then I jumped the scythe and finished off the mosquito afterward. The scythe pilot asked me about it afterward, he wasn't really angry, but he said that while the continent is this empty and there's a higher TR population... why not let him finish his fight? And although I felt like I handled the 1v1v1 correctly, I did feel that what I did wasn't really necessary. The scythe pilot actually came over to NC afterward and we worked together.
  19. Taemien


    If people like me are enough to kill a game, then its concept wasn't good enough to stand on its own. But like I said, they're always be a next game. PS1 is still kicking, and thats got far worse cheap stuff to it than PS2 does. So I still don't see a problem.

    If anything more players like me would help newer players. People DO eventually kill the first goomba in 1-1. They can overcome rockets, shotguns, ect the same way. Its up to the new player to have the gumption to stick with the game and get better, despite the odds.

    No one was kind to me in the beta and I overcame. New players can take their baptism by fire too.
  20. Whatupwidat

    Only thing that spoils the game for me is smack-talkers who don't know how to do it properly. Ie, when their side outnumbers mine 10-1 and they yell "Run away little children" and stuff like that.

    Like...dude. Just facepalming totally. Those bad winners are almost as annoying as the "_____ is OP you noob!" crowd.
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