The Skyguard Is Not a Viable Deterrent

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Verviedi, May 14, 2014.

  1. Kid Gloves

    The problem with this is the skyguard doesn't have even close to the same options as the liberator when it comes to dictating the terms of the engagement.

    IMO the skyguard should win the DPS race at close range if both start firing at the same time. It should require the tankbuster lib to get in close and open with rear-shots that the skyguard is unaware of. If the lib pops up over a hill and into close range with a skyguard who is aware and waiting for it, it should go very badly for the lib. Badly in the same way as MAX vs C4.

    Reason is simple: lib can pick its terms of engagement, skyguard cannot with the same impunity. The lib always has the option to depart.

    From a purely balance perspective: the liberator is a 3-man multi-role vehicle that can quickly relocate to find something else to do. A skyguard is a 1-man single-role vehicle that cannot. Specialisation should trump generalisation. One skyguard should be enough.
    • Up x 4
  2. z1967

    Yes we are aware that Flak, by nature, stacks to make it impossible for air to enter the larger 48+ hex battles. If we nerf the speed and agility of Libs then they will be more susceptible to ESFs (their supposed hard counter) and it will discourage hover spamming as they will start taking hits and not be able to avoid them as easily. Make them more Gunship/Bomber as opposed to heavy Fighter-Bomber.

    That being said, the Skyguard is probably up there with the most specialized weapons in the game, being only purposed towards countering Air and only slightly effective at shooting infantry in ~10m or so because of the COF. If the Skyguard is going to have only one redeeming quality (AA effectiveness) than it needs to be really good at AA. I propose the following cert options being opened up for it.
    -Ex mags: This should have been here from the very beginning, I have no idea why it isn't here now
    -DC ammo: Skyguard gets repurposed for heavy AA using direct contact ammo (DC ammo). This ammo has higher velocities, more damage, low damage drop off, and can one clip Libs
    -Engagement radar: This should be added for all vehicles. Some people wouldn't like it but it will be useful for Skyguards and other AA focused builds

    All except the DC ammo already exist in the game and it would literally just be adding more options. DC ammo will be placed in the "ammo" option and will basically be another ammo type that you can equip and cert as opposed to regular Skyguard rounds.
    • Up x 5
  3. Takoita

    Just let us put the goddrat Shredder on our Skyguards already!
    • Up x 1
  4. Verviedi

    Why not an everythingbuster or Dalton? Maybe lockonrockets?
  5. nightbird

    The skyguard is in a good place with ESFs and can absolutely deter a lib. You can ask but won't get anything more than that, since ESFs (the libs hard counter) cannot 1 clip or even 2 clip a lib.
  6. Vortok

    The magazine size was initially a fair bit smaller. For awhile we asked for extended mags to go along with other forms of AA (Bursters, Walkers, etc.) having the option to increase their mag size. Instead we got a passive magazine increase + the reload speed cert was made slightly better as well. Made the dev intentions on the matter fairly clear and personally I certed the reload speed almost immediately. Still means there's not a ton to spend certs on to increase the effectiveness of a Skyguard loadout, but the magazine size increase is already included.

    Still don't like that a single Skyguard, as specialized as it is, can't effectively deter two dudes that decided to jump in a Lib and fly around without even bothering to have friendly air with them. Stronger flak isn't the answer, as it creates a mess when AA stacks and Libs should reasonably have the option to run away and/or decide to make a quick pass through the area, take some flak hits, and then leave rather than staying around. I don't like the answer being 'pull more AA' either and don't buy the 2v1/3v1 argument either - I just see it as one vehicle vs one vehicle. "Get a second Skyguard" basically just says that the answer is to gang up on people and throw numbers at the problem even when using something that's supposed to be a dedicated counter, but that doesn't lead to gameplay that's particularly interesting. It'd be one thing if it was a 3/3 Lib that was able to bring both the belly gun and the tail gun (both being guns decent for A2G of course, no Zephyr + Walker, heh) to bear against a Skyguard and beating it that way, but at the moment the effort required for a Lib to crush a Skyguard just feels very low.
    • Up x 4
  7. nightbird

    Remember that a skyguard is a tank deterrent to air, and a lib is a tank counter. You could compare this to an AP lightning being a tank destroyer but a 2/2 AP MBT being a better tank destroyer. You don't expect to win a front battle with a 2/2 AP tank in a 1/1 AP lightning right?
    • Up x 1
  8. Aircool

    Nah... I use a Skyguard a lot. Only a very good ESF pilot with suprise on their side can take on a Skyguard. I can put up a good fight against two or three ESF's and come out on top. Most of my fails come from C4 :)

    As for Libs. Yeah, they're a lot harder to kill now, and in a one on one situation with no-one else around, the Lib is gonna hurt you, and so it should.

    Only a determined group of combined AA can reliably take down Libs. However, the goal of a single AA element is to get the Lib to abort it's bombing run before it can do any damage. You don't get any kills, but it prevents your mates from getting stonked...

    ...which is kinda the whole point.
    • Up x 2
  9. MostlyClueless

    Yeah why should a 300 resource tank whose only entire role is to destroy aircraft get to kill them?

    I mean if that happens people might pull Skyguards to get some certs instead of doing it out of pure altruism and then where would be?
  10. Waffle Fartsparkle

    You can run both Top armor and Fire Suppression though. :I
  11. lothbrook

    Top armor isn't worth it, ESFs that have a brain won't engage a skyguard that sees them, and they will only come at it from the rear because any other direction a full rocket pod dump won't kill and you'll be eating a ton of flak and probably die. Against a lib i'm pretty sure 2 tank buster mags from any direction even to a side with added armor will still kill you, which isn't a problem for the lib because a full skyguard mag takes forever to unload and won't even put the lib into burning so they can take their time to reload and kill you, and thats without comp armor, lol.
    • Up x 1
  12. stalkish

    The problems with the skyguard arnt its firepower, its the fact that as a skyguard user you have to fight super fast, highly maneuverable aircraft whilst driving your vehicle. This inevitably means looking upwards away from the terrain whilst trying to avoid their fire, it can only end in the lightning up a treetrunk, or down a ravine, or smash into a building, or plough into your troops. Having to drive and shoot when your targets are in the sky is a very very bad deisgn idea.
    What id do is creat a vehicle that is lightly armoured, fast and has 2 players in it, driver AND gunner. Give it a flak cannon and a kobalt like gun. Now i wonder what it could look like.................
    • Up x 5
  13. Kid Gloves

    Wait a minute, that looks like a Skyguard!
  14. Aircool


    Plus, I like humiliating ESF pilots (the one's that panic and crash are the funniest), but that's only because my ESF skills are really, really poor.

    As for the current Libs. The only problem I have is choosing which one to shoot at.
  15. Silus

    Dunno what the OP is smoking, Skyguards are hella dangerous. Tech Plant alert, NC's pushing on Esamir to buffer Eisa Tech. The TR are out in force and must have had 5-8 Libs, about 3-6 Mossies and brought in about 3-4 Gals over the course of the engagement. Myself and two Outfit members (on TS) with Skyguards cleared the skies in less than five minutes and kept them clear until we got orders to ship off to Mao.

    And you know what? We cleared the skies there. And murdered a few tanks when the aircraft ran out (I think I accounted for at least two Lightnings and half a Prowler).
    • Up x 2
  16. Verviedi

    There were more than one skyguard and ythe drivers were on TS. I don't even own a mic, and my friend cannot afford a skyguard
  17. Rak

    I wish SOE would buff flak because I don't feel like communicating with my friend and he's too lazy to work towards getting a skyguard anyway.
    • Up x 1
  18. RyanGUK

    Thread basically says:

    Skyguard isn't the problem, Liberator & Galaxy flak resistances are the problem. ESFs are fine.

    And for every person who says Liberators are OP, there's always somebody there to say ESFs are their only counter.

    Think I saved a few people some reading there.
  19. z1967

    1000 certs for the most specialized weapon in the game. MIght as well just spend 100 certs on the TB and then cert out your shredder if you have that many certs to blow.
  20. Rak

    My friend and I each spending 1000 certs, and thereby gaining the ability to shut down an entire aspect of the game in an 800m bubble, seems like a pretty fair deal.
    • Up x 2