The Real Reason for (insert faction here) is OP threads

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by a-koo-chee-moya, Aug 17, 2014.

  1. Demigan

    Remember the thing I mentioned of testing the ES weapons against eachother as well? The MCG with Balistic refire toggle won from the Jackhammer the moment you didn't get that OHK in close ranges. At longer ranges the MCG annihilated the Jackhammer.
    The MCG gets problems at range against the Lasher, whether you believe it or not. You might say 'slow bullets easy to dodge' but you do realise you fire a stream that you have to walk through to dodge? You also realise these bullets go a lot faster than they seem?

    Then you say 'plus, hitting those pellets isn't all tho hard'. yeah, 'hitting those MCG bullets isn't that hard either'. 'Hitting with the Lasher isn't that hard either'. It doesn't really say anything as you ignore everything about range, spread, reload, magazine size, damage, DPS etc. Just imagine having to fire every bullet with hipfire for the rest of the game. It's still 'not too hard' to hit either with a lot of weapons like Carbines, even LMG's have a great chance of hitting, but you are going to need to be standing pretty close. Same with the Jackhammer. Sure you can hit with the pellets, sure almost every shot will hit with at least one pellet, but that doesn't mean it's a powerful weapon to kill someone with. Even the weakest pistol in the game has some non-sensical argument going for it. Probably on the same lines of 'it's not too hard to hit' or 'you can kill someone in just a few shots' (with headshots).
  2. a-koo-chee-moya

    You can avoid Non-CQC engagements with the JH, but you can't avoid the MCG's spin up time and the Lasher's 100ms bullet velocity.
  3. Zotamedu

    To me, the overall game seems rather balanced right now. NC are highly annoying to fight inside because shotguns and VS have their highly annoying magriders that I loath with a fiery passion. I am also convinced that people rather hate some stuff the TR have. Not sure what it currently is since I only play TR but there is bound to be something. I'm guessing it's still the lock down prowler infantry farming machine.
    • Up x 3
  4. a-koo-chee-moya

    I agree, I never really rage against any specific weapon, just getting unlucky and zergs, which will be pretty hard to fix.
  5. Runegrace

    Which is typically because a faction doesn't want their own stuff to be nerfed, even if it's OP. It sounds like you're agreeing with the implication that VS says everything is fine because they don't want any OP items nerfed, though I feel like you meant it as a rebuttal.

    He made the VS sound like they are the only ones that make "X FACTION is OP or PPA IS FINE!" when obviously that isn't true so i was correcting him.
  7. Demigan

    You can avoid Non-CQC engagements with the JackHammer, thus limiting your movement to about 2 corridors in every base. There's lots of bases where you can't even leave the spawnbunker without going into longer range engagements. In just about every building you can even get into longer range combat even when sticking to the corners of doors etc. So your 'option' would mean that you are almost always on the bad end of the Latency system, giving your enemy time to shoot you before you shoot them, not even including standard human reaction times.

    The spin-up time is pretty non-existant with the Refire Toggle, the Lashers 100 m/s bullets are compensated by lots of bullets that are large (makin near-misses hits), and a small AOE explosion. Using this thing at corners is actually incredible. When people hang around doorframes and corners you shoot at the ground nearby from range. The moment you do most people come running right into your bullets, should they run back right away they MIGHT survive, but they are probably pretty dead whether they run or try to kill you. Now think of someone with a Jackhammer hiding near a corner... Lasher shoots, you have to either retreat farther and hope he will come close, or run around and hope you can close the distance for a OHK before you are dead.

    You could say the same thing for infiltrators by the way. 'you can avoid short-range battles'. Sure you can! But that's no guarantee you'll win the battle. At least you have a lot more moving space than with a Jackhammer.
  8. Vertabrae

    No offense mate, but your character was created April 16th 2014. So you're not really all that experienced in PS2 nerfage. People like Lt_Latency, or myself, who've been around since late 2012, know a fair bit more about things in PS2 being OP, UP, nerfed and spammed. Lots of things in this game have been extremely OP. Take Zeph Libs back in the day. A single round could hit the top of the building, and the splash was large enough to kill a ton of people inside. Just aim at the building, you'll get plenty of kills. That's just one example. There's plenty more.

    I agree sometimes the whining on Forumside goes to far. But please don't make the mistake of thinking SOE made a perfectly balanced game. They've made a LOT of errors along the way, and it's been the players who pointed them out.
    • Up x 1
  9. Alarox

    Looking at all "X is OP" threads in the same way is just plain stupid. If I calmly explain why X is broken for various reasons and make a compelling argument, I'm not even in the same realm as someone who has no perspective on the thing they're yelling about and is just making the thread based on emotion.
    • Up x 2
  10. a-koo-chee-moya

    Exactly. This game has been around a couple years, and the big balance kinks should be worked out by now. The ZOE and Striker nerfs, while necessary, were in the early stages, when balance was not yet figured out. They don't really compare to today.
  11. a-koo-chee-moya

  12. a-koo-chee-moya

    That wouldn't be your title though, would it? Your title would be more along the lines of "These Mechanics/Weapons give (insert faction here) an unfair advantage over the others."
  13. PastalavistaBB

    Gr8 b8 m8
    • Up x 2
  14. Taemien

    This is a symptom of the real problem. What causes the ego that players have these days?

    Let's look into the history of online competitive games for a moment. First we'll look at early shooters like Quake and Unreal Tournament, and even Counter Strike. Most people in the beginning logged in, fragged some peeps and logged off. It was a simple past time, but enjoyable. There were egos to be sure, but not in the way we see today. No one complained about game balance.

    Those first generation shooters normally didn't rely on teamwork. Some of them had teamplay, but it was in its first iteration. Combined Arms was something that didn't come till later. So next we'll go to MMOs. Specifically UO and EQ. In their early days of PVP, you didn't have complaints about balance until much later after release. Sometime around the 2000's, a full year or two after release. Like shooters, you logged in, ganked some peeps and logged off. It was acceptable, it was alright, everyone did it.

    Now I'm going to go with my personal experience. I started with online games with Diablo and not to far off, MechWarrior 3 and 4, and then eventually Everquest. MW3 was an interesting game to say the least, you had a walking 'tank' and had to manage multiple weapons and had to manage heat levels. To make this point a bit shorter.. this was a balance nightmare. Dozens of weapons with thousands of different combinations. But they didn't try to balance it for online play. What we got was what we were going to get.

    I saw a growing problem around the 2000 era. I saw it in MW3, MW4 (MechWarrior 3&4), and even EQ to a lesser extent. Players started blaming their opponents and the game for their losses. Usually peer pressure kept them in check in those days as most players were still of the older generation. But even as early as MW3, I saw ridiculous 'honor' rules popping up like "No Legging your Opponents" (mechs were humanoid, and could survive arm or torso destruction, but a leg lost meant you lost since you couldn't move). Much like the ESF honor code of using no lockons.

    It wasn't until 2005 that this crowd really started rallying behind each other. Many of the younger people playing online games got an income to work with and started getting into online games. This is part of why WoW is seen as a 'casual' game. The company started catering to a growing demographic. One that had the Ego like the OP described.

    But where does this Ego come from? We all have egos. We all think we're the best. But not all of us blame others or things for our failures. The issue at hand comes with personal responsibility. Most players these days just don't take responsibility for their actions. As I've said in other threads, its due to the social-political culture of our modern day. To cut this part short (and to avoid derailing the thread), the newer generation want what they think is theirs and don't really care about how it affects others.

    This is where that particular ego comes from. They think they are the best simply because they think they are smart enough to overcome everything. Not worrying about the necessities of adaptation to things that might be outside their comfort zones. Or to put it simply, when something is changed in a patch, or different from another game they played first, or just how they believe something should work in their mind (with them being at the apex of course).

    Now players today use excuses. For example we have the continent lock system. Immediately they complain that they can't play on the continent they wish. Quoting some phantom rules about online play that they have the -Right- to play wherever they wish. But they forget that this is PVP. In PVP other players can and will dictate what you can do through their actions. They forget that instead of resolving it with SOE, they need to resolve such problems in combat. Meaning they need to take personal responsibility and take a continent to unlock the one they want. This is only one example. But you could attribute personal responsibility to the majority of issues players have with this game.

    Now for the real question. How do we fix this? The short answer is, you can't.

    The long answer requires a ton of work. You can't change what's happening in online games unless you fix the source. That means going outside the game and making changes to the social-political culture. So what kind of changes? Well unfortunately that discussion isn't appropriate for these forums. But I will say this. It has Nothing to do with political parties or even ideologies. Its quite simply taking responsibilities for your own lot in life and in game and encouraging others to do the same.
    • Up x 2
  15. AdmiralArcher

    they say everything is balanced and then whine about ZOE and how they dont have any good pistols and how they are always neglected

    a few words

    DAT ***
  16. NinjaTurtle

    Yes those were OP.

    However even if the game were perfectly balanced players would still have grass is greener syndrome.

    They would rather blame something other than their inability to win. To these people the excuse is always with the game and not themselves
  17. LibertyRevolution

    VS don't have any good pistols, that is why they complain about pistols..
    As a TR you just can't understand, as you get a pocket SMG as default pistol..

    PPA is overused because they nerfed Sarons AI into the ground, requiring half a mag of direct hits to kill a non flak armor infantry.
    Saron is now useless at AI.. So the only way a magrider can defend itself against infantry is to run with PPA.
    Prowlers can always kill infantry with their easy mode dual shot main gun, so they can run any secondary they want.
    Vanguards can easily kill infantry and armor with their enforcer AV secondary...
    Magriders you actually have to choose, AI or AV loadout, while the other factions tanks can just be jack of all trades...

    The Orion is the best close/medium range LMG in the game.
    It seems only fair to me seeing the VS get the worst guns in every other category..

    Typical TR.. complain that VS have a better LMG, meanwhile the TR have the best AR and carbines in the game..

    DAT ***:
    No denying that one..
  18. Demigan

    10m is just a bit longer than a Sunderer. You can place a waypoint at one end of the Sunderer and stand on the next to see it's length. That's 10m, which is actually pretty short when you place it inside a building. Just about any building has multiple corridors that are longer than a Sunderer. There are only a few outbuildings who don't.

    SOE isn't going to change refire toggle, and it won't make the MCG that much weaker, especially with an extended mag and some knowledge beforehand it's an incredible weapon.

    The Lasher might not offer as much protection as an engi-turret, but it's a deployed, stationary machine gun for crying out loud! You also prove my point: If a Jackhammer tries to get close you just take your distance from him. This means the Jackhammer would be a bad weapon to be hiding behind corners with Lashers around, wouldn't it?

    You finally get a point right: compare the weapons to others! But they still don't hold up as you show them to be. The Lasher does have a great DPS, and while not perfect for 1vs1 it's perfect for groups.
  19. AdmiralArcher

    dont assume that just because i have a TR sig i dont play VS....i have a BR 71 VS character and i have been playing it since launch, i just choose to use this account instead of that one, i know how Supposedly painful VS pistols are....the cerberus is a decent pistol, not everything has to be a repeater or a commie....the commie is the better choice over all other pistols anyways, the repeater might be a little better, but the commie is more accurate and more powerful and more predictable.

    the VS dont have the worst guns in each catagory, the Hv45 is pretty good and the SVA88 and the polaris are good guns too. the artimis is the best auto scout rifle, and the nyx is good too...the VS MAX weapons are better than the TR MAX weapons due to accuracy

    and the TR dont have the best carbine, the NC do...the lynx is crap because SMGs do the same job better...only the jaguar is truly godly
    • Up x 1
  20. Devrailis

    I hate that the TR ladies sound so fine. They sound like they can go on a murder spree while balancing a China set on their heads.