The Problem with Ravens

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by a-koo-chee-moya, Sep 29, 2014.

  1. AlCohonez

    Yes, to a very poor extent. Same way as shotguns with slugs can be compared to an assault riffle.

    Sure, shotguns are good at CQC, TR and VS are much better at medium range. That's the 'balance' the game has and that's gonna stay. This is not he point here so stop the "Oh yeah!? Give TR/VS a shotgun then!" arguments. However, the outcome of that 'balance' is that the only viable medium range weapon for NC is the Raven. It's not better, it's just used more frequently due to lack of options. You can't nerf a perfectly fine (but under-performing in KD compared to TR) weapon just because it's the last resort weapon for most of NC max when it comes to medium range.
  2. D.C.V.

    Ravens are great. I bought a pair of them yesterday and they really help counter those unbelievably annoying magriders. I don't think they're OP though. It's just that the other factions have bad AV capabilities. The fractures need a serious buff IMO.
  3. D.C.V.

    But it's supposed to sound like a raven...i guess
  4. Stormsinger

    Forumside is going on another crusade...? As a VS, I hate facing ravens, but it means that I have to actually be careful of where I park / drive. This does not mean I want them nerfed.

    Eh

    [IMG]
  5. Flag

    That comparison to ARs would be good if the VS and TR guns were on that level of accuracy at medium range.
    They're not.
  6. zombielores

    I guess the comparison would be hip fire not ADS, TR/VS max have similar hip fire to CQC or General use small arms, their CoF ranges from 1.15 (blueshift standing) to 2.65 (Cosmo/Grinder moving) compared to the Bandit's 1.25 standing CoF or the moving CoF of the Cycler (2.5) but the VS/TR bloom at standard ADS tiers while NC CoF at 1.

    Edit, added Cycler moving CoF in brackets.
  7. Flag

    ARs aren't exactly known for hip fire accuracy.
  8. z1967

    When did we decide that we were going to give one faction an advantage in a very broad department and who got the short end of the stick for specialty in AA?
    • Up x 1
  9. zombielores

    That's the worst of the worst, blue shift actually has a 1.15 CoF standing and 1.65 moving CoF, and Mercy has a 1.25 and 1.75 CoF (stand/move) which is basically firing a Cyclone hip fire for blue shift or VX6-7 hip fire for Mercy.

    edit, added mercy comparison
  10. a-koo-chee-moya

    Fine then. Stop calling PPA OP then. OK? That's exactly what I suggested in the OP. Jokingly, I admit, but I put it out there all the same.
  11. a-koo-chee-moya

    1. Its called Slugs. No MAX has effective medium range or it any good in an open field fight as they'll simply be outranged by infantry and vehicles. except for AA and AV. MAX is the indoor "vehicle", which is why shotguns aren't useless.
    2. KPH is the AVERAGE. This means that it is not effected by uniques due to the fact that it the KPH for all users added together and then divided by the number of users. Thus, no bias due to number of users.
    3. Take one look at the DA stats and you'll see the horrendous margin of error in those stats. That's the big reason I don't trust DA. Plenty of room for Ravens to be on top.
  12. TheMish


    The PPA hasn't caused anywhere near as many problems for the TR and NC as the Ravens have for the VS and TR.
  13. Keiichi58

    For the following reasons: Even with guidance, your sites get 'kicked' up, therefore, with obstructions, while you are aiming to hit the target, your 5 shots per arm will be reduced to fewer. With fractures, with the arced shots, yes, it is not guided, but you have 10 rounds per arm, increasing the number of chances to hit. At the same time, the fractures go slightly faster and do not self-detonate past 350m, which gives a TR and VS a moderate chance of doing damage to vehicles moving in.

    Incorrect. They have to be accurate to hit smaller targets. Also, the speed of the round and even the turn is not as 'fast' even with guidance. Otherwise, lateral moving targets or targets not moving in a predictable line cannot be hit as 'nicely' as you like to make it out to be. Take all three faction based AV weapons and use them in combat against a Harasser or any air vehicle. The Vortex will be slightly better at it, same with the the Fracture to a degree. However, to successfully hit a harasser or any air vehicle with the Ravens, you have to lead significantly and score a direct hit. At close range, trying to deal with infantry is just as bad as it is with Vortexes, the Fractures are only slightly better because you have, again, more chances to squeeze off shots. Guidance at short range means nothing and still need to be accurate. And as mention before, the sites get kiltered off center when fired, so unless you adjust for this, you will hit 'low' for the target.

    Yes... But if you are also getting one shot by a MAX at 40m... You aren't doing better. I have gone against others using a Raven MAX and they own me because I couldn't hit them nearly as nicely with the guidance. I am not claiming to be a pro player either, but if I am not a pro player and I don't own people in 'one shot' with the ravens (Which, btw, is not possible even with a direct crit hit, and hitting a head of a moving infantry with ravens is not exactly 'easy' either). If you truly want to argue this as possible 100% of the time, you really need to rethink this argument and actually use them in actual combat.

    The same is true with fractures and Vortexes. You also assume in every fight, NC wins spamming this weapon... From all experience, this is not true, and I play TR and VS as well. I USE the weapons I speak of and point out also why the Lancer/Vortex griping is stupid because players who gripe about the Lancer/Vortex hitting TR/NC vehicles is so OP when in fact the weapon doesn't really hit that hard up close and why the VS don't always use it. Another reason why some of these arguments with numbers ignore certain preferences and why people using numbers in their arguments won't get it through because metrics wise, there is more involved into it than just "Look at the kills this weapon has over this one!"

    Yes, the Ravens were designed to be 'better' at hitting targets at longer range, just as the Vortex and fractures were too. Have you TRIED hitting a long range, moving target with the Pounder or with the Comet? Especially LATERAL movement targets? The Comet and Pounder, like the Falcon, were good at hitting targets at medium to short range. Long range for mostly stationary or stupid vehicle users who don't know how to move out. But again, USE the ravens under combat situation. You will find that more experienced, smarter Tankers and harasser drivers will make it hard for you to finish them off. If you really think you can hit a harasser 100% of the time with the ravens, go ahead and youtube it. But I can guarantee, in order for you to accomplish this, you are either dealing with:

    1) Super ideal conditions, which also applies for VS Lancer/Vortex users and AV turrets
    2) Really Stupid drivers... Trust me, in this game, there a a crap ton of them.
    3) Tactically stupid players. Again, there are a lot of them, I have criticized many of them when playing with or against them.

    Yes... If you want to use a full charged shot. However, a Vortex can be fired, like the lancer, to hit a target for a typical shot, which is where the 'versatility' of the Lancer and Vortex is good for situations where you want to do damage to close range targets but wanting to snap shot it. It isn't much damage compared to a full charge shot, however, lacking the use of the comet or using a heavy's S7, Nemesis, Hades, or Decimator... It is better against vehicles than trying to pot shot it with the small arms fire, which, btw, I have also seen many stupid players try to shoot at Galaxies, Libs, Lightings and MBTs with guns that do NOTHING against it.

    [/quote]
    Ok... You go on talking about weapon systems you only seen one end of... Never used before and expect me to believe a half-***** argument where you barely have a clue on, not even half a clue on. When I play this game... I play all the sides to get the 'whole' picture. You should actually try it sometime instead of your little tirade you think I am going on about.
  14. a-koo-chee-moya

    .... Every single base defense is just screee. To be fair, every base attack by VS is thunk thunk thunk too.
  15. a-koo-chee-moya

    Ok... You go on talking about weapon systems you only seen one end of... Never used before and expect me to believe a half-***** argument where you barely have a clue on, not even half a clue on. When I play this game... I play all the sides to get the 'whole' picture. You should actually try it sometime instead of your little tirade you think I am going on about.[/quote]
    No, I'm talking about a weapons system that is 20% better than the next best other faction option and is 100% better at AI than the next best faction option.
  16. Yeahy

    No, I'm talking about a weapons system that is 20% better than the next best other faction option and is 100% better at AI than the next best faction option.[/quote]
    Messed up your quote there son.
  17. GrandpaFlipfox

    Here's the subtlety to that and why NC are often as annoyed by their Scattermaxes as VS/TR are when they get instagibbed.

    VS/TR AI weapons all have large magazines and faster reloads. So firing some rounds outside of obvious lethal range isn't much of a risk. Every VS/TR Max that has gotten a line of sight on me has taken the shot. Also never underestimate how accurate Mercies and Blueshifts can be when you crouch fire.

    For a Scattermax to do that even with Mattocks is a much bigger risk to the point where NC often just won't fire at all. Scattermaxes can end up dumping most or all of their extended magazines for the same damage as VS/TR which leaves them much more vulnerable to enemies suddenly getting in their face. Don't even get me started on how hopeless NC maxes are without Ext magazines.

    Using slugs cranks up the RNG and increases the already long reload times. Not to mention completely ruining their often complained about advantage over enemy Maxes and that HA's will now have plenty of time to get a rocket off against them in CQC. Hacksaws are often the best dual slug choice because they have no illusions of precision. You just throw all of your slugs out there as fast as possible then run away, you'll usually take someone down. Slugs are more a case of you can do it but you shouldn't do it.

    Tldr - VS/TR at range = Little risk thanks to many bullet, reasonable accuracy, and fast reload. NC at range = Daily tribute to RNGesus and taking much preventable damage while reloading.
  18. Rovertoo


    As an NC player, I think the best nerf for Ravens would be an increase in reload speed. Currently it's pretty spammy with such a fast reload.
  19. DatVanuMan

    Would a RoF nerf be okay with you, too? Because a Raven JUST eliminated my friend's Magrider in so little time. He quit, so I'm pretty angry:(
  20. Rovertoo


    RoF nerf would be fine, the more NC the better! Sorry about your friend though. Just convince him to get back on, cert out a Harasser, and go run over pedestrians regardless of colors! That's what me and my buddy do whenever we're not feeling the fight.