The Problem with Ravens

its 4 hits... and no, i can't hit infantry behind cover

If you're proposing an AI nerf to ravens without it attecting AV (besides a blanket AV range nerf to fix rendering issues) then I have no problem with that.

I just don't think it's that big of an issue

I'm just pointing out that what the developer said about the MAX AV weapons performance is not in line with what is happening in the game. They said that ideally all AV MAX weapons should perform against infantry at the same level Vortexes do. This is far from being a game reality.

Agreed... but again, falcons and pounders are far more effective at AI than ravens. Why the focus on ravens and why is this raven "AI focus" nerf group coming mainly from tankers?

Looking at the stats, Falcon and Raven performance is almost identical.

I guess Ravens taking the spotlight is due to the noise they make.

Better at long range? How about no.
Tanks/ground vehicles have it hard enough at long range, no need to make it even worse.

There's one complaiont with your chart that I have. The M3 Pounder is the TR first generation anti-armor weapon, for close range AV combat. The VS Vortex and the NC Raven are second generation anti-armor weapons, for long range AV combat. If you're going to compare something, you'd need to compare the TR Fracture with the other two; or, sub-out the Raven for the Falcon and the Vortex for the Comet.

I put these particular weapons there because:

• The Vortex is supposed to be the standard of AI efficiency for the MAX AV weapons
• The Raven is the topic of this thread
• The Pounders right now perform better than both the Comets and Vortexes combined. Even if the Fracture performance is zero, the TR are still ahead of the VS in MAX AV weapons performance.

Ta da! Mistery solved!

The KPH is higher because NC MAX HAS NO ALTERNATIVES, we are stuck with using ravens if we like it or not. For anything outside of spitting range NC max brings Ravens, while TR and VS have alternatives. Do you expect us to run with shotguns in an open field? Slugs are a joke!

If you want to nerf anything, nerf the TR pounder!
http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/items/weapons

Raven KD (felft) average 0.99, BR100 1.274
Raven KD (right) average 1.114, BR100 1.509

Pounder HEG (felft) average 1.798, BR100 3.504
Pounder HEG (right) average 1.488, BR100 3.205

Do you see that? 2-3 times higher KD! And you want to nerf the weapon which is already worse?

To tell you the truth, I don't know if the VS use Vortexes against Infantry that much at all, which might be one of the reason the numbers look like that. If the intention was that they should be the standard then SOE will be having issues in the future since the only reason they're bad against Infantry is the variable charge system doesn't favor low charges and rapid firing them produces intentional levels of inaccuracy even at close range. They perform like they do in a way that is completely unlike the other MAX AV weapon.

Unless SOE actually adopts an inverse damage model - something I had been harping on for quite some time - the only way SOE will be able to bring any other MAX AV weapons in like with the Vortex is by messing them up in ways that even impact their actual function. This has precedence, however, as far as player opinions are concerned. They've had nonsensical aiming/accuracy penalties and that's why few TR used Pounders until they were revamped. They've had slow refire rates and muzzle velocities and that pushed weapons from being effective at their expected ranges. They've lowered damage output to the point where the resistance table has to amplify the damage half a dozen times, which is the reason why Fractures were eschewed for Pounders against Infantry in the first place.

You know what VS AV kills my TR character? Comets. You know what NC AV kills my TR character? Falcons. I get shot at by Ravens, and they are a nuisance, but I dread Falcons more.

No, it changes a lot of things.

If there are 20 NC who get 100 Kills in an hour than we have a KPH of 5 (total kills/users=kph).

If there are 200 NC who get 1000 kills in an hour than we still have a KPH of 5 (1000/200=5)

If it were not an average, and influenced by total pop, then the stat we would using would be kills. Kph works independent of pop, but we should still take into account the amount of uniques we have.

the only problem I have with Ravens is the constant "wheeeuuuwheeeeuuuuwheeeuuu". that needs a nerf, nothing else

Add NC Midranged AI Option. Nerf Raven AI Damage. Problem solved.
/thread

I said it before and say it again, ALL MAX AV WEAPONS should be LOCK-ON ONLY.

Well, that removes a lot of the skill out of the game?

Don't want to see so many Ravens - give NC an mid-range alternative against infantry (NO, slugs don't count). There's absolutely nothing wrong with ravens, he reason they are preferentially used is because NC has no other choice. TR max weapons are the one's that need a nerf!

One of the most ****** idea ever heard. Please don't post again.

Why are we trying so hard to make all these weapons so similar to eachother? What's wrong with challenge and variation?

Because having some of them be superior to the others may sound nice in theory, but in practice it turns out people are only content if it's their toy that's better than the others. But when it's -someone else' who get to play with the strong toys, people cry foul.

Basically because people are people.

Oh yeah... You're the... tanker.
Heh. Sorry

And the Pilot.
And the infantry player.

Even the occasional squad lead.