The newest Faction specific vehicle weapons were absolutely butchered...

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by karlooo, Sep 9, 2022.

  1. karlooo

    This is something I do not understand.... I'll start off like this.

    I used the NC camera guided missile launcher called the NC-15 Phoenix. And this is one of the coolest, well designed (for the user), and most unique weapon in this game. So much effort and love was put into the creation of this launcher, compared to every other weapon.
    It is nearly identical to the air to surface missile called the LMUR, which is admirable that it was this well designed in PS2. It took me some time to find the name and some actual footage on Youtube.

    ...TR has the T2 Striker which rapidly shoots some advanced missiles.
    The Faction specific items that we received were copies of the M20 cannon with very unimaginative changes. Like WTF is this, the devs cannot come up with anything else, me shoot slow, me shoot fast....That's the best their brains can handle?
    This camera guided missile technology for precision strikes, which NC uniquely has it in their arsenal, why not build the faction specific gun on this?
    Lets say only the NC Sunderer and ANT can equip this weapon, the missile used is heavier (more damage) and faster (more range) so it won't be as agile as the Phoenix missile, it cannot perform any crazy maneuvers and the vehicles must be deployed for the weapon to be able to fire (so without it being deployed, weapon fire is locked)....And there it is, a very unique and tactical weapon which will have an impact on the battlefield.

    Here is another thing I don't understand.
    Just because one faction gets a new gun does not mean others must get identical weapons, like as if the factions are 3 toddlers, now TR has to get this like MLRS trash tier weapon just to make them happy. TR should get 0 additional items. What TR should really get is a restructured army...

    When you review the TR wiki page there is a brief realistic description of the TR faction based on the lore and mentions their slogan:
    "The Terran arsenal is composed of equipment once used on Earth, well-engineered and mass producible. Terran weapons are biased towards larger magazines, with smaller calibers and higher rates-of-fire a common consequence of this doctrine."
    "Loyalty Until Death, Strength In Unity"

    What TR has in their arsenal is the same dumpster truck Sunderer everyone has, and their unique tank which is the most hideous and unconventional design, Prowler. The only trait that matches is the larger magazines and rate of fire for small arms and that is it. And the Prowler is not even cheap, it is as expensive to produce as a heavy hover tank with alien weapons and technology. Based on what we have in game it's like the opposite, as if they are the insurgents, separatists and NC is the more advanced Empire.

    But okok let me get to the point. Imagine this...In the lore it is described how TR uses conventional ways of designing and manufacturing weapons, as it has been done for centuries because it is well engineered and ultimately allows them to massively produce the items.... So, VS can create as many Magrider tanks (which has been designed based on alien relics and technology) as TR who uses standard ways of manufacturing tanks for centuries. I can shít on TR all day but this basically says everything, no need to continue with comparisons.

    And another thing. If NC were to expand their military arsenal with the suggestion I had before about the high precision missiles for Sunderer and ANT support vehicles, then TR would be absolutely screwed on the NC front. The Prowlers would get decimated by the camera guided precision missiles, and the Lightening stands no chance against a Vanguard tank.

    To counter the Vanguard breakthrough tank and precision missile support, strategically what TR would need is numbers, some mass producible items.....Exactly what the lore says!
    First of all, what tank is cheap and mass producible. Lightening is. It is a perfect tank which can deal with any ground threat, this should be TR's MBT based on the lore.
    But they would still have trouble against the enemies high precision strikes and Vanguard breakthrough tanks in general. They would need something to support them to counter the high precision strikes.... Well obviously a Sunderer cannot be used to support a Lightening tank battalion...It's 3 times the height of a lightening, it's the first thing that will get destroyed.....What vehicle matches the Lightening's height? The Prowler. The Prowler does not belong to the TR army, and should redesigned and repurposed into a Sunderer APC/Light tank. Remove the two 120mm cannons, and place a 30mm auto cannon on the turret or an anti-tank, anti-infantry ATGM. It can deploy just like the Sunderer, just add in the terminal for infantry and that should be it.

    So now TR would have cheap mass producible tanks, the Sunderer APC/Light tank is a tank as well. Perfectly matches their lore and description, and even their slogan, strength in unity, non of their tanks can match a Vanguard themselves, only together they can destroy it.
    In game it would be very interesting to fight against. It would really feel like you are battling the empire.

    Why am I talking about this? I am mentioning all this because this is how the devs should think. The devs here act like as if they are kings of the 3 kingdoms: TR, VS NC. And they have to feed their little shíts so they are happy and can keep them under control.
    They seriously butchered the game. The Chernobyl campaign which nobody had interest in, Oshur water mechanics, the new maps on Esamir, and so on... it's just decimating the games performance with little to no purpose, so much time, space and resources wasted.
  2. karlooo

    I just can't understand what are the devs thinking.... Like most of the game's roles are incomplete, they should really get some drastic changes, outfit assets are a mess, outfits need to be looked at and the asset idea separately, Construction perfect potential zero interest, just fake interest, TR army should be restructured as I mentioned here, VS as well majority does not want to fight VS, experienced players infiltrating factions, 2v1s, linear and restricted gameplay due to links and so on...
    Instead the devs are working on Oshur, water mechanics like as if it is strategically valuable to have control under water, zero interest in maintaining stable performance from the designers. A free to play game should not require you to buy a $1500 PC. Everything they add diminishes performance and most of it has no purpose and value. I don't understand anything.
  3. karlooo

    Oh and I did not mention anything about the new tank turrets and cannons here.

    Basically the same thing as the M20 styled weapons....Me shoot slow, me shoot fast. It's the same mindset.
    The NC weapon has a bit more to it but I am not exactly sure what it's supposed to accomplish. A mobile, highly armored, turreted assault gun....This would make sense if we had an urban map but we don't and it would be too expensive anyways as an assault gun. And what about Construction? Why are devs putting effort in designing a useless assault gun variant of the Vanguard while construction is sitting here with no purpose?

    Btw the camera guided missile matches the NC hit hard trait because it almost guarantees to hit the target. When you don't hit the target you deal no damage.
  4. Your Secret Admirer

    Guided missiles effectively waste a good player, or Grant a terrible player the ability to contribute, but without ever improving their potential.

    Between this and their preoccupation with shotguns, I think this may be a storytelling element about the tragedy of the new conglomerate, and their inability to manage resources
  5. T.A.94

    I'ts called game design. Its goals keep changing, trying to please the majority of players.

    I going to stop you right there.
    You can shoot down the Phoenix rocket quite easily or outrun it if you feel like it.
    The Striker is a very competent AA Launcher. Back when it got released it was a 5 shot Lockon Launcher. It also was the first weapon featuring the proximity lock mechanic, a completly new mechanic introduced to the game back then. So the devs back then, did come up with something special.

    The answer is pretty easy: Nanites quite litterally.

    It's the way you think. The devs back then, to SOE times, envisioned the game the way they thought it would fit.
    Also, new content keeps players interested in the game.
    • Up x 2
  6. karlooo

    Yes, that is why quite literally the majority of players hate Oshur from what I see in game, distance themselves from the new base Containment Site on Esamir, Sanctuary because you need a $1500 PC to run it which the majority doesn't have, show no interest in the campaigns, missions, new vehicle Corsair, NSO gets some interest only because it received weapons with new purposes which main factions do not receive and ultimately is just a pathetic addition.
    At least SOE envisioned the game.

    You barely even had interest in reading what I wrote and just replied with what's on your mind. I am doing you a favor by replying back.

    But the Nanites part was interesting, I completely forgot the whole point of that resource.

    Apparently Nanites where nanoscopic robots used to design weapons, machines, equipment, components and organic matter something similar to 3d printing but the particles are in some sense also computers as they are responsible for deconstructing the item when it has ceased to function (mechanical) or gone too long without use by authorized personnel. So, it is not possible to steal the item and after deconstructing itself it is then reclaimed, absorbed somewhere.

    But the thing is Nanites where developed by human scientists. Nanites and Vanu alien technology is not the same thing. Nanites is like 3D printing, for example the components of the tank and hull are constructed using Nanites. But Vanu technology is something new, probably requires some sort of special mineral to be extracted and designed, so the Nanites can create the hull of the Magrider, but the materials for the engine that uses the alien technology to levitate the vehicle and the plasma energy weapons must be extracted manually....So it's not as simple as you say just Nanites.
    (About ammunition it's prob same for all. I doubt nanites are used in creating bullets and shells as it can destroy and damage it and how will it effectively deconstruct after. But still regular bullets are more standard than plasma weapons even if they are both manually created)

    Also another thing I noticed about VS. VS is the type of faction people distance themselves from because based on what you just see, it looks like a group of degenerates, I guess most know what I mean by that in game. But when you read the lore I put up there, you find out that the organization is composed of the brightest minds, interesting people, looking to free themselves from the TR rules and restrictions so they can continue with their development and dreams of creating the super humans as it is now in their reach. The Vanu technology was the key that allowed them to separate from the Empire in battle. I don't know why this is hidden from us. Without this backstory the VS looks like a faction full of filthy deviants.

    How is it a problem if an "unskilled" player can contribute? It is a free to play game, it should be for everyone.
    I played a game once where I did not do well in the frontlines, I just constantly died and later found this different type of group that operated a mortar artillery asset. It was extremely powerful but had small amount of ammo and they needed somebody to supply and support the operators and that's exactly what I did, I drove my truck to our FOB and back, dropped ammunition, handed the ammunition to them and I loved it, finally had some enjoyment... I was finally helping out the team. They could bombard targets more frequently and the artillery alone sometimes assured the entire team victory. I later learned how to use those assets because it was a bit complex, you had to first put info into a calculator, some scout or other group in the frontlines gave you this info and based on the calculated value you set the angle of the weapon and fired. I loved it, tones of damage, basically we played as a team.

    An open world, war game with a massive battlefield, factions and a large degree of freedom, is a perfect opportunity to add in any role for everyone. But realistically the game right now is very biased towards a certain audience and the rest is like pushed off the to the side, into the corner. Like it is there, but useless because of how the game is designed and some neglected.

    What wastes a good player is playing by themselves. Playing together or finding someone to work with should be supported indirectly. And there are plenty of things that can be done to achieve this but it also may be too late.
    I wanted to mention some ideas but it would be too long with this. But there are ways for sure.
  7. Scarnight

    It´s pretty simple really: Gameplay always has to supersede lore or lore has to fit gameplay to be relevant. The 3 Factions are already incredible hard to balance so now you want to introduce even more asymmetrical options that would make balancing even harder.
    Look at other MMOs ( i played a fair bit of WoW in its heyday so ill use that as an example) there you will see bosses that in lore are unbeaten ender of whole universes that now can be killed by 10-25 randos without any communacation! whys that? because gameplay is more important then the lore, and thats in an mmoRPG where many people really care about the lore.

    TLDR: There needs to be balance in the game for it to be fun, gameplay before lore makes that easier
    • Up x 3
  8. karlooo

    In my opinion this is what makes the game hard to balance... Attempting to make everything precisely equal. You are never going to get anywhere by following this design and it causes complications. The people want something for their faction but based on this design all factions must receive a copy and because it's so precise some faction may turn out to be benefiting the most out of it, it isn't fair for the rest and you get no where.
    You can get 2v1'd in this game with no way of countering it, so what is the point of this precise symmetry anyways?

    What if the weapons just dealt damage. So no more precise numbers, just heavy damage? When everything just deals damage, you don't really need to focus on it anymore. Now you can focus on purpose instead of numbers, which would be much more fun and creative for the developers.
    And yes I know I oversimplified it. A lot would need to be changed, main ones being recoil of weapons and also modify weapon control during fire because single fire will be much more necessary and currently the game pulls the weapon down for you. Infantry classes. Vehicles would at least need third person fully removed, and big changes in weapon controls. Turrets should be controlled in a more mechanical way, instead of controlling it as if you are browsing the internet with your mouse, what should be done is that you would turn and control the turret with a virtual analog stick by using mouse. So, the more you move it to the sides the faster it turns and now the gunners also need to gain a sense of touch on top of the narrow first person view. Air to ground changes...

    And I'll just end it here, don't want to wrote an essay of what could be done. Basically if the weapons dealt large damage, then this whole template about precision of symmetry can be mostly forgot about.
  9. karlooo

    Oh and RPG. Role playing should be treated as one of the most important aspects of Planetside 2 but I don't see anything like that in the game right now. Most people don't even know the narrative of the factions, technological advancements and so on. Factions get very vague, uninteresting descriptions so the players pick team based on weapons or visuals or whoever is dominant and not based on the story, what they believe in, who they should be fighting for.
    Quite literally just by seeing Vanu Sovereignty in game I believed they were a cult of perverts and degenerates. Just now after a couple of years I figured out the true narrative because it ******* hidden, for some reason.
    The devs also add onto this problem with their nonsensical stories like NSO. NS was primarily an arms manufacturer for the whole Empire. VS and NC where part of the TR empire before they separated. Why is NS a faction now, and why would any of the factions be interested in getting infiltrated by robots from a sketchy group that can't pick a side.
    And the dull campaigns of like soldiers who uncover the mysteries off whatever, nobody's interested in it. The soldiers are supposed to be fighting, getting involved somehow, not picking up flowers or whatever the missions are. And also I noticed an awkward touch of political correctness on the character creation screen which doesn't add anything beneficial. Just makes me think of the devs as male prostitutes.

    That's not how you set up the role playing experience. We first need to get immersed into the story and I am pretty sure they could have just hired an animator to draw some cinematics. It could have been displayed to us in game as an introduction in combination with a tutorial and that would have done it. I don't even understand why time was wasted on campaigns which seems to completely divert from the real story and even the action.
  10. Your Secret Admirer

    I never said it was a problem, I simply pointed out that it's likely a storytelling element, but it comes at the cost of the real world players that engage in this type of behavior, these are exceptions that do not develop synergistic improvement, unlike almost every other aspect of the game.

    Gunning for a vehicle will slowly improve your infantry performance, piloting an ESF will slowly improve your infantry performance, even mining cortium and navigating the map to a silo will teach you how to be a better player.

    Shotguns and Phoenix missiles do not push you into the training pipeline, as a consequence you don't passively improve.

    Another place where this is somewhat the case would be the lack of vanu bullet drop for semi-automatic sniper rifles, this leaves people struggling to use even the parallax if it happens to be their first encounter with bullet drop.

    No bullet drop certainly doesn't preclude the development of other skills. But you don't get progression on concepts that are not asked of you.

    The Phoenix literally has no teachable benefit beyond its own use.

    Shotguns outside of pump shotguns, similarly don't offer any benefit outside of their own use.

    This results in players continually thinking that everybody else is hacking, or otherwise gaining a unfair advantage. So they quit the game in rage after any balance changes limit the scope of their specialized interest.

    If dbg nerfs shotguns in any way we would see thousands of players leave the game, they do not have the skills to migrate to another weapon.

    Any nerf for the Phoenix would result in some players unable to use rocket launchers at all.

    By contrast if they were to Nerf the decimator, the s1 would been easy swap for even long-term decimator users
  11. karlooo

    Oh yes that is true in some sense but I don't see how it correlates with my suggestion (NC Sunderer, ANT weapon, only unlocked when deployed)
    Operating a Sunderer should not be a profession. No matter who you are, soldier, engineer, everyone should know how to drive and operate a general purpose or logistic truck. So essentially it doesn't matter, it's not a profession.
    And Phoenix is a tactical weapon. In reality you would use more of your brain operating this weapon system than any other because you can't just drive in and hold the fire button, you need to deploy it in a good and effective position in battle (based on my suggestion).

    ANT is for the Construction role to build like an FOB, so again doesn't matter. This would be an ideal weapon for the ANT as you usually you need to follow your army and set up a FOB at a good position, but it's not possible to support allies in battle with the weapons you have available, you can just be annoying or scratch the paint off a tank. Phoenix styled weapon would be great help for NC ANT, they already have Vanguard as a frontline tank so supporting from the back would be good enough.
    It's also a perfect combination with a construction remake suggestion I posted before (It's about turrets, artillery, redesigning walls and Bunker)
    Perfect faction uniqness. (IMO the vehicle Phoenix missiles should only get shot down with weapons 12.5mm and above, so only vehicle weapons)

    TR ANT could get the Pillager to supporting pushing out enemy infantry, rather then anti vehicle precision strikes. This would for sure go well with the suggestion I had for TR, to compose their armed forces of inexpensive mass producible vehicles...Lightening MBT, remove Sunderer, remove Prowler and redesigned and repurpose Prowler into the new Sunderer APC/Light tank for TR, to buff the Lightenings.
    So, blitzkrieg strategies, ANT Pillager would be a good combo.

    I don't know what you are talking about.
    If the devs just decided to remove shotguns for all standard infantry classes (except the heavy weapons like Jackhammer), nobody would care, it would actually clean up the game.... Why do you think anyone would care?
    The engineer operates the tripod machine gun, the medic has the assault rifle, Light assault is just annoying but they usually engage at further distances, Heavy Assault is like a shock troop and by removing shotguns it would actually make the game more interesting and improve the faction traits even more cause NC uniquely has the hit hard heavy weapon, TR has the fast shooting close medium range strafing weapon (it would be underpowered in current state) and VS I don't know.
    NC MAX having shotguns is also a perfect combination, it is a armored, slow, breakthrough unit. Like you can't arm this unit with a sword and a dash. The NC MAX doesn't look like Yasuo to me :D .....But maybe it could be an armored, slow, support unit. Like it already has the shield and literally this unit can be anything.
    And I did have a suggestion before about increasing damage because I believed the precise symmetry causes more issues in this 1v1v1 game, wonder how that would look like.
  12. karlooo

    What are the devs doing? Why did they forcefully add their trash into the game. You see that just by looking at it, and now it is pathetically forced into the game as if it has potential.....Tank warfare is near impossible because of the new Magrider weapon.

    You can't compete against the Magrider and you can't run away from the Magrider... Why is everything biased towards VS? You can stick the symmetry up your ***. Develop the factions finally.

    And another thing, nowhere in TR lore it says they like adding a dozen barrels to their weapons... It's absolutely imbecilic to add this design onto the hull of a Prowler tank and in fact does not go one bit with the TR traits, the 2 barreled tank destroyer design was already on the edge, it was too much already.... What the **** are these devs doing?

    And why do they love decreasing performance? Original turrets, simple, unique and iconic designs.....These new turrets, a puke of random shapes and extrusions which does not even look nice.
  13. FIRES

    I couldn't follow half of what the poster said because everything was so vast. Games only work in lore from the design of story lines. It also shouldn't have updates based around RP. You can pretend to be a soldier but when a game releases unbalanced content that goes against fun then why does any of this matter? I refuse to fight VS atm. We need the devs to stop with the gimmicks its ruining the game...
  14. Botji

    Meanwhile Kingsnake Prowler drives past and splats a Magrider in ~3.5 seconds which is barely enough time to even charge up the Perihelion once.

    All 4 new faction tank guns have advantages to them, even the NC JGX.
    They also have some drawbacks that are more apparent on some of them than the others which is probably why the JGX is seeing a lot of people being disappointed with it since its quite obvious what its not good at and TR are simply too used to having super amazing MBT weapons so they are not impressed with the Kingsnake even though it is a really good weapon.
    • Up x 1
  15. VV4LL3

    Yeah, that new prowler -- wow. Literally no chance to survive on a flank.