The New Player experience per the Cryaotic Stream: "It's fun when you're not getting **** on."

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Fortress, Jul 27, 2014.

  1. WTSherman

    I strongly disagree with removing OHKs. Many weapons are completely and utterly useless if they are NOT a OHK. For example, if I only have one frag grenade and that one grenade can never under any circumstances get a kill, what's the point?

    Similarly, a bolt-action sniper or a tank cannon that cannot OHK is basically useless. Its rate of fire is far too low to secure a two-hit kill, especially for the NC.

    There are far better ways to improve the new player experience without wrecking game balance:

    1: Make all gameplay stats 100% transparent and readable in-game. This includes armor resistance values and weapon multipliers. For example, a new player should be able to click on a Lancer and see a list of vehicles it has a 2x multiplier against. Vehicle HP and armor values should be visible on each vehicle's page. MAX resistance values should be visible as well. There should be an in-game help file that explains how these values work, and how they stack. Modified gravity values and projectile acceleration should also be clearly displayed. A new player should never have to guess anything, they should be able to find everything they could possibly need to know by reading it in-game.

    2: Give new players enough starting certs to get a couple classes/vehicles to a decent level. They should be able to buy at least 2 1k cert weapons and get at least one suit slot above rank 3. About 3,000-5,000 starting certs should do it. This introduces them to the cert system and gets them thinking about loadouts from day 1, and allows them to immediately get a foot into whatever role they want (for example, with that many certs you can very quickly build a decent AV tank or get a medic with a decent weapon and high-ranking medgun).

    3: Make MBTs start with the first rank of their ES utility for free.

    4: Give aircraft the first rank of flares for free.

    5: Make Flak, Nanoweave, and ASC ranks shared across all classes so that they only have to be ranked up once.

    6: Start new players out with 1-3 weeks of free Membership. This helps them get over the initial grind, and introduces them to what Membership does.

    7: Continue to expand the tutorial system to include a wider range of scenarios and cover gameplay in-depth. There should be multiple tutorials that are accessible and re-playable at any time, each focusing on a different aspect of gameplay. Battle scenarios with AI-controlled enemies will go a long way to helping new players get a handle on the game.
    • Up x 6
  2. Degenatron


    I seriously should have stopped reading right there. You know, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if that's the best you can do at iterating it, then it's not really worth reading.

    And your "solution"? PS1 with no Maxes... what a joke. There's a reason why you don't have a job in game design and it starts with crap like that.

    Now I'm going to give your "points" more attention than they're worth:

    1. The default weapons are the best "General Use" weapons in the game. They LITERALLY give new players the most options. And here's the REAL joke, your "solution" is to MAKE THEM EVEN WEAKER. Don't complain about how unusable they are when the PS1 weapons were ALL based around "it takes 2 or more to kill 1".

    2. Weapons lock is just fine. If you're basing your judgment off of that video, that is just stupid. It's a giant cluster**** in the warpgate. I have a pretty good feeling that massive session of grab-*ss was due in no small part to the stream the guy was running. I find it disgusting that people protest so much against the lightest slap on the wrist for BAD BEHAVIOR. A product of the "everyone gets a trophy" generation if you ask me.

    3. It's already pratically gone, which is a crying shame. The flip side is just as bad: the "I just hit that guy with a TANK SHELL and it didn't kill him?! WTF?!" But, as usual, the carebears win out. Not to mention, the death screen totally tells you EXACTLY how you were killed - and where from. So that whole point smacks of ******** over getting wrecked.

    4. You complain about explosive spam - WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL HAPPEN WHEN YOU TAKE AWAY THE GRIEF SYSTEM???? The logic nodes in your brain don't connect. Maxes and vehicles are NOT indestructible. You need to stop soloing. Yesterday, after we pushed the TR out of a base, they did the standard "flight of the ********" with liberators and they were absolutely HUMILIATED by a battery of HAs with Hawks waiting for them. On one hand you want it to be more like PS1 which nerf everything to force teamwork but you can't manage to work with your team already.

    5. You complain about vehicles, but then you want to remove the only checks to massive vehicle spam there are. Like I said, you need to connect those logic nodes.

    You want to know what's wrong with this game? You got 10 thumbs up with this ridiculous post. THAT's what wrong with this game. The sooner the weak wash out, the better this game will be.

    Also, I watched that video you linked to, and you know what I saw? Guys having a LOT of fun. Saying things like "OH MY GOD THIS IS AMAZING", "This is so much fun!", and "This is great!". So, they seemed to like it even though they were just fumbling their way through it.
    • Up x 6
  3. Ranik

    Bring back the ******* PS1 Vehicle system. You start with 10 Vehicle certs at BR1. You slowly gain more as you reach BR100 for a maximum of 20.

    Each vehicle requires anywhere from Vehicle certs temporarily spent into them (with a 4 hour timer) to actually be able to pull them.The vehicles are loosely arranged into paths.

    Light Transport/Attack:
    Flash 2 certs - > Harrasser 4 Certs

    Armored assault:
    Lightning 5 Certs -> MBT -> 7 Certs

    Ground Support:
    Sunderer 6 Certs

    Air Cav:
    ESF: 6 Certs -> Liberator: 6 Certs

    Air Support:
    Galaxy 8 Certs

    Also Change MBT's to not be driver/gunner FFS. Higby you have ignored this problem for two years and you have never been able to fix it. Admit your mistake and fix it before the game dies.
  4. Phyr

    I can't even comprehend your second point. Unless you're color blind there should be zero problems identifying friend and foe after the first 5 minutes.
  5. Captain Kid

    agree with all op points except 4.
    Infantry fighting isn't very good. lot's of weird fishy stuff going on and it's way to much rock paper scissors.
    I just got owned by an smg at 70 meters. or cloakers killing you with the commissioner at 50 meters while you're moving.
    OR shooting half a clip in someone and they refuse to die. OR people not rendering at 10 meters.
    Shots not registering, lag, shotgun users, invisible snipers and smg users, flinch, screen shake, stupid cliffs, heavy shield, spam grenades, maxes. sorry it's pretty crap.

    And don't get me started at how the crosshair doesn't even work properly.

    And no, I would never ever recommend this game to someone.
  6. Fortress

    Thanks for the elitism, but you haven't the slightest clue about what you are talking about. This is a F2P game that needs as much blood in it as it can get, and your "hardcore or get stuffed" mentality is entirely antithetical to this game's success.

    And thanks for all the personal attacks, but check my stats - do you really think I have trouble playing this game? I can tell you replied out of anger, so I'll give you a second shot, provided you honestly ask yourself if farming new players is the best way to retain players in this game.
    • Up x 3
  7. Phyr

    That's not a "hardcore elitist" sentiment, it's being a realist. This game can't be for everyone, regardless of how much they try and/or want it to be.
  8. Fortress

    I think this would be an excellent start, as it would allow new players to escape the infantry fodder black hole they currently start in.

    And I think you're right - OHKO's would be ok if they were hyper transparent and if new players had immediate (and consistent) access to them. Sort of like how sniper rifles are, but with more information than "hey you got nuked by a inviso dude from this direction."
    • Up x 1
  9. Fortress

    What? "The sooner the weak wash out" is absolutely elitist. This game can't be for everyone, you're right - it needs to be for the majority of its players, and that means preventing them from getting ruthlessly farmed at every opportunity.

    The sooner we stop catering to hardcore "I suffered and so should you!" crowd, the better. This is a game that sells big battles, and if you don't have the players, you don't have the battles. Source: PS1 - a potentially great game plagued by a horrible new player experience (farming) that went on life support at the two year mark.
    • Up x 2
  10. DhavK

    I'd like to see a special server only for newbies which they could decide if join or not in the process, so then they can compete with themselves, and then when they reach level 10 o whatever, they could join into a more hard and chaotic official server. Problems with that will be, low population or imbalanced, vet players (with unlocked SC guns) making new characters just to go and farm them, but I think there could be some sort of restriction to all acces members or SC owners to not be able to join to the "training server". Appologies for any misspellings (not native english speaker)
    • Up x 1
  11. Wecomeinpeace

    How can you write something like that with a straight face?:p
    Imo PS2 totally caters to exactly that crowd with every single aspect (which is what everyone not into twitchy shooting is complaining abiout since early beta) and reduces thinking and planning to something of a sidegrade at best. If all these BR1s had certed out vehicles or aircraft and knew how to operate them but didn't know the map or how the territory capturing and other game mechanics work, they would have been steamrolling the place regardless.

    And somewhat related to the overall topic of the high frustration potential of PS2, instakill **** by infinitely stacked tank mines, c4 and crap that can and will also be tossed around like candy allways was incredibly stupid. Every explosive should be deployed like turrets or recond devices.
  12. Flapatax


    "Weak" is a pretty arbitrary designation. I mean, strictly applying your thinking here, by DA standards the game would be better if you left.
    • Up x 3
  13. Maljas23


    Except that he wasn't talking about l0lstats, but your ability to understand this game's mechanics without rushing to Forumside to make a whine thread...etc...

    I know you just wanted to use this to attack him, but I'm just saying.
  14. Fortress

    I understand the game perfectly. New players don't, and most will never get the chance because of how awful it is for them.

    How are you not getting this?
    • Up x 1
  15. Maljas23


    Where did I even say your name or even relate to you(the OP), in that above quote? I was being general, if that wasn't clear enough already.

    I didn't say anything about the NPE being fine. Don't put ******** in my mouth please, thanks.
  16. Degenatron

    I see your stats. And it's obvious YOU'VE made this game all about "farming players". Any one who says "check my stats" in the middle of an argument obviously has no other leg to stand on. Everyone knows those stats don't mean ****. I'll tell you this right now: with your focus on KDR stats, you are playing the wrong game. It's easy to rack up lots of kills against guys like me who are playing Conquest when you're playing Deathmatch. It's also easy to rack up a high KDR on any "DasAnfall Approved" weapon from behind a spawn shield.

    For someone who's so against vehicle spam, you must have been heartbroken racking up you TWENTY FIVE THOUSAND Lightning kills. Hypocrite.

    "This is a F2P game that needs as much blood in it as it can get, and your "hardcore or get stuffed" mentality is entirely antithetical to this game's success."


    You couldn't be more wrong. I've got two words for you: "Counter Strike". In a time when deathmatch and constant respawning reigned supreme, CS came in and said what? That's right: "hardcore or get stuffed". And it became the most popular FPS in the world. Why? Because it didn't compromise for popularity's sake.

    "If I'd asked people what they wanted, they'd have said 'Faster horses'." - Henry Ford

    The best thing the devs can do is stay true to what Planetside is, not turn it into the infantry only deathmatch you want it to be. That's already been done - it's called Quake.

    Finally, I dismantled every one of your "points". All you took out of it was that I didn't coddle you with soft words. I've been suffering fools lightly for two years now and I'm sick of it. If you don't like the game, if you think it is "garbage", then there's the door, your names on the knob.
    • Up x 3
  17. Fortress


    I'm capable of reading between the lines, but please, now that you're here - do you feel that this game is doing all it can to get and keep new players in the game?
  18. Maljas23


    Not at all. Without even going into everything that could possibly make this game easier on new players, one doesn't need to look any further than the air game.

    My concern is the approach that may be taken to try to ease the NPE. Dumbing down is something I want SOE to avoid like the Plague, and Ill gladly voice my opinion against it.

    And, I meant exactly as I said. No need to read in between the lines.
    • Up x 1
  19. Degenatron


    Then let me be more specific:

    Mentally weak. Feeble Minded. Lacking of cognitive ability.

    There are two kinds of players in this game:

    1. Those who play the game as it was intended.
    2. Those that play it as deathmatch.

    I've seen the DA website - it revolves around "deathmatch" mentality.

    I could do like you guys and play PS as deathmatch, but that feels dirty. Basically, it's saying "I can't excel based on the rules put forth, so I'm make my own set of rules and measure myself by those so I can feel good about myself."

    If the devs ever update the API with a more robust output of XP events, I'll complete my alternate site that actually recognizes players for playing the game as it's meant to be.
    • Up x 2
  20. Fortress

    It's difficult to follow your points because you're yelling at ghosts and assumptions. And yes, I have tons of vehicles kills - that's how I know that vehicle farming is a problem.

    But let's get the core of this. From your CS comparison, you want to make PS2 into this hardcore thing that it simply cannot be. Counterstrike is not a F2P game and it has years of careful balancing and design behind it, while PS2 is still figuring out that no one wants to play a spawn camping simulator.

    The biggest issue with this game is that it has fallen so far away from it's origin in cramming all of these modern BF style mechanics onto a frame that can't support them, and the result is a mess of overpowered farm weapons and indefensible terrain that makes your average infantry gameplay living hell.

    Like it or not, since 2003 the core of Planetside has been infantry combat. It's what new players want to do, and it's one of the best ways to experience this game's scale. I just want them to have that infantry experience without getting farmed. That's not a lot to ask.

    Or, we could go the "everyone gets free vehicles route," similar to how in PS1, you could pull your favorite vehicle every 5 minutes without limitation, but that I feel is a bit more of a rework than we can afford right now. So i'm putting my stake in with infantry.