The new MCG is out and it needs to be addressed.

Discussion in 'Planetside 2 Test Server: Discussion' started by Facta, Apr 5, 2014.

  1. Facta

    I, and many TR players (if not all), have been hoping for an MCG that isn't gimped by bad stats and execution. We wanted something that was fun, reflected TR faction traits, and was effective on the battlefield.

    What we got was a weapon with loads of bloom, a terribly slow period of spin-up that lasted longer than other weapon's entire TTK (meaning you would be dead before you even hit full spin), and overall lackluster performance.

    This hasn't stopped TR players from using it and growing attached to it because, after all, it's a chaingun that fires fast (800 rpm isn't that fast for what it is, but I'll cover that later) and has a large ammo pool. It's iconic for the Terran Republic, a symbol.

    Now, with the changes on test server, SOE has released an attachment that takes up the rail slot. It increase ROF. This is good, right? Not really, let me explain.

    First of all, an attachment is only a band-aid to the problems that plague the MCG. It needs a total rework and this wont help it. The changes to ADS accuracy are strange. Sure, you have fixed COF while ADSing, but your ADS accuracy is so low that at 10m to 15m ranges you start missing a lot of your shots. This would be fine, but it halves your movement speed and with HA overshield you might as well be standing still, and you don't even get remarkable TTK for it, even though you have to struggle through a spin-up time. I could do leagues better with a CARV, or ever CARV-S (which has access to extended mags).

    Also, I just want to point out that crouching ADS accuracy is less accurate than standing ADS accuracy on test server right now. Just a bug, I'm sure. It would also be nice to see the numbers on what the ROF becomes with that new attachment. I also wish that if this new attachment is the way that SOE wants to go, then please don't make it take up the rail slot. Extended mags is already pretty much critical for the MCG, so adding this wont add anything new for vet MCG users.

    Anyways, my point is that these changes, for one, aren't what the weapon needs to be useful, and two, highly disappointing. I propose that the MCG receives a total revamp.

    • Remove ADSing on the MCG. It doesn't make sense and RMB should spool the barrel of the weapon, like in most games with a chaingun in it.
    • Apply a fixed COF to it. Make it sit between what is currently the ADS and hipfire accuracy on test server.
    • Increase the ROF to something like 950 or even 1000 rpm. Decrease the damage to 112 or 100 damage per bullet.
    • Due to how much faster the bullets go, increase the default magazine size to 150 rounds with 450 in the reserve. Extended mags would increase the magazine size to 300 with 300 in the reserve.
    These are my thoughts on what to do with the MCG. On a related note, if ADS is removed from the weapon, then it should be possible to change the MCG to an underslung weapon with a bit of effort and thinking. Just a thought.

    On the topic of my proposed MCG's balance, I feel like it should have a longer TTK than shotguns or weapons that are decidedly for CQC, such as the GD-7F, Serpent, GD-22, and so on, but have slightly higher TTK than other weapons because the fixed COF and removal of ADS means that it will NEED to dominate at close quarters, or it will be terrible at all ranges.

    Well, that's all I got to say. I think I covered all the bases I needed to. Go test the new MCG for yourself on test server, see what you think, and then come back and tell me what you think of it and my opinions on the matters.

    Cheers, all.
    • Up x 18
  2. Klondor

    I wholeheartedly agree with your analysis of the MCG and am horribly dissapointed with the decision to make this an attachment. My biggest question is this: If the designers of the firearms in PS2 can take their time designing a new carbine, and even re-vamp the look of a long since existing carbine, why is it so hard to remodel a chaingun? There are hundreds if not THOUSANDS of reference images to pull from, they even have the old Beta MCG to work with and redesign. There is also this model that someone came up with: [IMG]
    Why would they not use this design or something very close to it? Look at it, just look and admire it's simplicity, and it just screams FUNCTIONALITY. I know this is only the test server and things are always highly subject to change, but after all the problems with previous weapon balances in the past, i already know this will just end up going on live and expected to somehow be better than the current MCG.
    I'm SO happy that we're getting our weapons changed, as well as getting our long-awaited firearm sound revamp, i am SO happy - but the juiciest part of it was supposed to be our iconic weapon update, and this was just 100% disappointing.

    I really hate to say it, SOE... but i'm starting to get into the mindset of:
    • Up x 14
  3. Facta

    I'm going to be playing on test server tomorrow to test the new MCG in an actual combat scenario.

    We all know how good guns can seem in VR (hell, even battle rifles seem extremely potent) but I'd like to see how it pans out in a real fight.

    Let's just hope I can find people on test server to test it on. Might have to get my outfit to come test it with me.
  4. Klondor

    That would be a great idea. I could probably get my outfit to try it out.
  5. Undeadfred

    This is pretty disappointing to hear. I'll have to log on tomorrow and check it out for myself.

    IDK why making the MCG relevant is so hard for SOE. No one wants this ramp up time, and it really has zero place in game with such a low ttk, especially when once you get to the full rof your CoF has expanded and made the weapon useless.

    I've learned to manage expectations with PS2, especially when it comes to TR. SoE has me Dreading content patches now bc it's another "Ugh what is TR going to get stuck with as everyone else gets shiny new toys." I've been moonlighting as VS more and more. If it wasn't for a few friends I'd play it exclusively.

    I'd like to know if they've even fooled around with the mechanics of the gun. Tried removing the ADS, and Spin up time, even in internal testing. Are they even committed to this idea of giving the TR a unique functional weapon in any capacity?

    Ya ya PTS is PTS subject to change, but I've seen too many bad ideas get through PTS with little to no change. ZOE maxs anyone?
    • Up x 2
  6. Doomzzg

    4 factioners are not allowed to discuss TR changes
    • Up x 2
  7. Facta

    I'd like to speak on something I said in my original post.

    "Apply a fixed COF to it. Make it sit between what is currently the ADS and hipfire accuracy on test server."

    I picked up my MCG again on live just to make sure my opinions on it hadn't changed, but using it got me thinking.

    The changes I proposed would change it into a weapon meant for sub 15m combat. If that's the case, then the hipfire can't be TOO accurate, so if the hipfire remained the same as it is on live(both with and without laser sight) but all the other changes I proposed went through, that would be the better way to go.

    Basically it should be a weapon with low TTK (but higher than shotguns) within close range and with sustained fire, but be pretty much garbage outside of 15-20m.
  8. Klondor

    Pretty much how i use it, i use it inside towers where i'm being spawn camped and just drop down into a crowded hallway and let my CoF expand enough to the size of the hallway and just destroy.
  9. Maljas23

    What if they were to remove the spin up from the MCG baseline? This would make it a 800 RPM weapon at all times.

    Adding the RoF attachment adds the spin up back, but makes it the current MCG on the test server(with the equipped attachment)(750ish starting RoF up to the currently assumed 1000 RPM).

    With this and the newly fixed CoF in ADS, I think it would be a great weapon.
    • Up x 1
  10. Vivicector

    Well, all 3 ES HA weapons are garbage, ok? Well, may be except Jackhammer (not sure). All 3 deserve a rework and plain buff.
    • Up x 1
  11. Facta

    The Jackhammer is not garbage. Jackhammer is an extremely potent weapon and excels at its specialty. It is the standard upon which the other two ES heavy guns need to be balanced upon.

    I've already explained what the MCG should be, but I believe the Lasher needs a rework too. It needs to actually lash enemies the projectiles pass and have a smaller magazine and faster reload to prevent splash/lash spam. I'd say 25 shots in the mag with a 3.2 second reload would be fine, and each round does 60 damage within 1m of everything it passes within. But that's not the current subject we're discussing.

    What you said is "Well, all 3 ES HA weapons are garbage, ok?" which isn't true, but the fact that you think weapons need to be balanced by making them all terrible isn't good. ES weapons should have their specialties and should excel in them.
    • Up x 1
  12. Klondor

    Someone told me on the test server, as a main NC and alt VS: "NC and VS have their faction traits right off the bat, you TR players shouldn't have to use an attachment for your faction trait, it's not right and its a bad move on the developer's part, i say that your MCG should naturally have 1000rpm, and if it's going to spin up, it should spin up fast, not with this pea-shooter then full auto nonsense."
    This guy [who i will not name] has a very valid point. The Jackhammer is a high damage output CQC weapon which caters toward the NC's factional trait of being close-quarters. The Lasher X2 also fits the Vanu's faction traits of not having much projectile drop and using experimental alien technology. What do we get? A Chaingun with an akward spinup, moderately high RoF and insane CoF bloom. Granted the CoF bloom is now gone on the PTS when using ADS, but sacrificing extended mag for a slightly faster RoF is completely ludicrous.
    • Up x 11
  13. Thisuren

    I actualy disagree with what most of you said. The current (live) MCG is in my opinion the most fun and challenging weapon available to infantry. It is not an LMG, it's an iconic weapon that needs a completely unique playstyle to be effective with it. (for reference, I have a lot of experience with it:!/5428037477595430209/weapons ).

    Teh changes that you are proposing, making it less accurate, hipfire only and all the other random stuff, will just make it like a **** shotgun that's worse that shotguns at CQC and completly and uterly useless at any ranges beyond that. With the current MCG, you're able to be quite effective even in open field battles, if the MCG is properly used. Besides that, it excels in pinning down door- and stairways, wiping out MAXes and clearing rooms with 4 squads in it. When you really get to use it, it is the most amazing infantry weapon for TR. What you are proposing will just make it more bland, onesided and overall less competitive.

    The current implementation on the test server is even worse. It has the same stats as the live version, spare the accuracy, which for some obscure reason got changed to 1.2 aimed accuracy, instead of the 0.1 it has on live. This is an extreme nerf to the MCG's capabilities and honestly I have no idea why they did this.

    A change that might satisfy people's need for more dakka is to change it's rate of fire to 1000 and it's damage to 114. This gives it the almost the exact same ttk when fully spun up and leaves it as an all around good gun. Maybe they could even give it a slightly faster spin up time, not that it really needs it though.

    From this thread I also get the impression that a lot of you people just shout that something is **** when you've only tried a gun one or two times in VR and didn't like the playstyle change it required. This is true for a lof of situations, like the Lasher. That thing is an amazing weapon that rips through squads, but no, according to some of you it's not that good a weapon... Like the Jackhammer, which is an iconic shotgun that's very competitive.

    I do agree at some point though, that attachment is not what the MCG needs/deserves. Neither is the new reticule btw. It now has the plain standard crosshairs instead of the dot and circle which are so nice on the MCG, I hope they revert that change.
  14. Vivicector

    Why do you think I want them to be terrible? As I have said, I want a plain buff to them. Well, to MCG and Lasher at least. I see Jackhammer used a lot, and to a good effect. I want other ES HA weapons to have their use to, instead of gimping the player who uses them. I am for the buff and rework of ES HA weapons!
    • Up x 1
  15. Klondor!/5428016813481823281/weapons
    I've got enough experience with the T7 as well to know right now that the weapon is in need of some change, the most obnoxious part of the weapon is the ridiculous spin-up style of the weapon, i much rather prefer the original type where it spun the barrels then fired at maximum RoF, this current spin up to me is just annoying.
    • Up x 2
  16. Vearo

    I like the PTS MCG ADS mechanic. It establishes the weapon's effective range, and doesn't punish the user for holding down the trigger. It isn't a weapon for range, which is just as well as any TR LMG can reach farther without burst fire than the MCG on live. If the effective range for the PTS MCG isn't far enough it is a simple matter to lower the ADS CoF.

    From my testing in VR, the PTS MCG takes about 40 rounds to kill a target at 60m and 30 at 50m (Full auto as bursting does nothing). The live MCG took 20ish at 60 and 50m. While the live MCG is notably better at range, the MSW-R (with grip) took 15ish rounds at 60m and 10-15 rounds at 50m. The MSW-R thus is faster at killing targets at range in the live environment as it takes fewer bullets while being at 750 rpm right off the bat.

    EDIT: PTS 2.5-3.5s for extended Mag @ 60m, 2-2.5s at 50m, MSW-R is 1-1.5s at 50-60m

    Sure the PTS MCG loses flexibility at range, but it wasn't effective compared to TR's other options. To me, it felt like the live MCG suffers from a lack of niche due to the flexibility that the 0.1 starting ADS CoF gave it.

    Testing was performed by using a personal marker in the VR:

    • Up x 1
  17. Undeadfred

    Buddy I've been playing TR since PS1 and then PS2 late alpha.

    My reference to ZOE's was to the fact that the PTS community told SOE how ridiculous it was and yet they still went live with it.

    The largest exodus this game underwent was bc of ZOE. It was nearly this games BFR. The population is still recovering from ZOE and it remains to be seen if the population will ever really recover.
    • Up x 1
  18. Undeadfred

    Having now tested it for myself, I feel the higher RoF is a much needed change. It just feels like a Minigun now. This change should not be limited to a upgrade though.

    The real issue is how much of your mag you have to dump before you get the increased RoF. This is only compounded by the fact you have to give up extended mags to get the increased RoF. So by the time you are actually able to benefit from the MCG you have precious little time before you run dry.

    If this upgrade lowered the spin up time (or removed it) I would be all for it.

    Also just preference, but I really prefered the old reticle for the MCG. Why change it?
  19. doombro

    I love it right now. It shreds through MAXes in the blink of an eye. I just wish I could use extended mags and the autofire attachments at the same time.
  20. DashRendar

    I'll have to give it a try in combat when it goes live (it's one of my favorite weapons to use currently) but from first glance, it looks like the accuracy could be buffed a slight bit. Maybe buff the accuracy a bit and have the higher RoF attachment decrease accracy slightly. It's obvious the current accuracy was chosen because with the old accuracy the DPS given by the new attachment would be OP as hell.

    On a side note, the constant non-blooming accuracy is a pretty nice change.

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