The NC Nerf Paradox

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Evil Monkey, Apr 3, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Antich

    You still have the highest ROF weapon in the game so you still keep that flavour. And you still have better hipfire weapons and more accurate weapons while on the move which makes them more accurate in real scenarios not when shooting at targets in VR. So you keep those faction advantages as a TR. Maybe are not that obvious as a 200 dmg instead of 163 written on a piece of paper but they are there.
  2. foesjoe

    Yeah, no. Both NC and VS have carbines with a higher ROF than TR. And both NC and VS get access to weapons with the same ADS movement speed and hipfire cones as TR.
  3. Goretzu

    SAW is horrible till you cert it right up, then it's good, although the TR certainly have LMGs just as good at long range. The NC suffers quite a lot from not having an LMG that is genuinely good at close range though.
  4. Xasapis

    Are we seriously consider uncerted weapons for balance purposes?
  5. drNovikov

    TR and VS professional whiers are constantly crying for nerfs upon NC. They have best tanks, best ESFs, easiest to use weapons, but we still kick their *****. They are btthurt.
  6. Xasapis

    There is a reason the NC is the most populated faction in the game, now by a considerable margin. NC lost the underdog outsider faction card months ago.
  7. drNovikov

    Well, my reasons are: 1) My friends playing NC; 2) For Freedom!!!
  8. TheFencer0

    Wise VSMAX is wise. This is the problem I have with the NC Max nerf -- it's not that the NC max was obtusely OP, it was that the TR and VS thought they could play their max in the same way as the NC max, and were upset when they could not.

    The gameplay is not, and should not be similar. Balanced, yes, similar, no. The game is meant to be asymmetrical, so stop trying to make it symmetrical! NC Maxes excelled at ranges of less than 5m, and were acceptable at 10m. NC maxes are good at rushing in and causing damage at great risk to themselves -- sort of how the NC mantra of "strike first, strike hard" works? Any ranges higher than that, any other max wins, unless your a bad pilot. Just because you're in a mech suit doesn't mean you get to be an invincible walking death machine. You must play to the strengths of your empire. The NC realized their max's strengths and weaknesses, and played to its strengths. I'm not sorry if the TR and VS could not do the same (though Xasapis appears to be the herald of good MAX gameplay).
  9. Goretzu

    In the case of it being a starter weapon and that it takes more certs to make it equal to the equiverlent TR LMG.

    Both are certainly drawbacks to the weapon.

    Yeah, but that doesn't have much to do with balance.
    Take PS1 NC was always the most popular faction, more so on the US servers than EU servers, but still more so on the EU. When PS1 was launched in China and East Asia with exactly the same build and balance as the US and EU servers VS was by far the most dominant (in players and server dominance) faction.

    Certainly NC isn't current the highest faction on all servers.
  10. JonboyX

    hmm. The hacksaw max may have needed nerfing on a range aspect, BUT, with the exception of Biolabs, I disagree totally that capture of bases requires any form of prolonged indoor combat where NC having shotgun max units determined the fight outcome.

    All bases are captured by a combination of Tank, and Air power. There are so few sheltered indoor areas that the fights that proceed after a base has been surrounded are just a nod towards infantry combat. Once the generators are down (tiny rooms that you can spam anything in to) you just spam shells/bombs/rockets until the inside looks a bit clearer, then waltz up to the SCU or cap point.

    tl;dr Base caps are decided by vehicles.
  11. MGP

    I like your logic, dude. If TR/VS kills you, it's because of their OP weapons. If you kill TR/VS, it's because of your awesome skills.
  12. drNovikov

    Straw man fallacy.
  13. Purg

    The only thing the stats bares out that we do better than the other factions is our MAX pre-nerf (which is used by less than 1% of the playerbase for more than an hour a week and a good percentage of those would be AA only).

    Our ESF and MBT severely underperform with the same metrics used to complain about the NC MAX against TR/VS. In a faction comparison, NC score the lowest score/hour. We're told that any meaningful combat occurs in CQ yet the majority of our infantry weapons are considered OP because they're supposedly far superior at long range.

    Not trying to be a smart **** and I'm not having a cry (with the extra 3 unlocks I've got a foot in every camp, now and enjoy playing each faction for what they are) but can you explain what you think those reasons are?
  14. BHB_rightnow

    Did you really just say that?
  15. DashRendar

    The SAW has 121 DPS less than the CARV/Orion at its MOST effective range.
    The SAW has 171 DPS less than the CARV at its LEAST effective range
    The SAW has 8.3 DPS lower than the Orion at LEAST effective range (equally performing at range although the Orion has no bullet drop)

    ...and the CARV/Orion are stock weapons as well. The SAW takes hundreds of certs to upgrade and weeks of playtime time to learn. The CARV/Orion are generic performing guns that skills from previous shooters transfers well to.

    SAW cryers are just jealous of what they think it is, simple as that. Similar to when you have a crush on a girl not because of who she is or anything she's done for you, but because of a fake illusion of her you've concocted in your head. This is a psychological fallacy known as projection. Anyone that has done the math or has fielded the gun (VR doesn't count) will know that it's not easy to land successive shots while under fire. The crying usually ends there.

    It looks glorious, it sounds glorious, its stats are glorious, but to use it, you must yourself become glorious. If anything it needs a buff.

    Now take it from Arnold:

  16. Aegie

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AmUavphHXmIxdFhHUzJfN1VYalRnWS0xMnBUdTJpM1E&gid=23
    Pre-nerf NC MAX outscored TR MAX by 8.5% and VS MAX by about 11%.
    Post-nerf TR MBT outscored NC MBT by 20% and post-nerf VS MBT outscored NC MBT by about 17%.

    Yes it is the NC MAX that is the "massive, apparent imbalance"? How so?
  17. Aegie

    No way would I trade dmg per shot for no bullet drop- I have played VS fairly extensively and while I find VS entertaining and fairly unique to play, I prefer NC by a large margin.

    Not to say that any faction is OP, but TR does lead in average DPS in Carbines, LMGs, ARs, and pistols. Among carbines, LMGs, and ARs VS comes in second in 2 out of 3 in terms of DPS with NC coming in second in only 1 out of 3. I do think it is a little strange that the "hardest hitting faction" is also the faction that will tend to put out less damage over time and therefore, even with the fixed flinch, less flinch as well. TR tend to have higher ROF, more ammo, and higher DPS and these combine in most CQC and mid range combat scenarios to mean that TR has to worry quite a bit less about accuracy and shot placement with the only downside being lower damage per shot- but this is somewhat irrelevant when you have higher DPS and are not at very long ranges where first shot accuracy and/or damage drop off has a marked impact. Both putting out lower DPS and tending to have lower ROF not only means that accuracy is much more important but consistently hitting a moving target becomes more difficult the lower the ROF because each shot must be placed rather than being able to "walk" (or with the mouse, "drag") the bullet stream along the target making minor accuracy adjustments along the way- think of the difference between using a beam gun and a cannon. Again, not trying to claim any factions is OP or UP, just an observation- personally, I prefer a playstyle that revolves primarily around few, accurate shots rather than volume of fire and hence why I prefer NC. IMO, PS2 could do a lot more to introduce semi-automatic weapon variants for the different classes that are competitive with other weapons in the category but acheive this competitiveness by trading lots of ROF for lots of damage- think something like the scout rifles but for more classes than just the infiltrator.
  18. Clonecenter-resident

    To answer your question of "how does NC push out?" the answer is with infantry. The maxes are only used for two things.
    A) Breaching the original chokepoint (the teleporter room) which any max can do regardless of faction. You need the health and resistance, tanks as it were, to get out of that door alive and draw fire while your infantry take down the opponents.
    B) Guarding the control points once they are taken.
    Everything else is done with regular infantry. Enemy maxes? HA rockets. Snipers? LA. Clumps of infantry hiding in rooms/around corners? Engineer with ubgl. With medics to back everyone up and keep the push going you don't need the maxes for anything but meatshields in any type of open environment.
  19. Antich

    So basicly you send infantry against 10 Mercy MAXes? Sure a mercy max has a ttk of 0.5sec instead of instant kill, how much dmg you do with infantry to them in that time? Don´t forget they have backup also so. Also don´t forget they will be most likely suppressing the doors through you need to push so it´s not even about reaction time and lag there, you will instantly start getting hit.
    Also remind me why an enginner with ubgl can´t be used about clumps of NC MAXes and their support but can be used against infantry doing it? Or AV grenades?
  20. TomaHawk

    FIXED.

    You are welcome.

    p.s. ScaMaxxes don't scare me. I play TR. I find ways to deal with them. Grenade Bandolier 2, Devastator, even Claymores have their teeth.

    We have the tools. We have the cojones. The trick is actually using both.

    You're welcome once more.

    [IMG]
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.