The NC desperately needs a buff for their LMG to atleast put up a fight.

Yes Versitile means jack of all trades but master of none theese weapons could exist but they would be considered garbage as any weapon designed for that range would outperform it if you want versatility simply choose a weapon thats good at close range decent at medium range and then have a side arm that can make up for long range like the blackhand. Look at vehicles even tho the Basilisk isnt a garbage weapon people prefer the specific counter weapons and replace the jack of all trades basilisk.

I wish the bull got the rhino buff too, I love my bull, I find it to be the only good TR LMG...

The saw as a starter weapon has been on the low end for years now. Evidently though since people manage to get a few kills with it they think its balanced. Its horrible recoil , lowest dps between carv 9 and orion and highest tkk.. 200 dmg per bullet don't mean a damn if all things being equal in terms of player skill the other two starter lmgs will more likely win in a 1 v 1. I have asked for the gun to be 540 to 550 rof to bring it in line with the rest but its just not going to happen at this point. Save money buy anchor or em6 and forget godsaw ever existed.

Eh... the T32 Bull could stand to be turned into an 125 damage tier class of LMG. Right now, it's completely eclipsed by the NS-15M as a rifle+, and the T16 Rhino as a sustained fire weapon. One is literally picking the Bull over the 15 for the recoil pattern and for the hip CoF compared to the T16 Rhino and that's about it. It actually struggles to have a real niche.

But then, my opinion might change if everyone I shot died in seemingly 2 shots and were oblivious, terrible shots themselves. But then montage and kill streak videos only show the "best" of moments. And that reload animation. My God, give it a box mag already. It also carries less ammo than most TR weapons.

As for the NC, replacing the SAW with the GD-22s as a default LMG would go a long way. The SAW is a beast of weapon stock in my hands, but most newbs can't handle it.

The EM1 however suffers from the same identity crisis as the T32 Bull... it's essentially a T16 Rhino shoe-horned into a CQC role.

The TR's gun is quite easy to control and get extremely easy kills if you manage to land a few headshots which again is easy due to high ROF and higher accuracy (well higher than NC anyways). NC compared with VS and TR in terms of TTK, they lose bad..really bad.

EM

EM-6,EM-1, and the other Gauss SAW 6 was it? i forgot the name, they all look alike and sound alike.

GD-22s is actually quite good and one of the best weapons for NC if you put certs into it but the SAW you actually need **** load of time and skill to make do with it so yea we can't handle it. I bought the GD-22s disappointed that it only had 2 attachments but i got easier kills with it than the SAW.

I did write that i am new but i actually took the time to search in other discussions about NC problems and evidence actually shows that NC had lower DPS and higher TTK. An increased ROF is a minor buff not anything game breaking or cause VS/TR players to scream OP OP!! (skilled NC guys might be OP okay) but as i said "Overall". And the less recoil so new ones will have a easier time trying to adapt to the damn default SAW.

I do agree with NC needing to change its default starter LMG. EM-1 ( Its actually quite suitable for a starter) , EM-6 ( okay, i think this should be the default gun), GD-22s ( Gun is really awesome but i still choose EM-6 for default)..

I did write that i am new but i actually took the time to search in other discussions about NC problems and evidence actually shows that NC had lower DPS and higher TTK. An increased ROF is a minor buff not anything game breaking or cause VS/TR players to scream OP OP!! (skilled NC guys might be OP okay) but as i said "Overall". And the less recoil so new ones will have a easier time trying to adapt to the damn default SAW.

I do agree with NC needing to change its default starter LMG. EM-1 ( Its actually quite suitable for a starter) , EM-6 ( okay, i think this should be the default gun), GD-22s ( Gun is really awesome but i still choose EM-6 for default)..

I play Connery aswell and yea i'd agree NC is kinda bad. They like to camp in spawn rooms rather than storm out and retake the control console by force and complain later on or say VS and TR is OP plz nerf.

SAW has same DPS as Anchor and EM6. Just sayin'. It does have a disadvantage in CQC due to low RoF and 200 dmg being hardcountered by nanoweave, though.

It's a ranged LMG. At 30-50m, with proper attachments and recoil control - the ungodly, rare and overcomplicated skill of "pull the mouse down" - it's gonna outperform both Orion and CARV by a large margin.

If the gun doesn't hold to expectation of "HA runs in the room pow pow everyone dead", it's only the fault of expectation being wrong. SAW will fulfill completely the expectation of "guy runs with a heavy gun to a rock, sets it, and DUDUDUD-*click*-DUUDUDUDU-*click*s enemy infantry at range".

On the nanoweave bit - it the SAW suffers the worst to nano weave initially, but mitigates the effects of nanoweave over distance. The 143 weapons will require another additional round sooner than the 167 weapons and far sooner than the 200 tier weapons will. This rule carries over into resist shield too by the way. Just the way the math works out. Kind of supports it as a med-long range option, though I'm hard pressed to believe everyone is wearing nanoweave.

I said "in CQC", didn't I? Specifically, I was talking within maximum damage range, where nanoweave increases TTK by 40% despite providing only 20% damage resistance.

Well now, it really comes down to "who shot first" and if they maintained their accuracy. When I use the SAW (with a LASER might I add) I tend to dominate my 1 on 1's with other HA's. Can't tell you what shield they might be using, and I know I'm not that great with head shots.

And that's really the trick pure stat gauging can only roughly account for.

Pure stat gauging doesn't set as a goal to decide which gun will win, because people win, not weapons. Stat gauging only decides which gun is favored more, where the gun's strengths and weaknesses lie. SAW's weaknesses lie in CQC, that's all I'm saying.

It's totally possible to win a CQC fight with a Beamer against, say, Lynx. It's just harder than doing the opposite.

Assuming you're talking about the SirCerealBox vid, he's tap firing heads. It's a 4 headshot kill out to pretty decent range(except vs. HA w/shield) which can look pretty fast. And he's very good at getting those 4 headshots quickly.

His accuracy is way, way better than your average player. It may look like he's farming bads but people aren't always good about realizing how they'd perform at the same fight.

My best is probably his worst and I'm arguably better than your average player.

I don't know where that is coming from. There's a single gun that's hard to control on NC, and that's the SAW. But the rest? Which weapon is actually wrong with NC? Every niche is rather well covered and 167 damage tier has more controllable recoil patterns. On the HA, since it would seem that's the only class balance that matters in the game </sarcasm>, only the EM1 is somewhat lackluster.
The worst primary guns, relatively, have to be the S variants (poorer horizontal recoil pattern than default pick) and the Gauss rifle burst (because HVA= 0m/s), and they're still good in absolute.

Better yet, if the SAW change on the PTS goes live, it'll be even with the rest in ads CoF.

The Gauss Saw is just a substandard LMG and not just for new players, its CQC failings where the majority of infantry combat happens is too hard to overlook, this extends to the Godsaw, which i don't use for the same reason, i'd auraxium it, but i got the directive weapon no need to torture myself with the NC6 V2.0.

Agreed.

They should probably pick things that accentuate faction traits even more with the defaults.

Providing normalized (ish) defaults would be boring

Example being: TR LA/Engi Started out with the Lynx, NC started out with the ACX-11 and VS Started out with the Pulsar C or Solstice.

Highest ROF/Highest magazine capacity should be the easiest to acquire (low cert cost) for the TR, with harder hitting/low recoil weapons being the most expensive to acquire. (Ex. Lynx, TORQ, CARV)
Highest Damage/SPA Weapons should be easiest to acquire for the NC, with faster firing ROF stuff being the most expensive to acquire. (Ex. Reaper, Albatross, ACX-11, Gauss SAW, Gause SAW S)
Lowest Recoil/Fastest Reload weapons should be easiest for VS to acquire, with higher damage weapons being in the middle and highest ROF being at the highest, price wise. (Ex. CME, Pulsar, Solstice, Polaris/Pulsar LSW?)

The GD-22S would be a great starter, however...every default weapon for every class except Infiltrators has an S version. In the case of the NC, this is the NC6S Gauss Saw S, which is a 577 RPM 167-damage weapon. It also has the same model as the SAW and the EM6, with a slightly different texture. Continuing with the pattern that other factions follow it'd make a bit more sense for the default LMG to be the EM6 and for the SAW S to be renamed.

Before anyone says the VS don't have an S-model LMG...Flare VE6. All VS S-models are black, and globally all S-models have a very wide range of attachments available. The Flare is no exception to any of these rules. Technically your Flare is an Orion S. How this was deemed logical, I have no idea.

I'm glad i'm not the only one who ever took note of this. I find is so weird that our S variant for LMG's only is 167 and 143 for AR and Carbine.

You'd think the SVA-88 would be our S and the flare something else but nope.