The misconception of underpowered NC weapons

Neither, the bouncing is based on hit. Playing NC, getting the drop on people, knowing my recoil pattern, lining up the shot and watching the 4th shot go wide because I'm crouched and stationary (3rd shot if I'm moving, standing or being hit) is frustrating. The guy then turns around with a sliver of HP, shoots me before my CoF resets and now I can't hit him and the TTK is so low in this game that I'll probably get shredded before I can get into cover.

The screen shake is probably the biggest issue the more I play and the more I try out TR's guns to make sure it's not all in my head. I get hit by an NC bullet, I can scramble to cover, then pop out with a fresh CoF and put a burst into his face that either kills him or comes damn close. Honestly I'd like to see the mechanic either disappear entirely or only happen when someone rings your dome. I'd also like to see how this game plays if you just doubled everyone's shields/HP, I bet you'd see better results on the guns across the board.

^This. Personally I think that aim shake be removed entirely, but if it's here to stay it makes little sense that easier to control weapons would cause the same amount of aim shake as weapons that take more work to use.

I've got so many NC weapons with grips, advanced grips, compensators, etc. The list goes on. The question isn't whether or not a pro FPS player can/can't shred with NC weapons. The concern I have is that smart players are moving to TR because its easier to shred everyone else pro or not with less effort. That is why I'm moving over to TR.

I went over to TR for an hour and ended up with double the K/D ratio with less effort and frustration playing the exact same way I play with NC weapons. Then again, according to Xiphos, I suck and so does my computer. It just magically works better when I play TR.

Some of the crying is tradition.

NC cries. A lot.

I wish you could still see the NC posts from the days of Surgile Quadshot. NC were sitting at 40-45% of global population, they still claimed they where underpowered and everyone else was OP.

The weapons are fine. The damage received recoil is not.

VS and TR enjoy a small COF and high ROF, meaning that more rounds get down range through full-auto faster than our slow ROF weapons can. The more rounds that get down range, the more hits, the more damage received recoil.

TR .v. VS, this is an even playing field. But VS/TR .v. NC, that is where the problem lies. Added on top of our already high recoil weapons, the repetitive recoil received from the high ROF enemy weapons, and we're having to compensate twice as much compared to the other factions.

The damage received recoil can not be compensated for, as a result, our weapons can fly away before we get back on target for what limited shots we can place before death. 9 times out of 10, we will lose - generally excluding CQC where our weapons are efficient at full-auto

The fix? Simple. Our weapons hit hard, as a result the "oompf" needs to be twice as hard.

If we get rounds on target the damage recoil that VS/TR experience should be at bare minimum, twice as much as what we experience from their weapons.

It makes logical sense if our weapons are supposedly hitting harder. Because where TR/VS get more hits on us for average damage recoil. When our rounds hit them less often from slower ROF, the damage recoil is twice as hard forcing them to re-target us and giving us a chance.

IMO, it would be fair and balanced.

Ok, I know this just is one example, but watch the video in http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...-swore-off-the-nerfed-carv.71618/#post-899078

and then go try out the EM6 and put fore grip and comp on it and tell me NC recoils the same. lol

I have a fully certed EM6, and at 20m, if I start firing ADS at the enemies waist, in less than a second, the bullets are going over his head. I can and do try pulling down, but usually die anyway. Now I know why.

That could mean many things (including random variation), but a large imbalance is unlikely because the weapons themselves don't differ enough to explain a double K/D ratio.

Having the advantage of numbers, vehicles or terrain will let you easily farm the enemy but it doesn't say anything about the weapons and I think this most likely explanation. Another one is that like to fight in close quarters, and the high dps weapons will work better for that.

On a different note, terrain and vehicles are the reason for disparities in territory holding.

Magriders are the biggest factor. They are overpowered at range and dominate the relatively even terrain of Esamir where the other tanks have no chance of getting close without being seen. On Esamir, the TR and NC warpgates are close together as well. On Indar, NC and VS start close but NC is sandwiched into a mountainous area where it literally fights an uphill battle past the first few zones, whereas VS has once again relatively even terrain to dominate with Magriders. Meanwhile TR has a large area to the north with relatively flat terrain and it's separated by mountains from NC and VS. Nobody plays on Amerish due to all the mountains. NC also has the problem of the Reaver being a bit weak, so they have fewer ESF pilots. TR can compensate for the Prowler with the Mosquito, but NC can't compensate the scarcity of Reavers with Vanguards. At least that's my take on it.

I understand what you're saying, but I'm telling you - At least for me, TR weapons make me more successful in infantry battles. I don't want to leave NC due to my time and money invested on all the classes there, but at the same time, I want to have fun. I have more fun playing as TR because the weapons work against everyone no matter the scenario. I don't feel handicapped playing as TR, or VS.

Playing as NC, the infantry weapons just don't work as well in most scenarios against the other factions.

You should always be pulling down. That is what good users of every gun do.

The Carv actually has more recoil over time than the SAW does. People you see in videos are adjusting for it. After a while it is muscle memory. You just know at what speed to pull down on your mouse to counter the recoil.

That is why when people look at videos of some people it appears they have no recoil. But if you go into a WG and hold down LMB with out countering you'll see the guns kick up just the same.

See, I'm not the only one:

http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/a-newbies-perspective.72052/

Made a series of calculations ... that would calculate the difference in DPS at a distance of 10 meters. Took basic LMG. Came next.
DPS.
NC - 4828
TR - 5310
VS - 5393
...
Imbalance just do not?

Here EXEL formula.
http://letitbit.net/download/10008.1d73d49013783b029528e8567816/DPS_on_Distans.xls.html
PS. On the pages of the same formula ... that would just be easier to compare. You can change the distance ... and later try a correction to reduce the damage to the distance ... it will have to separately calculate.

NC weapons are harder to use but can be more powerful if mastered.

I struggled with NC Engi guns until the GD-7F. Now the Toasters and Fascists struggle, with getting their face shot off, in a hurry.

I will add. In the formula, aimed fire.
PS. That would "equalize" damage must be raised at the damage to NC 20 - 25.

Perhaps you should try VS. Every time I am on there is experience bonus because it has the least amount of people playing that faction. I am playing on Connery, and every single time, not just once or twice but every single time they have an xp bonus because there are the least amount of people in that faction. So stop blowing smoke. All weapons need time to get used to. I play HA and still using default weapons, I have to get used to how to best use each weapon, its not just point and shoot and I should hit something.

Your problem is that you are comparing a TR weapon with a cost of 0 certs with an NC weapon that costs 1000 certs to use at all. SOE's "Sidegrade" talk be damned, if you want to get an accurate comparison of faction weaponry either use the default weapon or an upgrade from BOTH factions.

Also, 0m TTK is irrelevant in this game because it's faster than reaction time in any case. If you get the drop on someone at point blank you will win regardless of your weapon. Try comparing TTKs that are actually important in this game, such as at 30-50m with cover and players who don't magically land every shot.

NC have: Amazing sniper, Amazing Max, Very good LA, and a decent HA if you put certs into it. I've never played engy or medic for NC, but I find myself even losing to the AF-19 Merc as a Heavy Assault for TR.

They're weapons are not underpowered, your players are underpowered.

As I've said, the point was not to compare weapons but to dispel a few misconceptions and incorrect assumptions (such as assuming that default weapons are meant to be used at the same ranges and in the same way, or the myth that it is much harder to control recoil with NC weapons).

I'm surprised to read this. The typical NC weapon does better at mid range than close range because long bursts are not as effective as series of short bursts for that. That's where the typically higher bullet damage becomes an advantage despite the typically slightly lower dps.

lol its very hard to compensate for a perfect vertical recoil lol.start at the hip let the recoil pull you up to the head and dead,easy mode.first shot recoil multiplier,well the nc dont have this stat. meaning they point and shoot and the first shot will hit every time. so in a since they all have the best ranged weapons in the game. shoot 1 bullet at a time and own everyone beyond 100 m.
nc weapons are a joke. avg carbine hits as hard as a tr lmg,hell they even have a carbine that hits as hard as our battle rifle. underpowered????i expect a ninja nerf is inc.