I've been playing NC since beta, always loved the max, but never really sat down to do any math for the thing. I've always been a big fan of the Mattock, but never had the numbers to show why it was better than the hacksaws the rest of the faction was worshiping, until i finally decided to grind some numbers. http://planetside.wikia.com/wiki/MAX_Anti-Infantry Here is the data if you'd like to run through it yourself. So what I found was that my instincts were right, the hacksaws are actually terrible. THESE NUMBERS ARE VERSUS MAX UNITS, and rounded to the tenth TTK at point blank: Scattercannon: 6.0s Hacksaw: 6.0s Grinder: 2.1s(because it never needed to reload) Mattock: 6.3s Ok, so clearly the mattock under-performed in this one, but wait... when do you EVER fight point blank? Lets step out to about 10m TTK at 10m: Scattercannon: 6.6s Hacksaw: 11.6s Grinder: 7.63s Mattock: 6.3s WOW that made a difference. Lets step out further.... TTK at 15m: Scattercannon: 17s Hacksaw: 32.2s Grinder: 16.1s Mattock: 7.5s And a little further... TTK at 20m: Scattercannon: 31s Hacksaw: 80.5s Grinder: 32.5s Mattock: 13.26s Well NC, now we have our numbers. Hacksaws are dead unless you've stepped on their foot to pin them down. Mattocks and grinders are our only remaining viable AI option, and they're a pretty good one. I have not yet run the numbers for what happens when you pop on extended mags, but you can imagine how much they are an absolute necessity to compete max to max. No more fighting NC max UP arguments, get rid of those hacksaws and we'll see why SOE never did anything about it. Hope the numbers help you roll some heads! Good luck NC.
Most definitely. I figured I'd add, that I'm clearly no pro, KDR is around .68, but this is what I accomplished last night https://players.planetside2.com/#!/5428010917272448337/killboard/?view=timeline&filter=all
I cannot edit, so I'll type it. Last night was a K/D of around 16.5 and around 52 kills during an Esamir alert. I forgot that the link would change every time I play
I was actually somewhat astonished at how well stock Mattocks kill infantry at ranges I thought would require more shots. The magazine size is quite a pain without the exmags though.
Yeah I agree, I was really surprised at the difference when I tried playing without them. Absolutely the first cert when you grab new mattocks, but its well worth replacing those old hacksaws with them regardless of the extended mag cert.
Every MAX shotgun without Ext Mag is a joke. I use the Scattercannons (I needed to buy just one) and without Extended mag they are just good for hunting lone wolves. Our Extended mags should cost less, a lot less
I'd shorten this quote to the above. Sure would be nice if AI MAX weapons were balanced to all be interesting, worthwhile variations on each other. But for now, it's Mattock-only.
https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/max-balance-part-1-nc.138919/ If you want the details and math used. Not the OPs but it is mine.
And our AV is also significantly less effective against infantry then the other 2 empires. All that whining really paid off for the TR and VS gj.
Whoa, I didn't steal your math, but did use your source. Our results are naturally similar. You've included miss percentages and DPS in your calculations, and did get some data differences. To be honest yours shows more steps, and added detail and I probably should have searched for it and just given it a bump. :\ I am sorry if it appears that I've stolen anything from you, but I'd really rather not turn a thread aimed to improve an empire into an argument. Feel free to message me though, as that is where personal matters belong. It appears you used tests to determine the miss percentage for example, where I used the CoF, what amount of that area would not be filled by an enemy.
sure because showing us that it takes 2 mags to kill something at 20m makes everything perfect! now do the same TTK tests for TR and VS weapons (who by the way don't need to sit through a 4 second reload in order to kill a max.) i'm sorry but in every way you can think of (except for a 0.1s faster TTK within 10m) NC max fails in comparison.
Sorry my point was that rather than fighting we should use our tools to the best of their ability, and kill em anyways. disadvantage or not.
Not saying you stole anything. Just showing the math and proving this isn't based off of just numbers on spreadsheets but taking range, COF, pellet spread, damage drop, and target size into account. I don't really care if you ripped my data or made your own that shows the same thing. From your PM it looks like you did do the math on your own and did it right. That's great! It shows that there's others that know how to backup what they say and that I have confirmation of my data from someone else coming to the same results without even knowing about my work. You did good. No need to say sorry.
That's nice to hear, thanks. I do really like the detail you put into your thread, and the videos to back up the data. You said you were running tests for the other maxes, did you manage to complete that work as well?
https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/max-balance-part-4-everything-ai.139234/ That compares them all and has the links to each of the MAXes math in it.
I suppose based on that I need to redact the whole"stop fighting NC max UP arguments" statement. If only I was allowed to edit.