The Lesson.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by DIGGSAN0, Oct 4, 2019.

  1. DarkStarAnubis

    I was using the grammar of some programming language ("==" is equal and "!=" is not equal).

    If I exploit I am using the game mechanics to get an advantage (e.g. climbing on a steep rock as per the video above, or using the above-the-shoulder view to see enemies): if I cheat, I am altering the game mechanics to get an advantage (e.g. editing the game assets to increase the head size). Both provides an advantage of course but there is a universe of difference.

    Read carefully the EULA: you wont' find any reference to exploiting, since everything I can do within the game boundaries is playing, because the game has been designed to allow me to do it (macros are mentioned in the EULA however).

    But besides this semantic discussion, my point is another: whereas cheating can be fought (without much success) by adding layers of data encryption, 3rd party checks, monitoring and so on, exploiting can be prevented mainly by designing software in a proper way and most of all, testing it in depth.

    I will make a real-life example of what I mean: when NSO were introduced the implementation was buggy (it still is, but let's not dwell on it). An NSO character could drop anti-personnel mines inside the spawnroom and when the base was captured the mines (not belonging to the losing faction) were not automatically detonated.

    I killed in this way tens of players (side note: this bug has been reported and fixed since a while).
    • Up x 2

    Your arguments have now come to a ridiculous state. Recursion was made by a Planetside 2 Outfit and accepted by the Devs long time sgo, everyone on reddit does use this.

    If you would be Neo from would have choosen the Red Pill, the Illusion that you want to keep.

    I am showing you guys how People play this game with or without me, just because I slap the truth into your face doesn't mean that I am the bad gjy here.

    I played over 2500h (Just recorded on Steam) and I know the physics and momentum, getting to climb line this is not just done by pushing random buttons, In fact you have to know what you are doing, what angle are runnable and which are climbable. Same for going down without taking damage.

    No game was designed to be speedrun, no game was supposed to have cheaters but how many have none?

    As a Stalker you have to geat creative, leading me to parkour.
    I am not the only one, Iridar51 showed climbing (on his own website even), Cutebeaver did, also Wrel.

    I can't take words like "Climbing is exploiting because I have sh*tty RIG". Hey guy wake up I had a effing 200€ Laptop running at max 20fps.

    EVERY good player in Planetside 2 has knowledge about Recursion stat tracker and it is in fact allowed.

    It is not like one Dev told me secretly how to do that. It was Wrel showing in a Video how to Jump up walls with over 60fps.

    Didn't I mention that I do not use the shot Macro in my first post? Sometimed for lulz but a Crossblw does not benefit from a Macrl, trust me, I know it better than you ;)

    I am not ruining your game (I love it too), I am trying to educate you guys what is happening IN the game.

    Maybe if you try for yourselves you will see that it is not done that easy that it may look like.

    That is how I meant it
  4. FLHuk

    He said exactly what I was going to say but didn't.

    Asus Sonic Radar, designed to give the hearing impaired a gaming experience. Usable as a cheat for those with perfect hearing.

    No one can tell the difference.... Yet one use is clearly a cheat, IE, gaining an advantage you're not supposed to have.

    I didn't say it as I was hoping you were trying to force them to get rid of these magic tricks. I'd love that too so I removed those lines.

    However saying you've been doing x since 2016 does sound a little "Well, I've had my fun, time to **** in the stew!"
    • Up x 1

    I did not under any circumstances say that I influenced Planetside 2 into a bad direction. For that I am just a Planetman.

    After doing Magic tricks you get tired because you can't invent new ones.

    Yes I had my fun but not as a cheating entity more as a Player of the game and after D0ku and some People left Planetside 2, the case is clear that new content such as weapons will decline.

    D0ku still made many Models in advance but that will not feed the playerbase enough.

    After H1Z1, Everquest Next, Landmark and other failed attempts, Planetside Arena will likely join that club.

    I know it is heart breaking and I know that a normal human reaction are the states of grief.


    Currently we are at Denial. So was I
  6. Demigan

    And the last time I checked this it was the other way around. The Motion spotter has the Sensor Dart method of scanning and the motion spotter the cylinder.

    I could swear that my thesis is right because you can shot a dart on the top of the Biolab and still see people on the lowest ground.

    This was also the Pro and Con of Darts and Spotters, otherwise the Spotter you set on the ground would be a nobrainer.

    Now we see some out of VR Applications

    Andvari Barracks


    see how stupidly easy that is? it works on running too....I don't know if it does anything to your hitbox because of clientside.

    Imagine a pendulum going back and forth more and more, I just push crouch(hold) in the right moment.

    I don't know how useful that is since you need much time to do so and I've never done this in a fight because it is too complicated to do so.....others mights do this with a macro.
  10. Demigan

    The spotter has the advantage of the cone, but there's barely any place where you have this advantage outside of the Biolabs. The advantage of darts is that you can quickly deploy several within your LOS without having to be within 50m of the dart itself to scan a wide area and they are easily replenisheable. To me the recon darts have therefore always been the go-to item.

    The reason why I'm so sure it's the motion spotter that has the cylinder is because I've had heated discussions about it. I proclaimed that all recon equipment simply used a sphere while others proclaimed they were all cylinders. It wasn't until much later that I found out they based it on the Motion spotter only and I based it on my experience with the Recon Dart and the Proxy Radar. Place one below a Biolab airpad and you will not spot anyone on top (well I'm not sure anymore if the airpad is more than 50m higher, but in any case even if it were lower than 50m then only if players are standing almost exactly above the dart would they be spotted). In the meantime the motion spotter can spot people at the top within it's full 50m cylinder radius.
  11. DIGGSAN0

    I would want to help you test it so we both know the right answer ;)
  12. Campagne

    Ah, I see. Programming is all Greek to me. :p

    There is a pretty big difference but the end result is still the same: An unfair, unintended (by developers) advantage which very often comes at the cost of other players and goes against a sportsmanlike competition.

    Are you sure it's not just broadly lumped in under "cheating?"

    As I said previously I just do't think the dev team is truly capable of fixing some of the problems. Sometimes I even still see floating objects, if those don't get fixed what hope is there for an entire terrain feature? However I still maintain it's cheating to exploit regardless of how the cheat can be fixed.

    Would you personally consider this cheating? I definitely would myself. The mines shouldn't have ever killed anyone but you. Yes, the bug should have never made it through testing but it did and allowed for the detriment of tens of players.

    The less players realize they can break things in their favour the better the game will be for everyone.
  13. DarkStarAnubis

    Much better ;)

    Now that the difference between exploiting and cheating is clear, let's talk about what you perceive as "unfair, unintended (by developers) advantage":

    Taking aside the fact that what the developers did not intend yet it is in the game could fill the Grand Canyon (*) what the OP has explained about climbing walls is something everybody (YOU too) can do. It is unfair only toward the players who have no clue it can be done. For once, thanks Wrel (the PS2 lead designer, mind you!) for putting that black on white in a video.

    (*) Did I tell you about the "Unstable Warpgates" bug? When most of the continent is disabled? Well if an infiltrator goes into a disabled base he can still hack terminals, turrets, control points and generators at will. Pick up a derelict, always empty continent outside prime time, go there and complete the "Objectives" directive in a few hours of game-play. This bug has been reported but partially fixed. As usual.
  14. Exileant

    :D Well if you play the game right, it will not matter if he shares any tips and tricks. ;) You will still be able to beat the people who do them. :eek: You just make sure YOU do not do anything questionable, and you maintain your pride of not doing so.
  15. Campagne

    Sorry, I think you've misunderstood me. :p There is a big difference, but only in the methods used to cheat. Traditional scripts or exploitation, doesn't matter. Both are cheating because they provide an unfair advantage which isn't supposed to be obtainable.

    This is unfortunately false. Not everyone can climb walls, because it requires a minimum of 60FPS to do so. In large battles this becomes even more of an issue for a lot of players.

    I'm not sure Wrel is PS2's lead designer, but the video he made showing the exploit was well before he ascended from salty vet to he who proclaims the salt.

    If one is to exploit, at the very least things like that which don't harm others are at least less bad.
  16. Scrundle

    The reason climbing is allowed is very very simple.
    It's clearly not intended behavior on account of the mechanics being linked to framerate and from a design perspective it obsoleting the point of one class. So why is it in the game and why isn't it punished? Because they can't fix it.
    They are not capable of fixing climbing, it is rooted so deeply into the engine that nothing short of a complete rework can fix it and that's not been something they've had the knowledge or manpower to do for years now.

    So if they can't fix it, can't stop players doing it, how can they levy any sort of punishment against it? You can't use automatic systems to check for it because anybody getting stuck in a little geometry hiccup (of which the maps are all covered with, as you all know) could inadvertently use climbing to escape, without even being aware of what it is!

    The reason this and basically everything else listed in the original post is still in game is GROSS INCOMPETENCE and it isn't going to be fixed.
    • Up x 1
  17. Demigan

    Ah yes, so if someone uses an exploit that for example makes them have the health of a MAX while they have the weapons and abilities of an LA, then all is hunky dory as long as *I* play the game right. Sure man!
  18. Trigga

    So if im playing Poker and i take a look at other peoples cards is that a cheat or an exploit?
  19. Exileant

    o_O I would be shocked if that were the case. Most game agreements include exploits as like the second thing after blatant hacking. But the way I see it, is if it can be done in the game without any coding or obvious unfair advantage I do not care. What is climbing the side of a building going to accomplish that me swapping to L.A. can't even faster? :confused: It is like saying you can get a Magrider on a building..... Yaaaaaaay bring on the Devastors for the easy win! :p Even if you climb in a tree as an infiltrator, someone is going to see you shoot, and then poof you. :D So why not stick to what was meant to hide in high places? Hahaha!
  20. Exileant

    :eek: Absolutely! My goodness, where is your competitive drive!? Nothing makes my parts tremble more than demolishing a cheater. It is like figuring out a puzzle. So he has more armor, so what? If you defeat him and he had more armor because he was cheating, what does that make you? :cool: Well, that makes you like me. o_O It is not about how much armor the person has. Who cares, eventually the person will run out of life, not to mention there is a legal way to kill every single suit, no matter the size in one shot. So yes, it is called Critical Thinking. See? :D This is what happens when you live on a spoiled faction that is given everything it needs to dominate the competition. You are not forced to learn new tricks. The only thing you do is pick your best gun, and when that does not work, you are stuck. I am used to fighting cheaters, it feels that way all the time. :p I actually had a guy tell me there was no way I should have been able to bring him down BECAUSE he was cheating. That one took the cake! ;) So yeah, I meant what I said. Get your "Glitchers Get GOT" Feat.