The issue with Liberators from my experience

You know how I know that's not true? There are liberators flying around....

The only real problem with the liberator is that it's hard to contribute to the main battle. As a lib pilot, 1 AA max can scare me off and in a red alert base, there's plenty of those around. Meanwhile I'm after yellow alert or maybe orange alert bases and picking off smaller squads who are less likely to have friendly air or heavy anti air cover.

My point is, I get the meat of my kills while staying away from the main fight because the reduced amount of danger keeps me in the air for longer. I could take it or leave it, but that's the best conversation to have about libs at the moment.

Yeah, because they're quite good at what they do if no one hassles them. I'm not sure what server your on, but that just doesnt happen on Connery. If there is a lib in the air and any friendly ESF within 5 grids, you can sure as hell bet there going to at least try and kill it or chase it out of the airspace.

I see Skyguards running around too. Just because I see them, should I automatically assume that they are actually a useable, worthwhile weapons platform too?

I have EVERY AA variant certed for my NC character. Dual burster, Hawk, Skyguard, Tomcats, Rotary. The only thing I don't have certed is an A30 walker. LIBERATORS ARE FINE. Learn what AA is effective in what numbers vs what targets.

Lets have a look at real life, shall we? (Gasp!)

Was it Germany's static ground based air defense that scared American bomber pilots senseless? No. It was the Luftwaffe's interceptors. Now that doesn't mean our bombers weren't occasionally taken out by Flak. They we're, often enough for it to be a threat. But it was the fighters they feared the most.

It's quite possible that liberators aren't a problem on Connery. I don't know because I don't play on Connery. But, judging from the forums, they're definitely a problem on some (if not most) servers. And I don't think it's necessarily that they're overpowered compared to their counters. I just think people aren't using their counters enough, because it's not rewarding enough. Playing as AA gets you very little XP compared to doing almost anything else. And that's a problem. I think that the only change that needs to be made is a massive increase in the amount of XP ESFs and liberators give when they're destroyed.

With the rate you get resources in this game, who cares. You're almost never unable to spawn a vehicle of some description. It's a false argument that things should be harder because they cost resources, because the recourse are abundant and the cool-downs short.

If they're that good, make them cost 750 resource and spawn once every 30 mins at most.

We're discussing balance in tactical manner, not what method is better for getting exp and certs.

They are interrelated. In actual wars, people do what is necessary to help their side win. But in PlanetSide, people do what will get them the most XP. If hunting liberators gave more XP, more ESF's would do it, and that would balance the game tactically.

Now that isn't a bad idea at all. I think that's a good idea actually, because you are correct, sometimes, if you really plan on playing a dedicated AA, there can be quiet spells where you aren't making much certs compared to say, a Lib hovering over infantry who aren't trying to field proper AA to take it down.

But this bares the question: Should EVERYTHING in this game be balanced on how much certs you can make per hour from it? I'm going to argue that it shouldn't, because it would be impossible to do so for a huge variety of reasons that I'm just not going to get into here without derailing the topic at hand.

SOE has already stated that there is another upward tick in effectiveness planned for ground based AA in the works. Hopefully, it's primarily focused on the Skyguard, which as of right now, is 1000 wasted certs. It deals less damage and is harder to use than a dual burster max for the same cert cost.

Really, the AA superiority should look like this:

AA Certed ESF > Skyguard > Burster max > A2G Missile Launcher in terms of effectiveness.

Right now, however, we're kind of here:

Burster MAX > AA Certed ESF > A2G Missile Launcher > Skyguard

This is skewing the game in a bad way. Infantry and tanks are WAY more vulnerable in open areas due to no one pulling Skyguards to roll with them, and certain bases are inherently too hazardous for aircraft because on top of heavy AA turrets, every nook and cranny has an AA max stuffed into it currently.

If they made AA Maxes less effective and the Skyguard made more effective, you would see this change much, much for the better. Aircraft wouldn't be the be all end all fighting style in between bases and outposts, and bases wouldn't automatically be no fly zones for them either.

First fact

Enjoy your OP libbys while they last, when the devs check the stats on that **** the nerf bat will come down hard and fast. Fact.

Second

They really are OP.

Not just a bit either.

Mobility, fire power and durability in one package.
What is the cost? you need more than 1 guy on board...not quite true.

As some of you may be aware you see 1 man libbys too now, using the C30Tankbuster.
First response is gonna be how those have terrible drop, hard to aim BLAH BLAH BLAH.
I have done it myself, 2 clips of that thing and as long as you've had some practice, know how to hover properly (very easy in the libby by the way, easier than in an ESF (Empire Specific Fighter!)) you can kill any tank, sundy etc.

Actually for your reading pleasure with the C30 tank buster you can kill

An ESF in 1 clip
MBT, Lightning or Sunderer in 2 clips
A Liberator in 3 clips

Yep.

The only counter to libby is ESF or another Libby.

Anyone who thinks that is balanced, or hell even moderately fun for EVERYONE ELSE is crazy.

Does the libby need to perform a role, yes.

It needs to provide fire "support" to ground forces, not annihilate all ground force.

I look forward to the Devs getting back from holiday to fix this. I do not look forward to the ******* that will ***** they can't farm anymore.

Edit: Exolus the Burster MAX is as it should be, other AA needs to be buffed, also the AA certed ESF is better than the AA MAX as it can actually hunt down and finish its query off, unlike the burster.

No point reading the thread as everyone knows its nothing wrong with air
Both air and ground is fine, except ALL THE AA

Yes, Base Turrets are nice up close, but suck at range
G2A have ****y lock-on range (cant lock-on to libs right above your head..)
Skyguard cant hit a galaxy

Now, all this would be fine, if air could only hit air..

I like your whole post but you have forgott the A30 Walker. This weapon is the worst 1000 Certs investion one can make. But I agree, the skyguard is not much better.

I just hope the devs will not nerf it until it is useless. We need Libs and I like to see them improving the firepower of a well organized Platoon. In my dreams:
Tanks that bring firepower, protected by infantry otherwise they die to HAs and Libs that take out tanks and strategic importand targets, protected by ASF. A few skyguards here and there and AA MAXes and this scenario could end up into a great battle that both sides will enjoy. This is the gameplay (well, parts of it) that I am looking for becouse only this organization will keep the game interesting for years. I want defenses that require teamwork to break, I want people to defend. At the moment we have zergs capping empty bases and only a battle if they meet somewhere on the map by accident...
Thank you for all your answers. And just for the records: I never cried about Libs, I just want to discuss how to improve game experience and I hope everybody agrees, that at the moment there is a lot "room for improvement".