A Lasher did 79% damage on me during a reload of my Scats. He had help from an NS-11A medic. Dead a little over the time it takes to reload - my own fault that I didn't charge away. 2 infantry vs a reloading Scat = dead Scat. Given reloads are audible up close, decent players should know when to come out from behind cover and shoot at a Scat.
I still disagree with the idea of straight nerfing the Scattercannon. The seemingly distorted relation in theoretical DPS is necessary when taking the other aspects of the weapon into account. That's where I'm sitting right now. But I don't have much else to say on the topic at the moment. So... It's been fun, but I'm bowing out for now. We should do this again sometime. (Perhaps I'll be in a more argumentative mood again tomorrow. Perhaps not.)
The Mercy fired on me as I moved past the door at the start of the clip and did 11% damage on me at that range. I say my 7 double Scat hits on him did about 11% damage on him.
Which validates my point, they would have tickled as well I still believe the scat's are better all around than the chainguns with how fast they kill infantry, and there the same range if not longer range than the others (Pending, the scatmax can adapt with slugs to be much further range tham the other MAX's, as well as being the best within ranges of the other max's) I dont want a NC Max Nerf, i just want everyone to have there own variant of this weapon, the NC can get there own varient of the chainguns, i would not be bothered one bit.
...and I'd switch to the chain guns immediately! I faded in front of the door at the start of that video, that was the only time he shot at me and did 11% damage. IIRC, I hit him twice at that range with my Dual Scats then hit him another 5 times as he moved behind the SCU at ~30 meters. Looking at his health marker, before and after the 5 Scat hits, it probably did around 11% damage. So at longer range with less hits, he did the same amount of damage on me than I did with the magic Scatters. The impression seems to be around here that he should have been dead or near death. I'm just trying to point out this misconception of the shotguns having some massive damage at longer ranges. They simply don't. The reload time makes short range engagement dicey at times unless you have support nearby. I use slugs exclusively in my Scats. They're more versatile, IMO. But don't get fooled into believing they turn the MAX into a long range demon. They're a semi-auto weapon with a random CoF. You cannot predict where the slugs will go and both slugs don't follow the same CoF. I've hit targets at 100m and dropped them in 3 double slugs and have had targets at 15 meters with the pipper dead center mass and missed every shot. An uncerted Dual Scat MAX is a vulnerable target spending more time reloading than firing with a short range. Is he going to melt an infantry at 15m? Sure! It'd take half his clip on both arms to do it. If he had 2 or 3 buddies with him, he's dead on the reload unless he can charge to escape.
So you killed 1-2 guys, reloaded, and 2 more guys managed to kill you because you had no backup. Like I said, wave after wave. If you had a second ScatMax with you it would have taken 8 guys to do that to you, because the first 4 through the door would have been dead and the next 4 might have been able to take you both down. If you had played it slightly smarter and retreated when they charged you could have survived, taken a doorway, and melted the two of them if they were dumb enough to follow. The only way an NC AI Max loses in CQC is to either be outnumbered at least 4:1 (not forgetting to add outnumbering the other Maxes and Infantry with you at the time) or to play stupidly overextending yourself or some combination of the two. The more AI Maxes the more ridiculously outnumbering the group has to be to get you. And I don't even have a problem with that, necessarily; my problem is that you drop other Maxes just as fast as you drop infantry; you drop them even faster than another Max in AV setup can get you. That means that the only counter to an NC AI Max is to ridiculously outnumber them, which was kind of my point when responding to someone suggesting that other Maxes shouldn't be the counter to an NC AI Max. If other Maxes aren't supposed to be the counter then what, outside of sheer numbers, is the counter to NC AI Maxes supposed to be? The usual answer is "Vehicles and Range" which only makes sense in outdoor combats - have you seen the maps we play in? Half of them are outdoor, so the ScatMaxes don't come out to play and the other half are largely or completely indoors, where Vehicles and Range is never a factor. So we're left with sheer numbers being the only way to counter them. And needing a 4:1 advantage to counter something is the virtual definition of OP.
Welcome to the life of a TR Max. If a TR Max faces 3 guys at 15m he takes 3 seconds to kill the first guy and is at 1/2 health. He takes 3 more seconds to kill the second guy and is at about 2 bars of health. He then dies to the third guy. If there are 4 guys they can probably drop the TR Max before the first body hits the floor. At 30 or 40m it's even worse because the infantry are 3x more accurate than the Max at or beyond those ranges. And there's nothing that a TR Max can cert that will improve those odds, other than maybe KE Armor. Extra Ammo doesn't help him (he probably doesn't run out fighting 3-4 guys in CQC) and he doesn't get special ammo that improves accuracy. The moral of the story is that no Max is invulnerable when outnumbered 4:1. The difference is that if 4 guys come up to a ScatMax one at a time the ScatMax will melt them each in turn and be down far more ammo than health. If 4 guys come at a TR Max one at a time the TR Max probably dies by the 4th guy because he takes so long to kill each one that they do serious damage in return.
Last movie I'll post. You'll probably get a laugh out of this one and I'm rarely in a MAX suit indoors - so many presumptions here. In my feeble defence, just come off night shift and had about an hours sleep before playing. Aim is a little off (well, except for the TK ) Had stalked an AV MAX back into his spawn room that was chewing up our armor, spotted a medic and missed the first shot even though the pipper was right on target. He unknowingly jinked perfectly putting off my aim and ended up TK'ing a friendly behind him. Annoyed that I TK'ed threw me a little, I would normally have found cover and reloaded at that point. Two rushed out of the spawn room and instead of charging away (which would have been the smart thing to do..) I just took hurried pot shots, missing the lot. Though, the first shot on the medic the pipper was on target again but missed.
Ya know, looking at that video something was bugging me a bit. So I went back and looked at a video I shot around the same time (Christmas time) where I achieved similar results. Then I went into the game to check it out and I think I know what it is - In that video it looks like he has no recoil at all, and in the one I posted I don't think I've got any recoil either. He fires at long range and stays perfectly level. However, testing in the game right now I'm pretty sure they added a not inconsiderable amount of recoil to the TR AI Max weapons (Mercy and default Cycler at least) sometime after the double XP event. I mean, seriously, go test it out. In that video the guy is pulling off perfectly level shooting while if you test out TR AI Max guns there's a very definite upward pull while firing now. In other words I'm pretty sure they nerfed TR AI Max accuracy by adding in upward recoil.
Can you trial two weapons at once? Combating vertical recoil is a piece of cake. Obviously you've not tried any of the NC HA weapons for any extended period of time where it's essential if you want to put more than 3 bullets on target. It comes natural after a few hours - unfortunately running a MAX suit 90% of the time, takes a few deaths to wake up the muscle memory to counter recoil again when I pick up an NC HA gun. Wish I could transfer the Carv over. If you're claiming the Mercy's accuracy has been nerfed, you appear to be the only one I've ever heard suggest it and it's contrary to what I've seen playing beside TR MAX as well as mostly playing against them. My posted video above where the guy did 11% of damage at 60m after seeing me move across a doorway - if I stood there for any length of time, he would have riddled me with holes and with uncerted Scatters, I wouldn't have been able to retaliate - with certed Scatters, I might have given a nearby Engineer a 20xp bonus after I was a smoking heap. I think I've heard a similar argument about NC MAX and CQC, just can't remember where..
Well, first video I see from a TR MAX, I would say it is efficient like a NC MAX. I am tempted to say it is more efficient than NC MAX, cause of range. He killed a couple of guys at 50m very easily at 0.30.
People keep going on about the range of the scat max but 90% of all max combat is done within 10 meters! Who the hell uses a max out in the open... you get picked off in seconds. The scat max is the most overpowered weapon in the game by a long shot. In fact its just INSANE how op it is. The amount of NC using them compared to TR and VS using their maxes answers this debate. IMO Shotguns on maxes just do not work in this game and it should be replaced all together.
I do - almost all of the time. I play with a platoon that like going out to pick fights in other enemy's territory. Not stuck camping inside a Bio Lab. If other MAX units are trying to engage me at 10m, they're doing it wrong - not me.
Maybe Trs dont know how to play their Maxxes. The video above is the proof that Mercys are almost the same efficiency at CQC as Hacksaws, and perform better at range. Ok, Hacksaws are better in CQC, but well, it is CQC weapons.
Not sure, but you can get a Mercy or another Cycler and pair it up with the default cycler. I didn't test the Onslaught or Mutilater, but the default Heavy Cycler and Mercy both appear to have vertical recoil now which I don't believe they had even a few weeks back. Not the accuracy, exactly, but it does appear that recoil was added which is going to decrease effective accuracy. And it's something I hadn't noticed until you posted the video, although I had noticed that I was having trouble keeping on target at range the last couple times I played a Max (I don't do it often, maybe every other day). You may say that Vertical recoil is easy, but when you're at range, trying to keep moving, and have no zoom or even sights I find it rather difficult to manage.
I think the left/right arms are considered different weapons. Even the names are slightly different IIRC.
This guys is right - 100 resources wasted with two rockets from a heavy. I run dual hacksaws, ext mags, and it is a beast.. but range is **** and one good heavy with corner to run behind makes a good battle for a max.... two+ good ( <-- key word here) heavy's can ruin a maxes day in a heart beat. Other maxes are not as good in doors + close range, but their lack if dps is made up via longer range, and makes them more viable in "not-so-close-range" situations ***people should be required to play all factions before they *****, or play the faction they are ******** about prior to their post... oh a perfect world***
