[Suggestion] The Gates Of Hell

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by strove, Apr 4, 2016.

  1. strove

    Are kept be a gate keeper vehicle weapon for the TR... Lets avoid this thread turning into another "NERF THIS" "THIS IS OP" fight. Lets be honest, its happened too many times before. That being said i am posting this because of the issues i have with the gatekeeper.

    Now i know i know, roll eyes here we go. But no, actually i like the concept and its damage output is actually pretty reasonable. As a weapon its not in a bad spot but it falls into a trap. This trap is the same trap the old PPA was in way back when, the old PPA was broken not because of its damage, lack of drop and large AoE but because of its ease of use (albeit the other stats helped a bunch) The PPA was a click and hold killer of hordes and that was the issue.
    The Gate Keeper is currently, in my opinion, in that same space right now by comparison to the other factions weapons at least. Both of the other equivalent weapons are tough to use over a range, needing to compensate for drop or rapid CoF spread. This means that to use these weapons properly you need knowledge of the vehicle and the weapon you are using, positioning and fire practice are needed to get full use out of them. This creates a high skill ceiling but also has created somewhat of a high skill floor too which could be a problem for newer players (but this isnt want this post is about so i wont go into too much more detail)

    The Gate Keeper is ludicrously easy to use, next to no drop and near enough pinpoint accurate. Enough splash to be capable of killing infantry this weapon is an obvious default for most players. Something needs to be tweaked along the line. Perhaps spread? Shorter mags? Im not sure what it needs to bring it inline with other weapons but it does need somthing.

    Personally i think the Vanus Aphelion is actually a decent example here. It actually has alot more potential damage than the gate keeper but make full use of it youll need to be in short to mid range and easing off the trigger to get the power shot.
    The NCs Mjolnir is also an interesting weapon though it suffers horribly from both heavy drop AND scatter on its four projectiles making its near impossible to use at anything but super short ranges. Honestly i find myself taking the enforcer or even the fury over this weapon

    As i say, im not sure what the solution is but i do think this latest range of vehicle weapons could use a quick glance over.

    • Up x 4
  2. Respawn

    Agreed, it's simply too easy to use.
    The recent 'nerf' did help tone it down a bit, and I am glad to see its not quite as prevalent on the battlefield anymore. In their place however, are usually Vulcans, and I cant really say thats any less annoying to deal with...
    I think giving the GK substantial drop and/or spread would help better balance it; requiring the user to either let of the trigger to reset the bloom, and/or learn to compensate for drop (enforcer ;_; ) to make it less effective at long range.
  3. XanIves

    I personally prefer having vulcan harrasers killing my sunderers, than gatekeeper harrassers. Mostly because a gatekeeper sitting on a hill 500 meters out can't drive over the metric shtton of tank mines I have waiting for them.

    Note: I am factionally biased, as I have never used a GK or vulcan, merely died to them. This post is not meant to be taken seriously by anyone, ever.
  4. thed1rt

    Gates of Hell:

    Is giant war-test that all 3 factions agree to. 50 people from each side queue up.

    Then they wait behind 3 GIANT gates.

    The gates lift up and they all fight, everyone rushes eachother.

    The Gates of Hell are surrounded by a huge dome shield that noone can enter.

    There can also be a big giant tazer mechanical arm that slowly pushes people out of the gates or they die, until they all meet in a tiny little circle. (big scary electric bolts that insta-kill players so it forces them to push forward)
    • Up x 1
  5. The Rogue Wolf

    Am I the only one who read this title and thought "someone's complaining about Subterranian Nanite Analysis"?

    (Never used the Gatekeeper myself, have had a vehicle or two perforated by them; I'd like them to have tracers- they don't have those, do they?)

    Will the sound of sizzling flesh drown out the cries of snipers screaming "But muh KDR!"?
    • Up x 1
  6. strove

    I think i may have thought of a solution that may help. Projectile velocity drop. If the missiles travel slower it impacts the play in three ways.
    1. The user must now lead shots ALOT if their target is moving at speed OR get closer to the target (think dumbfire missiles)
    2. The target now has somthing to do to help themselves, either pick up speed or zigzag to avoid shots at range.
    3. The slower moving missiles should now be able to be seen mid air so opposing player should be able to tell where they are coming from.

    I dont know how this would work in practicality but i like to think it would work to bring it in line with the other weapons.
  7. PatateMystere

    First that weapon needs to have tracer rounds so you can see fromm where you are being hit.
    Second, it need a proper damage sound when you are hit with that.

    In a vehicule you can loose a lot of HP before even notice that you are being hit. no sound, nothing... and i'm not talking about find who is shooting you.
  8. Pelojian

    GK does have tracers, bright red ones not seeing them when being hit by them is a long standing render bug which happens with the saron too.
  9. PatateMystere

    I know, and as you said, it's a bug. Bug that get you killed. It need to be fixed.
  10. TheSunlikeOne

    Gatekeeper, Mjolnir, Apheleon shouldn't have been added into the game in the first place. And here is why: Every EST already had ES AV weapon (there was no separation between long/short range) with their upsides and downsides.
    Vanguard only had Enforcer with heavy projectile drop. Effective at short-med range, because of it's drawback.
    Magrider only had Saron with huge bloom. Effective at short-med gange. Usable at longer ranges, but the platform on which it is installed is more fragile, than Vanguard.
    Prowler only had Vulcan. Effective at shorter ranges, but the platform on which it is installed has superior main cannon.

    Now it is messed up:
    Prowler has superior main and secondary cannons (seriously, where is TR's empire-specific trait - long reloads?). And NC/VS Vehicles don't live long with no chance to retaliate, so TR infantry gets benefits from that too.

    The solution is to stop pretending, that Enforcer and Saron are LONG range AV weapons, and introduce:
    Railjack-like secondary AV for Vanguard (yep, that one on Mjolnir's placeholder image). Mag size of one, long reload, fire delay, no splash, huge damage, little-to-none ammo drop.
    Lancer/Vortex-like secondary AV for Maggie. Low-ish damage, chargable, no ammo drop.
  11. Slandebande

    Well, first of all I feel there is a lot of animosity towards the GK for the same reasons there is animosity towards the Prowler, people don't know how to counter-play against such weapons. There are a number of ways to exploit the inherent weakness' of the GK. I'll list a few below:
    • The GK relies on a steady stream of fire being unloaded towards the target. Find ways to break this steady stream of fire, and your advantage soars. A good example is utilizing cover between Halberd reloads.
    • The GK has very poor DPS compared to similar weapons, so take advantage of that. The GK's advantage lies in increased ranged capabilities (although not as much for the Harasser). Close the range gap and utilize Saron/Aphelions (or just the Halberds) superior DPS.
    • Simply out-repair the damage it deals and reset the fight. It deals quite low DPS, so assuming 2 Engineers you should be able to practically outrepair the damage even in a Harasser. If you are using tanks, 1 Engineer is almost enough to fully out-repair ALL the damage it deals.
    • Low Alpha means less of a surprise/"Oh ****" factor
    • The low damage per shot makes it harder to fully exploit mistakes made by the enemy, like them showing their weaker armor for a brief moment.
    Now that that has been said, I'm of course not against changing the GK. Note, I'm saying changing, not nerfing, as I don't think the issue with the weapon is that it is too strong, at least in an experienced gunners hands. The weapon is too easy to use for inexperienced gunners though, at least compared to the similar weapons, and therefore I agree that it should be made harder to use. If it is nerfed I can almost guarantee that not many of the top crews will be using the weapon for anything other than trolling or taking rookie gunners for a spin.

    I think changing the GK can be done in several ways, with different outcomes. I, for one, wouldn't like if it got the "Harasser" treatment that the GK-H did, as that would make it pretty unviable for the Prowler, even in skilled hands. Keep in mind that the Prowler received the GK in order to provide it with a long-range ES option.
    Giving it recoil (in combination with the current bloom), renders it useless at long ranges regardless of skill, and invalidates the entire concept of the weapon. Over shorter ranges, other weapons are simply much more effective and should always be preferred (for obvious reasons). In short, with increased recoil:
    • It would be less effective in the hands of the average Joe (which is a good thing).
    • It would be like a lesser version of the Saron (since it cannot keep sustained fire over long range) whilst not having the CQC option for closer range.
    • It won't ever be a viable weapon for skilled gunners due to the other options being far superior (Halberd trumps it pretty much in every situation, even with the CURRENT version of the GK, assuming a skilled gunner). Increasing recoil would just make it more unreliable.
    I would prefer if the weapon wasn't nerfed per se (I don't use it at all myself, since I find other weapons far superior in experienced hands, but one of my gunners recently wanted to try it so I have it purchased :p ), but rather made harder to use. I would reduce the projectile speed slightly and give the projectile increased drop which would make it harder to use. Perhaps lower RPM slightly but increase damage a bit to compensate.
    Reducing the projectile speed, increasing drop (and perhaps tweaking the rounds / minute - damage / shot ratio) would have the following outcomes:
    • It would be less effective in the hands of the average Joe (which is a good thing).
    • It would be a different weapon than the alternatives we currently have
    • It would reward skill as it would still be pretty accurate over range if you are good enough to account for drop/lead like with any other weapon
    • It would still retain its long-range niche compared to say the Halberd.
    Also, the missing tracers (which by far isn't only relevant for the GK, but for many other weapons as well) should be fixed. I still despise being hit by something like rocketpods and it either sounds exactly like a nosegun plinking away at me, or I get no sound at all.

    Just to clarify, the issue/bug has nothing to do with the GK itself, but rather practically every similar weapon being fired over long range. I've had the issue with Rocket Pods fired by ESFs from long-range as well for example. Not that I don't think it should be fixed, just wanted to clarify it has nothing to do with the GK.
  12. Jawarisin

    I can't believe I'm actually reading this on this forum.
  13. asmodraxus

    • The GK has very poor DPS compared to similar weapons, so take advantage of that. The GK's advantage lies in increased ranged capabilities (although not as much for the Harasser). Close the range gap and utilize Saron/Aphelions (or just the Halberds) superior DPS.
    GK's dps at 500m is only slightly lower then a Saron's at point blank range mag dumping. The Gatekeepers effective dps is the HIGHEST due to the lack of CoF or drop issues, coupled with the Prowlers 120mm means the other tanks melt away or are forced to stealth gank.

    Deal with it $_$