The correct way to balance/nerf the Heavy Assualt Sheild

Discussion in 'Heavy Assault' started by Huggzsbunny, Sep 7, 2014.

  1. Akashar

    1) No, HA would not have them all the time, because of moving penalty. Plus shield doesn't recharge while working.

    2) Works, because even with a long ramp up time (2 secs) the shield stays a viable option when being used actively, and without movement penalty you compensate the lack of duration and initial cost.

    Fixed ;)
  2. Xasapis

    2 seconds ramp up time? When the TTK is measured in fractions of a second? You might as well not use it at all or just use resist.
  3. Goretzu

    I'm pretty sure they would if there was no duratation limit, if there was a duration limit then it may well work, but this is how they need to redesign the NMG and Ad shield to be functionally competitive with the Resist shield with all 3 being proactive shields (and not reactive shields).


    The Resist shield would still just be the better option in that case, certainly than the NWG I think, although it may have some viablity with the Ad shield because of its capability to recharge itself.
  4. Akashar

    I don't really understand all the fuss about resist shield, it's good, but ad shield is really awesome IMO, both have their use. And furthermore, resist shield is already proactive.
  5. Goretzu

    That's the point though.


    Currently:
    The Resist Shield is good proactive and fairly bad reactive.
    The Adrenaline Shield is fairly bad proactive (although better if you get kills) and good reactive.
    The NWG Shield is fairly bad proactive and good reactive.

    Now if you make the NWG & Ad shields bad reactively (by adding a wind-up or delay) without making them good proactively the Resist Shield becomes the only sensible/viable choice.

    i.e.:
    Res = good proactive & bad reactive
    Ad = bad proactive & bad reactive
    NWG = bad proactive & bad reactive

    Only the Resist Shield is a sensible choice as all are bad reactively, but the Resist Sheild is good when use proactively.


    Which makes little sense from a game balance point of view a player point of view or a developer point of view.
    • Up x 1
  6. Akashar

    That's why I add positives changes with the ramp up time, as a suppression of initial cost and limited time in one example, or suppression of movement penalty in the other. If you take a second to think of it, both ideas are making AD and NMG good proactively. Don't you think?
  7. Akashar

    Of course these positives changes would not affect resist shield, as you say, it is already more or less in the state the devs want it.
  8. Goretzu


    I do think (after thinking about it) that the lack of movement penalty might well work quite well with the Adrenaline Shield - I wonder if it might not work too well though. :D

    I'm not so sure about the NWG though, I think probably the only way to make that work is to have it as a copy of the Resist Shield (or very similar with fixed duration but ramp up time and maybe a very small drop off with time) only taking a fixed amount of damage rather than a % of damage.
  9. Atenson

    The "InstaWin" shield is only OP when you are not a heavy. If you keep getting rolled on by a heavy, pull a heavy & see how GOD mode you actually get. If successful, guess you should start playing a heavy.

    Looking at 1v1 comparisons of kill times across classes is useless. There are too many factors. Skill level, equipment selection, FPS, Ping would have to be constant to accurately ***** a class to class balance. Not to mention the other non-quantitative factors like the shield is visible through smoke & makes you unable to sprint.
  10. SharkSpider

    The shield just isn't OP. I don't have any problem killing HAs with other classes, even if I'm running a 652 RPM assault rifle. Almost every fight that occurs in planetside involves one player starting to shoot first, and when it only takes me 3 or 4 bullets to zero out the shield I'm not exactly crippled by it. If it's adrenaline/NMG then any encounter where I can break LOS for a while basically negates the shield, and if it's resist I either get a few shots off before they pop it or the slow corner clearing lets me get out of there.

    The only time it really hampers a player who knows how to shoot is in a trade situation (ie. both parties are aware of eachother and clearing some kind of obstacle at walk or ADS speed) in which case weapon RPM and class selection are fair game for advantages, or it's when I get greedy and try to score a kill by going full auto at someone I've only got a weak chance at. The only times I've ever lost to the "turn around and shield" was when I started with a half mag or needlessly wasted bullets spraying at range.

    Competent players on live server don't usually die to the person they were shooting at, the game's just too big. HA will get you a higher KDR but mostly because the shield lets you get away with the lower RPM weapons (and thus make use of the higher mag size) and going in to engagements right after taking damage.

    On the competitive side of things HA is balanced because the ideal squad composition doesn't have everyone using it. Start eroding the usefulness of the shield and they become AV specialists instead of a decent all around class.
  11. DHT#

    So when everyone is playing HA, what then? I go to HA, my k/d ratio jumps up by 2. Because I still do all the flanking and sneaky play I do as non-HA classes, but I also have the i-win shield. And I also have a crap load of tools, and I can do things to vehicles without being within hugging range.
  12. Huggzsbunny

    I don't think we've even seen the head shot multiplier implemented on the test server yet so I think its a bit unfair to already conclude what would happen if the head shot multiplier was increased by 25%. I think it would be a good idea to help reward players for accuracy but also keep the Heavy Assault's ability effective.

    SOE have been talking about rebalancing Heavy Assault shields for quite sometime. So I think the multiplier idea would be a good choice and since it's only directed towards one thing and that is to reward accurate players a little more extra damage if they aim for the head. I'd MUCH rather have it over the much suggested delay mechanics, health nerfs, speed reductions, etc.

    Heavy Assualts are probably the first class I'd touch in terms of their effectiveness towards everything. I'd probably leave Medic suggestions alone since the main balance problem with the Medic is the capability of reviving fallen teammates faster than you can even reload your weapon after you killed the guy he is reviving. It's way worse in Battlefield, It's still pretty unbalanced though. A quick revive function in any FPS game is usually just unbalanced and screws up a lot of the reason not to be the person that can revive people in terms of competitive play.

    Second class I'd touch is definitely the Light Assault due to just the limited role Light Assaults provide. You could have a whole squad without a Light Assault and nothing would really change other than better beacon placements, so there really needs to be some new stuff to make the LA a more reliable class other than just mostly a "solo *****". You'd be better off supporting your team by playing Heavy Assault or Infiltrator rather than a Light Assault. It's sad that its gonna take 2 years for SOE to finally rebalance one class that is very ineffective at being a real team player. If they actually do it well that is...
  13. Ronin Oni

    .....

    Turret or spamming smoke w/ IRNV are both 2 combat killing potentials Engie has that LA doesn't.
  14. Kozlovsky

    Every single one of these imbecilic heavy nerf threads are started and then reinforced by utter ****ters with no game sense at all, below average skill and when you check out their stats, pathetic SPM's and awful k/d ratios.

    This game already caters to the lowest denominator enough, how about you actually try to improve as a player rather than cry about your insufficient skill.

    Infils crying about losing 1v1s with a HA in a straight up fight... give me a break...

    This game isn't a 1v1 friendly arena, get over yourself, this game doesn't revolve around you, no matter how desperately you think it does.

    If you are going head long into a heavy as an engineer you're doing it wrong. If you are not sneaking up on a heavy as an infiltrator you're are doing it wrong. It you are not using your mobility to get an advantage on a heavy as a LA you're doing it wrong. If you are not accurate as a medic or reviving friendly heavies you're doing it wrong.

    Before anyone cries with the stupid line "but I did all these things and the HA still killed me!1!1", I'm very sorry (not really, thanks for the easy farm), but the problem lies with you. Take some time and actually put in some effort yourself; improve your accuracy, improve your head shot ratio. You are just going to wallow in mediocrity forever if you are not willing to improve yourself and rather want everything to cater to your needs. The amount of times I have dropped HA's as infil (flanking them), as LA (getting the high ground above them, shotgun LA), as medic (highest TTK weapons in the game, easy to be accurate with), as engi (great CQC weapons, turret, stickies) before they have even been able to react and engage their shield is countless.

    People just need to realise that they are awful and that they are nothing but farm for better players.

    Stay rekt.
    • Up x 1
  15. emjayz


    PROTIP: HA has never, ever, at any point, been called--by the developers-- the 1v1 class. Never. Not once. You are *not* supposed to be the ultimate 1 on 1 fighter, no matter how much you may disagree. You. are. not. Of course the inflated egos here will disagree.

    1v1 autowin classes just create situations where they become the only class played. But it takes little to see that whenever I play HA and suddenly find myself much more "skilled" than before. Combined arms? HA is every arm, and I can heal myself to boot. Double the TTK on someone playing HA and in comes the talk about improving and mediocrity and such, rich stuff. If *I* die as a HA, it is because *I* made a mistake, and that has been clear to me since I started playing it again. Otherwise, I'm more or less a one man army held back only by lack of 750 rpm guns.

    Anyone can feel free to disagree, and I expect many to because the allure of being so skillz0rz with everything rolled into your favorite class--you know, the one thats your fav because you magically seem to do better with it--is tempting. But at the end of the day, youre playing the Halo campaign on rookie and acting like you never died on legendary. You aren't a good player, youre one with enough cognitive dissonance to fill a room
    • Up x 1
  16. Kozlovsky



    This game isn't a 1v1 game.. so it doesn't even matter...

    So when you die against a non HA in a straight up fight when you have full shields you're saying you made a mistake? top kek, you just got outplayed/outskilled.

    Learn to headshot noobs. Body shotting shielded heavies aint' gonna get you anywhere.
  17. DatVanuMan

    Filthy non-HA peasants. When shall they ever learn:rolleyes:
    But hey, if they DO delay the shields FOR MORE shielding, I'd do it. It depends on how good the shielding becomes. For example, back in Alpha, the Heavy had a 0.75-1.25 second delay for his shield, and he could take as much damage as a MAX for as long as the shield was activated. I WANT TO BE THE I WIN CLASS:p
  18. emjayz

    because you arent supposed to automatically win a straight up fight. its never been stated, told, or even implied--'heavy' does not mean 'i win all the things in planetside 2' and im unsure where that came from. show me where you are supposed to, show me something, and not just some BS "well its obvious duhhh" comment, because if it was obvious you'd be able to prove it very easily.
    oh, and i wasnt aware HA couldnt headshot people either.

    show me something proving youre right here, please, because a comment like "top kek" leads me to believe youre another wannabe MLGstar type who needs his massive crutches to own the noobs here in planetside because youd be unable to get anywhere in CS:GO.
  19. Botji

    HAs doesnt automatically win a straight up fight, you dont lose automatically in a straight up fight against HAs... not much else to say is there?
  20. Atenson


    Lets be honest, the people whining about the HA shield being OP are crying for a straight NERF not a "Balance". If SOE changed the shields back to the activation delay w/ increased damage absorption, the players sensible enough to use flanking & situational or equipment advantages would simply pre-emp the shields & continue to murder softies along w/ all of their friends w/ the shields increased damage obsorbtion.

    Kozlovsky's post may grind some peoples gears but his points are valid. Everyone can afford to work on their accuracy especially in regards at sinking headshots. I am certainly No-Pro but I rarely lose to a HA 1v1 unless we see each other at the exact same moment or my aim is garbage. In both of those scenarios the HA should win in my opinion.