The casual-friendly approach to squads and platoons is teaching players to be idiots.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Frostiken, Jul 1, 2014.

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  1. JesNC

    BCP ran a zergfit of fanbois who were allured by his ability to talk **** as far as I can remember. They followed him because they liked his sense of "humour" and not because he punished them ingame whenever they did something wrong.

    If you can't motivate people to do what you say without forcing them you're simply not a leader.
    • Up x 4
  2. Huxer

    I'm sorry you feel this way. I spent quite enough years being totally subjected to the orders of the officers appointed over me. I think I'd rather play a shoot 'em up arcade game like planetside to relive my younger years as an infantry soldier. Admittedly I don't care for people telling me what to do since I consider every player in this game to have less combat experience and training than I do and I'm not really excited about training new soldiers, I spent far to many years doing that already. In my experience I expect my fellow experienced soldiers to do what they're supposed to do and I expect the younger soldiers to...die. If you made me listen to some wet behind the ears ROTC lieutenant like the OP I would probably never join another random platoon again.
  3. BuckRaven

    Very true, there's only one problem with that statement; This isn't West Point and this isn't the military nor is it a company/work with specific work duties.

    ..and what's the consequence of not doing as you're told by some pimple-faced kid who thinks he's the king of the world..?

    Oh, right, nothing and there shouldn't be any consequence for it either because, believe it or not, people play this game for fun, not for profit (with reservation for any leveling sweatshop employee who might or might not be reading this).

    Nope, but punishing them teaches them even less.
  4. Konfuzfanten

    lol, i can tell you havnt been in the army. The old "yell and curse at ppl until they do what i want" kind of leadership died in the 1990ies in most armies. Nowadays, officers/commanders work damn hard to earn their soldiers respect.

    If you cant get ppl to follow you be means of example you are not fit to lead.
    • Up x 2
  5. BuckRaven

    Snipped out the good parts.

    A good leader is someone who you respect and follow because he makes the right calls.

    • Up x 1
  6. RIctavius

    Dude we got a guy for that X3 aha
    • Up x 1
  7. RIctavius

    In the British army there is a system that the NCOs and the Sergeant Majors berate the troopers... the officers purely convey the orders clearly and calmly.

    Planetsides needs a place to put second in commands in squad/platoons.
  8. Dinapuff

    There is no reason for you to deal with pubbie players if you don't want to, and there is a place were you can get most of what you want without waiting for SOE to do it for you. It's called joining an outfit. Find one that matches what you consider ideal. There is bound to be at least one remotely similar to what you want.
    • Up x 4
  9. Rogueghost

    Zergfits exist to be farmed, everyone can agree on that, but whether or not TE was the most effective PS2 outfit is highly debatable.
  10. DQCraze

    You have serious control issues. You have made it clear that you are dangerous to yourself and others. You are not leadership material and have no business leading anything. You dont know how to motivate people, i lead public platoons exclusively and i can assure you i can get people to work together without fear mongering.
    • Up x 2
  11. FieldMarshall

    Why is this even an issue? If you fill your platoon with random zerglings then you get exactly what you asked for.

    Sounds like you want people to do what you tell them to, except you dont want any of the responsibilities or good qualities that you need to be able to lead.
  12. pnkdth

    Well, the day has come, the elitist "you have to have a gear score over 9000!!!!!!"-crowd has arrived to planetside 2.

    Also, OP, welcome to leadership. It is very tough to find good leaders, which is one of the reasons they tend to get really good pay in real life. The hallmarks of a good leader is his or her ability to get the best of the team. The method you're prescribing to here is called "management of fear." It tend to make people burn out or put undue stress on your team members because rather than anticipating a pat on the back for a job well done, they fear the lash, so to speak, more. The negative effect of this is that it creates an environment where your curb creativity and preventing people from taking initiative. The only way to make this work is if you actually pay people, usually attaching bonuses for exceptional work, and guess what? PS2 is not a job, players do not get paid.

    What you want to do, OP, is to create an outfit with players who share the same goals as you. Players who want to function as a single unit. I am sure there are others who prefer this hardline method of playing, and get enjoyment from it. You would need to find these people. There is no other way, and, more than likely, you would have to prove to them that you are a good leader. This also implies a certain level of trust, which is why I suggest creating or joining an outfit of similar needs, since you simply won't find this level of trust in a platoon or randomly invited players.

    Easing up a bit, and try to read your squad/platoon, also helps a great deal. You can also just kick X or Y player from the platoon if they aren't going with the rest. I seriously doubt that player will care anyway, but do not delude yourself into thinking your "ORDERS" will be followed to the letter in a public platoon. Once again, you'll need to be in a properly motivated outfit for that.
    • Up x 1
  13. Cyridius

    I love people calling this guy out for being on a power trip or as a "dictator".

    He's a f*cking squad leader in the military and wants people to follow his orders, usually THE WHOLE ENTIRE POINT of joining a squad is to PLAY AS A SQUAD. If people are not doing that there should absolutely be a punishment system that is not simply a kick from the platoon.

    Kicking someone from the platoon does not help them be a good squad member, it just kicks them from the platoon so they can rejoin or join someone else's crappy squad.

    So yes, OP is absolutely right that the absolute absence of squad features is not helping new people into this game at all. And you know what? Someone on a power trip? Leave his squad.

    So you people need to get your heads on straight and deal with the issues that OP is expressing here instead of not contributing to the discussion, being snarky and moronic, and having zero perspective.

    Yeah it's great to be able to talk sh*t about someone when you don't even play on the same server. Your "memory" is bad. Bad, bad, bad, some would even say.

    Having the third or fourth largest outfit in the game that had the highest metric in kills, kills per minute, score per minute, base defenses and base captures than any other outfit in the entire game, makes them a whole lot better than a "zergfit".

    This isn't real life, the whole reason you're able to "motivate" or "encourage" people in real life is because they fear the consequences of inaction. This is a game, there are no consequences of inaction.

    And if people want to play for fun nobody is forcing you to join his damn squad. How is this such a difficult concept for you people? Squads are optional. You don't like how he runs his squad? Leave. And you know what? It's not just sh*t for the squad leader when people aren't following directions(Like they're supposed to in a squad which is supposed to reflect military command structure, but hey f*ck logic), it also screws over the rest of the squad that wants to play the objective seriously.

    And where do you get the idea that punishment teaches people nothing? Have you never, ever played a difficult game in your life? Sounds like it. Because hard games punish you and you learn.

    To the people I've responded to, you are the people everyone complains about. Zergs? That's you. Zergfits like AOD or TAS? That's you. Disorganized deathmatch fights instead of strategic play? That's you. All the things Planetside veterans are complaining about? They're complaining about people like you, who, for some reason think it's OK to join someone's squad(An optional thing to do) and then tell him he can't run it the way he wants to run it and that he's a bad player or an a-hole for doing so.

    Firstly, you have no right to tell him or anyone else how to run their squads.

    Secondly, you're totally contradicting to point of a squad.

    Thirdly, you're going against well established documentation of human behaviour.

    Fourthly, none of you have actually contributed anything to this discussion about why we shouldn't have any more squad features.

    So, just to make it clear to you all, you guys suck. Both at being smug, superior a-holes on Forumside and at being a Squad Member in PlanetSide.
    • Up x 1
  14. Thrasis

    What I read is that somebody is very unhappy that the summer kids have arrived. My strong suggestion is just sit out until Labor Day. He'll be much happier doing that than dealing with the FPS-ers who are only playing until the next FPS comes out.
  15. libbmaster

    You know, I would like to select a "suggested" set of load outs for a squad, if only because getting a pub squad to pull a nice 3 Medic, 3 engi, 6 HA build over the mic is and always will be impossible.

    But then OP started talking about "punishments" and "overriding redeploy" functions, and I got scared.
  16. Tbone

    Mr. sadism you do realize that this is a game.Everybody plays it as they want, and you don't have the right to tell how should everybody do it .If you want lashing and kicking Mr. masochist go play with your precious BCP.
  17. Frostiken

    What a complete load of ****. This has nothing to do with yelling and cursing. The only thing I can currently do is yell and curse.

    People follow orders in the military not because they were asked nicely, but because if you don't you're going to be slapped with reprimands, get **** performance ratings, tank your chances for promotion, and possibly be slapped with an Article 15.
  18. Frostiken

    If you want to play how you want then don't join a squad, or find a squad full of other likeminded spineless, brainless inept losers, how upon being told to go to warpgate and get in the galaxy instead decide to redeploy three minutes after the fact and then decide they're too good for the galaxy plan and instead get an ESF.

    If you're upset because your squad leader turned off ESF purchasing power, then LEAVE THE SQUAD. If you were told to get in the galaxy and don't think you should have to, WHY ARE YOU IN A SQUAD TO BEGIN WITH?

    Unbelievable that you people think you should be able to join a squad and do whatever you want.
  19. Tbone

    So somebody is a loser cause they don't play like you want loser.Well no comment.

    Second thing i am a team player myself if the want me to jump i ask how high but i don't want to tell others how to play.If they don't come F it i'll go with those who follow.Play with your friends ,if you have any, and problem solved.
  20. Razzyman

    Interesting, while I have experienced some of the issues Frostiken has described, particularly when I was newer to leading, and when squads are first formed, I have also found a solution that works quite well for me. Patience, and solid leadership. I know how frustrating it can be Frost, I've banged my head against the wall trying to get large groups of players to do what I want them to, or what I need them to to win a battle. I've tried the hard line approach as well, and to be honest, it never worked as well as being a firm, but not raging leader. The hard line approach usually just got me made fun of for being a try hard, or an arm chair general, folks in the thread are right, it's just a game, we're not enlisted men or commissioned officers, we're not being paid, and we're certainly not here for causes as serious as real war, with real consequences. At worst a continent gets locked and we can't play on Indar or Hossin for a while, not world ending, ya know? :)

    I found after trial and error of leading that communication and solid squad leaders are key. Using way points regularly, dropping squad beacons regularly, encouraging balanced squad compositions (not demanding), good Sunderer placement, rallying as many squad mates up for pushes and keeping a level head during a fight will eventually bring most of your squad or platoon in line. As people see you make good decisions, and have success they'll begin to fall in line, some times it takes a few bases, but generally it works out for me and my squad leaders. Many many players in this game have been burned by some seriously derpy squad leaders, I was a wreck when I started, give them some good reasons to follow you and many will. Yes, you'll still get the lowbies who don't know what to do (did you know what an SCU was your first day) and you'll still get that guy who thinks music is more important than hearing the SL or PL's orders, but that's the nature of open squads, I've never been able to eliminate it completely in every open squad. But hey, that's what private squads are for. In the end, from the experience of someone who leads squads a lot, I guess I'm saying I've been able to attract more flies with honey than vinegar. Might be worth a shot for ya, took me a while to figure it out and I wish I had known it sooner, I hope it can work for you. :)
    • Up x 1
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