The Absurdity of Forced Population Balance

I am still left in limbo over whether Daybreak is trying to keep the game alive or actively trying to kill it. With weapon imbalance issues that remain for months to anti-newbie friendly policies (they hate players training other players in live, claim it's 'stat padding'), they don't play their own game, and if they do, they sure as hell don't care about it.

Take the latest attempt by Daybreak to force players to play 'fair'. In an attempt to create a level playing field through player numbers alone, DB decided that it is in everybody's interest that all continents must have 33/33/33 population no matter what. As a result, this type of scenario frequently occurs.

Scenario 1: NC Platoon Lead sees a continent with this type of pop.


The Platoon Leader calls for his platoon to redeploy to that continent to fight the TR. Suddenly, half the platoon is stuck in a queue for the continent. The PL looks at the pop and this is what he sees.



What happened? The continent has only one rampaging TR platoon running amuck so it's not full. Under the old system, the NC platoon would've been able to just switch continents, so long as there is space available for those players. With this new system, it demands that all pops are even at all costs, even to the cost of the player's experience.

Because the Vanu aren't redeploying to the continent, the game believes this is unfair, and will force the NC players to wait until more VS decide, eventually, maybe, to go to the continent.

With this new system, unless two factions decide to relocate to a continent at the same time, waiting times are imminent.

Scenario 2:

Player A and player B are friends. They want to play together. They log in and are thrown in different continents. One tries to relocate and finds a queue. The other relocates and also finds a queue. One or both eventually quit out of frustration of being unable to play together.

This system has got to go! It is an asinine system creating stupid waiting times and prevents platoons from playing together.

Definitely needs some work but way better than before in my opinion.

As for people playing together I never had to wait more than about 10 min to get into another continent and feels much less if your busy in current continent until the queue is up.

easy fix for this scenario, allow middle pop faction to exceed the 10% rule until they hit high pop faction's numbers

also, second graph is way off, 39-42 and bar are hugely different. makes it looks like 32-42 or worse

Today on Hossin (Cobalt). Vanu 24% pop but owning 44 % territory. To counter it the other factions need more players because the overpop is from low br players. But they cant spawn on Hossin because of this new queue system so they are forced to wait in VR.

The system is wonky. They say it works one way. But then they forget to mention the system has to account for members as well. Members get priority which causes the system to work logically in a different way then intended.

For example, if everyone in the NC platoon in the first example was a member, they'd get in with only a few seconds wait. Sure we get queues, but its pressing K and pressing Warp that takes a few seconds. We go to the front of the line.

What septus says makes sense. The system shouldn't balance all three factions. Only the highest should be limited. No limits for the other two.

Additionally.. players should ALWAYS be able to play. So allow 3 continents to be unlocked. Two of them have the balancing mechanic with the third being unlimited. If that means we need a 5th continent.. well get to it.

THE PHX GUY IS COMPLAINING ABOUT OVERPOPS.


The joke writes itself.

I have been enjoying the ~33/33/33 so far. But I have run into the issue of (1) failure to get higher pops on a Continent. And I can appreciate the new system could be a killer to (2) F2P players (including new players who are getting their first impression, and vets who have support the game and now feel shut out). A problem for (3) larger groups (especially like Outfits/Platoons) trying to switch Continents with a large number of players, only to find the bottleneck a wall. And it just (4) puts an end to the old feeling of being able to go almost anywhere at any time unless the Continent was full.

The new Population Balance System is a very basic and fairly narrow filter. There are ways it could be modified, there are many ways it could be augmented with *different* Population Balance influencing changes to the game (things that can help keep the balance, but also mitigate some of the current drawbacks: like NS Mercs/Black Ops), and either new or existing playzones (or during certain time windows) could be setup/flagged to suspend the Balance Cap system to allow groups to jump on a Continent under the old free-for-all system (especially F2P extras who are currently being exiled in VR to wait it out),

It's enough that we're seeing many posts on these forums by people who are experiencing problems with the new system. We should take a tally of what the consistent problems faced are, then find ways to give them an out to address that problem. Players that hit major problem walls and can find no out... and get the sense that things will not be changed to help hem address their problem, are Players with one foot out the door. That's not good.

I don't see how NC players can't get onto a Continent that is TR Overpop, unless the total population is still very small and the Population Balance System has not kicked in yet (<50 players in most cases). Or the PBS has just hit critical mass and kicked in, and these were the pops right when it hit cap.

I posted before the idea of making an alternate rule of Top Faction cannot be more than 5% of 2nd Faction. Putting this into effect *before* the PBS system kicks in, and removing it onces PBS system triggered would keep any Faction from creating an tiny pop Overpop when pops are below the PBS system limit.

I think this affects players trying to play in large groups together more so than soloers or small groups. It also affects players who are mono-Faction more than those who play multiple Factions. And it affects F2P players more than it affects Members.

I'm all for making the play experience better for Players who play in play in big groups, F2P Players, and Play who don't have Characters in multiple Factions. But I don't really want to go back to uneven Pop to do so.

This only really is an issue if:
1) either player is F2P
2) both players don't have Characters on multiple Factions

As I posted elsewhere:

I think the PS2 business model is as follows:
1) pay for Membership, and get (fairly quick) access to the game you want, or
2) play for "free", and you become one of the bodies needed in the game to keep the world populated and keep #1 entertained/engaged (you are like a mob in a PvE MMO)

If you are finding yourself unable to get into the game, and you are not #1, then chances are you are not currently needed in order to populate the world and keep #1 entertained. In fact, the idea is that if you were to be allowed to play (and overweight your Faction's population), you would be upsetting the population balance and detracting from keeping #1 entertained/engaged.

If you are finding yourself unable to get into the game (within a short period of time), and you *are* #1, then that is a problem. You are paying to have access to the game, and it should be changed to give you better access.[/quote][/quote]

Shtty artificial pop balance is shtty

I am and always have been a paying player on both platforms.

Overhauling vs camp aesthetics and all round gay bar appeal would balance things better than this. Same with nc's trampy lego man appeal.

This just punishes player choice at best and favours the minority. It's imbalanced by player choice.

Op

Part of me thinks they are kind of trying to tank the game by getting folks to leave. If folks leave they can shutter the servers without worrying about lawsuits over accounts. If they just shut it down, folks that pay would have a legit gripe. It's hard to believe the game is profit making by now, must just be a ton of overhead with lil roi

Defo not with all the current activity and updates.

Devs will either be contracted by dbg or officially employed by dbg. It wouldn't make sense at all from a business standpoint.

I'm all ears thoygh.

Well, if one faction is constantly underpopulated, it'll give incentives for people to play it. This can help establish a less...toxic... air between the factions if one knows where the other is coming from. An artificial pop balance will also help motivate people to use 100% of their pop and help new players get started in the game instead of sending them on zerg rushes (which is still annoying and unfun for the defending team).

The pop balance only happens if there are more than 150 people on a single map, so if one pair of friends wants to play then they can simply go to a map where there isn't as much pop, if their faction consistently has more pop on all maps then there is something wrong with the game and that's what the regulated pop is trying to accomplish.

I'll admit, it IS unfun trying to move a squad over to an alert map when it's full, I've been in those 73 man ques, there is a problem with the notification not popping up and I would like that addressed, however the system is fine as it is and helps keep the playing fields even.

Yes, complaining about the inability to redeploy to fight an overpop from one faction is truly a joke worthy of an oscar.

The issue in this case is that the system takes into account the number of Vanu players on that continent. It doesn't care if it will end up with two factions having an even population and fighting each other. It only cares if it can force the continent into a three-way battle. This becomes an issue when a faction has the majority of the world pop or one is heavily under-populated, which has been a consistent pattern in this game since day one, and nothing Daybreak does is going to fix that. There will always be a faction that is perceived to be better than the rest and attract more players, and vice versa.



The whole thing that probably caused Daybreak to try to implement this system is more of a community-based problem and a player-based problem in general. I've watched certain outfits (Dapp is a good example) who have shown a general preference to ghost-cap an area en-masse and collapse and redeploy to ghost-cap another area the moment they encounter heavy resistance. I've heard several AoD commanders a couple months ago openly declare they prefer to fight the NC and will avoid the VS until necessary (something about the VS being overpowered cheaters). Some outfits like PHX will prioritize defending or catching certain bases (Tech Plants) over the defense of other regions.

The lattice system had limited the ability for larger groups to waltz around each other on the map but the ghost-capping regularly occurs between whole continents (on Emerald at least). Part of this reason is the other groups are already busy with their own fights and don't want to redeploy, or the ghost-capping is on a continent that everyone despises (Hossin) and nobody but Daybreak cares about it.

The whole reason I started playing this game to begin with is the appeal of large-scale warfare that no other game can match. With that in mind I accept the fact that there will be large forces moving into an area at once, especially if they perceive that area to be undefended. If I want to play smaller, even matches, there are countless, better options for that.

This game is a dozen times more fun in an outfit than fighting by oneself. The game was designed for teamplay and whichever side communicates and cooperates better than the other will be the victorious side. I have fun when playing in an active platoon who is talking and cooperating with each other. I get frustrated and eventually rage quit when I play by myself. Were it not for joining and outfit I would've quit this game over a year ago.

There are already percentage bonuses given to players fighting on a continent they are underpopped in. Perhaps those bonuses should be increased?

Much of what Daybreak (and SOE before them) have been doing has been trying to appeal to the solo CoD players instead of catering to the outfit team-based play that puts this game in its own unique category. A game forcing people to do something they don't want to do (fighting in another faction) is a real good way to make people quit in favor of other games.

If a faction is consistently overpoping the others, it is most likely a weapons balance issue, and forcing even pops among the factions will not fix it. It's not even a stop-gap measure, it is an irritant. Nobody wanted to be forced to fight the ZOE maxes when they were OP as hell, and the same went for the Striker when it first came out.

I just found out that paying members get priority.

I don't care anymore.

Think Think Think...OK conspiracy theory time. PlanetSide 2 has an employee on duty during peak play times. That employee has an App on their smart phone. This employee monitors servers at given intervals. The employee can set the Que and manipulate percentages.
Ok on subject. Yes something seems like it needs improvement. Not a hot fix. Just minor adjustments.
TR really dominated last night. I pretty much stayed out of the way. Spent time making ant hills even went to Hossin. That was a real slow never ending story.
O sure I tried to be effective in some of the battles (none on Hossin) but it just seems to turn into TR holding up and farming desperate defenders. They got bored once in awhile so when needed it becomes redeploy time. Throw a couple plt on another base that was about to cap. And then they come back to crush any advance.
This is no different of any other faction that has a large population. We all tend to group up and hit the enemy in force.

im not sure what you're trying to say axiom:

i understand the idea of contracting out the dev positions. but i think we all know that those positions are "few" compared to other companies. they are a small team.
combine that with a gigantic drop in player base which probably included over half the paying demographic... i just don't see how keeping the servers live and keeping the infrastructure up can keep them in the positive at this point. look what they did with h1z1? i think that wasn't a "smart biz move to diversify" but more of a "depending on which one of these games tanks first, we cut the cord to that server but keep the other population alive, hopefully" type of move.

just find it hard to believe that the longterm costs of the situation haven't all but erased any early profits they made.
thats why i think they are making the decisions they make because they don't want to alienate their customers but they need the customers to leave so they can close the shop because their customers aren't enough to pay the bills and keep the folks who come in for free coffee happy. if the customers leave of their own accord, in theory, db hasn't damaged its name with them.
if they shutter the servers, then db has tanked any chance of return customers in the future.

how many of yall are paying? that's really the key question as to the health of the game. how much of this community is actually putting money into it?

I have membership, and due to this new system i did indeed spend 20 mins fighting on Esamir while waiting to get onto Amerish at the weekend. Got sick of seeing the warp que at the top of my screen so i left the que and just fought on esamir with lower pops, i started 1/2 in the que, ended up 1/15 20 mins later. My bro was also trying to warp, also a member, and was 2nd in the que.

i don't have membership and i was in place 25 and for some reason i got warped after 2 minutes even tho it said i had to wait 17 minutes... not sure if broken or just lucky tho

Also dont forget that there is one major issue that fights aganst the forced balance.
That is character bound weapon and equipment. if you have BR100 on your main faction, why in the gods name would you swap to BR1 char on another faction where you cant do anything.

I get it, it would hurt the SOE income if they actually make the weapons and equipment universal and have every faction specific weapon to have a corresponding variant on another faction. But this is the only way to go on if they want to force faction balance.

Eventually this would lead into better gameplay as the weaker factions will eventually get abandoned and it would force the devs to correct those problems.

I can only assume that what happened there is a platoon of the underpopped faction warped to the underpopped continent, the game then allowed 25+ of your fellow soldiers through since the imbalance was gone.
I have also seen this happen, 6 of us were waiting, members and non members alike, and we all warped together.