The 0 Cert challenge. This game is not Pay 2 win.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by FortySe7en, Nov 28, 2012.

  1. Hetzau

    Ah! I was looking forward to someone doing this. Could you please test a few things for me;
    -Grab any class (besides a MAX) and try soloing an ESF with rocket pods that's focused on you
    -Grab a heavy and hit a fast moving ESF with the default rocket launcher
    -Play a sniper game with the default semi sniper on an infiltrator against another infiltrator that has a bolt and is aware of your presence
    -Kill a tank or any vehicle besides a flash with an engineer
    -Bring down an ESF that's aware of your presence as a MAX with a single burster
    -Bring down a fast moving vehicle with a Heavy
    -Use the default Lib loadout to successfully aoe clear an area below you (or at least get a killstreak)
    -Find someone that's as equally skilled as you from the community that has tons of certs unlocked and 1 vs 1 them
    -Grab the default MAX and go against a max that has both anti/infantry weapons equiped
  2. FortySe7en

    That isn't the point. People are really trying to hold onto the "this system stinks thing". This test was designed because people are saying that Station Cash and Certs will be overpowered at late stages in the game. So what we are doing to counter this claim is making characters with 0 certificiation points for the duration of our gameplay. This way when people say "oh your station cash and certs make you good" we can say, NOPE!
  3. Lord Gentlecrab

    What does this prove?? You are just 1 player amongst thousands.

    Have an entire faction on a server play without using certs and then post your results here and tell us this game isn't P2W.
  4. FortySe7en

    It proves that anyone can do it. And that is enough.

    As long as you can hold your own with no certs, and there is no insane game changing super weapon that you have to buy with a ton of certs or SC, then this test is a success.

    Unfortunately the real data of this test won't come through for at least a month or two.
  5. Cedj

    Sort of on the topic, I am really disgusted by the game right now.

    We just lost Indar for the first time on my server to an organized group of station cash users, they had it all. They pushed us from the crown to our WG in less than 3 and a half hours.

    The destructive power of stacked heavy tanks with explosive 750 cert primary is just mind blowing.
    Fully upgraded sunderer spawns, rocket pods, AA rockets and nukes by liberators from the flight ceiling just blocked us in every way.

    Now they were an outfit, they had all the shiny identical outfits and all, really taking stuff seriously.
    But damn, no one should be able to purchase this much firepower superiority for cash.

    I keep telling myself that in a few weeks it get better, when people unlock some of that stuff with certs. But damn, am I disappointed right now.
  6. FortySe7en

    That is a faction problem, not an SC problem. With proper defensive tactics, you can hold anything off. When I was a part of the 12v12 match in beta with the developers, we held off TRG with 12 people and they had about 40 tanks. You just need to play smart and not try to take them on directly. Set up cordons, use your rockets to take out priority targets, and stay indoors.
  7. Ixal

    So it is "the biolab" so to speak. Way to prove that the game is not P2W when paid vehicle weapons are what makes the game P2W.

    Completely wrong conclusion. It only proves that a " 14 year FPS veteran / pro player" does not suck against mostly less experienced players when he doesn't spend money. Thats all. It does in no way show that you do not have a huge advantage when you spend money, especially as you are too chicken to actually use the problematic stuff.

    Want to prove something? Record a few days of you playing without SC, including vehicles and then some days with a new character and bought weapons including air/tank infantry farming. Everything else is skewing the results. But as the headline already says, you are not interested in a neutral test anyway. You have made up your mind and make skewed videos to underscore it.

    You of course only used the unguided starter rockets, right?
  8. Imps

    How does not using certs come into p2w? Sounds boring as hell. It would make a lot more sense if you didn't run with any squads, otherwise it instantly counters whatever you're trying to prove, whether p2w or certless it's a moot point when 50 other people with you are fully certed/10k station cash in...
  9. Campor

    Dear GOD, the whining is immense. You don't need to pay a dime to get anything in this game that isn't cosmetic. It speeds up the process, sure, but that doesn't stop you from killing people and advancing there at your own pace. Similarly, I haven't paid a cent to this game and I STILL kill people in the air. Without rockets. And as a HA. Without guided rockets. And in tanks. Without any certs in them.

    It is not as stacked as some people claim it is. It takes skill, that's really all it is. Rockets and double burster MAXes make it easier, of course they do, but they are still killable by using a little tactic and proper maneuvering.
    • Up x 1
  10. evilduck

    i make every bet that these guys would wipe the floor with you even with all stock day one equipment and zero certs spend because they are a well organized team which knows what they are doing.

    this is a teamgame
    and its a game about playerskill (note: skill is much more than lightning reflexes and a impressive k/d ratio... )

    equipment is secondary (yes even the rocketpods)

    i really dont see why anyone in his right mind can say this is pay to win with a straight face. for the most part, with very few exceptions, weapons give you specialisation, not power. they are better for situations (or playstyles), not per se better. they all come with tradeoffs. so sony is right to talk about sidegrades.

    the only debateable exception is the rocketpods for the flyboys... they are a nobrainer because their seems to be no noticeable tradeoff, but a lot of advantages (like even usable against other aircraft), but this would be easyly fixable by just adding drag to them...

    i played the first week with stock weapon (im alpha, so i use the second one you get) without any certs or attachment, even using the ironsights... its perfectly fine, i dont feel any disadvantage against fully decked out players. all (as in 95%) of my numerous death were due to me being A) jumped B) plain bad at cqb D) bringing myself in situations i could not win in any case D) making a stupid move E) the other guy just being better F) getting roflstomped by a well organized team
    the last 5% are snipers i didnt even see

    being mediocre at best at fps, using stockequipment, playing casually and not organized AND being a class and faction most whiners here see as underpowered (la and nc) i did manage to get a positive k/d and some really nice stunts against superior , better equip forces like winning (and surviving) a six versus 1. if this game was remotly p2w this would not be possible in any way

    yesterday i bought the first things with certs (scope, foregrip, nonoweave 3). guess what, my performance did not skyrocket or even get noticable better in any way, im still mediocre at best

    and on a serious note
    why do you all harp on the p2w thingie
    if you really think it is, just play another game. i would. in fact i do. there are a lot of games out there that i think are not worth my time, but i do not spend hours on forums to lament about it. i just move on and play something else.

    i think soe s buisness modell for this game is fair. if this (im my perception at least) ever changes i will leave. plain and simple...

    so op i really like what your doing. well done :)

    • Up x 2
  11. Spookydodger

    Yeah, I would tend to agree with this. Since you can't buy weapon upgrades, or get certs through station cash (only accelerate XP and get more certs) wouldn't it be equally as effective in proving "not pay to win" to just not use SC?

    Or are you trying to also prove that starter characters are basically as effective as highly augmented characters?
  12. Rue

    People who can't or won't spend money on the game, are surely at a disadvantage when (say) facing a rocket pod toting ESF while running as (say) a stock LA or one-arm burster MAX. However, these are just ludicrous strawmen.

    You're not alone on the map. There are plenty of people who have bought both arms, or the G2A missiles or the Skyguard (oh dear!).

    Rue is what, BR22 or such like. Plenty of certs. Easy to kill. I die a lot for being first in the room, but I mostly die at the hands of someone I don't even see (and that's not blaming the shonky draw distances in the game). I'll happily tip my hat to someone who gets well positioned and takes me down. I don't think that's got anything to do with SC or certs.
  13. Imij

    People will complain any time money is involved. They don't want someone skipping steps because they can't, or won't, spend some money to support the developers. The freebies don't want anyone having a TEMPORARY advantage over them. The same advantage a person who played 2-3hrs a day would have by now.

    I'm a free player thus far with a 3.5 KDR playing 90% infantry. I have no trouble with people who bought infantry/vehicle weapons with SC, unless they're more skilled than me.

    Oh, and I plan on spending $60+ this week or next, to support the developers and this amazing game. P2W guys, come at me bros.
  14. Spookydodger

    Not applicable. Infantry under most circumstances shouldn't be able to defeat a vehicle outdoors, by themselves. Even being in a fighter with the basic weapon, no rockets, you could pick infantry apart because you are in a vehicle and they are not. Under normal circumstances the infantry should probably lose.
    And what is the fast moving ESF going to do to you other than wave? Rocket pods require either lead in distance and straight flying, or hovering to red-mist infantry. While hoving they aren't moving fast; while flying from a distance to get an attack run, they are distant and avoidable.

    Being a good infiltrator requires people not knowing your presence or else you weren't being a good infiltrator. Starting the situation with "knowing you are there" is somewhat akin to asking for someone who has already failed straight out of the gate.

    And then I want you to fix a car with a My Little Pony Playhouse set. Proper tools for the job. Unless the Engy has mines this is going to be a non-starter.

    Plausible. Well done! Do I get to pick the terrain? Am I completely alone with no engy support? Seems kinda arbitrary to me.

    You were stung as a child, weren't you...
    While a decent challenge, this now directly depends on other people. I find the shredder to be a more effective AA weapon than anti ground. I think it is possible to do this however, since they improved liberator survivability.
    No one argues that certs don't provide an advantage. I think a better test would be 1 squad of people taking the same base, 1 time with base weapons, the next with non-standard weapons, and see the time. Would be best if you had the same adversary, of course.
    I'm confused. Wouldn't the default max normally win since he has an anti-tank weapon?
    • Up x 2
  15. hammyhamm

    That is indeed true. I'm not saying the game isn't P2W (I personally think it is), but I think it isnt to the same extend many other games are *cough*Tribes:ascend*cough*. I think this version of free2play is preferable as it isn't an instant "win" button and still requires lots of in-game time. With the choice between this or monthly subscription, I prefer this!
  16. ZipIce

    I will be more impressed if you did this as a TR.
  17. mrb_

    To say that you're just as good without flat %-based improvements with no downside (like the nanoweave improvements) as you are with them is to blatantly lie.
  18. Cyridius

    This is a good thread, so I don't want to derail is any further. The irony comment was not directed at your actions.
    Let me just summarise my opinion, BuzzCut is the absoulute antithesis of a "good" member of the community. Skilled, sure. Racist, bigoted, sectarian and a general *********? Certainly. I'm not sure if he puts it on for the trolls, but it's gotten past the stage for me where it really matters. Everything bad in not only the PS2 community but the internet as a whole is shown in his ********.
    I get your reasoning as to why you "support" him, but I strongly disagree that it is worth it. Each to his own.

    Keep on truckin' with your stream though, it's a great watch especially as an NC player.
  19. Aghar30

    I tip my lazer gun to you my friend, so tired of the P2W comments. Stock weapons are great, bought weapons just provide more specialized options.
  20. Bullwinkle 01

    In many ways, the paid-for weapons are less effective than the default...both the Gauss SAW S and the GD-22S have less DPS than the standard Gauss SAW, for example. I think some weapons match a player's style a little better, but in the end the differences are minimal. Sure there will be things you have trouble killing, like aircraft, but that would be true if you were playing anything except HA too. I think the game works fine with default gear, but is a bit better with certed it should be.

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