Tank/Liberator Changes Update

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Kevmo, Jun 16, 2014.

  1. Jetlag

    I was looking forward to testing out the new changes for myself but it turn out 345ms ping isnt conducive to testing :(
    I guess I will rely on the feedback of others till I can experience these nerfs firsthand on live.
  2. maxkeiser

    It's quite simple. All the other tank changes can go forward as far as I'm concerned, but the magrider should be made the fastest tank.

    It needs to retain the speed and ability to move. For it to be the slowest and least manouverable of all the tanks is just absurd.

    Oddly, the tank changes as they are will just narrow magrider configurations into one loadout - racer chassis and maximum magburner (admittedly, what I use the whole time anyway). Anything else will be suicide.

    I also predict that vanu populations will plummet if the changes go forward without some magrider upgrades.
  3. JackD

    Blast radius buff on the Duster wont achieve anything, the problem is that the COF is to high, the weapon cant be aimed.
    • Up x 2
  4. Linus

    (my post from another thread related to the same PTS patch)
    Ok I have tested this famous update on the PTS and here are my thoughts regarding the Magrider and the lightning:

    Magrider
    • The rival chassis is now totally useless compared to the racer one. The increased reverse speed make the Magrider more agile with Racer than with Rival.
      This last one without the reverse speed bonus gives the sensation to be very slow and vulnerable. It grants no noticeable advantages over the racer chassis if not a quicker rotation speed +a slightly better climb ability.
      Also the improvement over a stock chassis is not a big deal.
    • The driving of the Magrider feels always fatty and glued. The -5 kph of the racer chassis is noticable and it increases this sensation of being very heavy. Honestly the Magrider may needs +5 kph but not the contrary.

    • The new reverse speed is slow to start from 0 kph but while on the move, you can reverse quite easily and with a minimum speed loss by using the rotation and the left / right arrows. With some training i think that it could leads to more interesting brawls due to the greater agility.
      From my point of view, this new reverse speed should be reduced slightly, -5 kph sounds good to me.

    • The changes for the gravity and the velocity of the Magrider's projectiles are not so noticeable at close range.
      However, I tested the VPC and i can say that the new projectile drop is a bit annoying because it falls very quickly after 100 meters.
      Therefore, while it is always not so hard to hit a close target, it is now much harder to hit a tiny target (infantry) at a medium to long distance.
      Also this new change brings two new problems on the table:
      - the first one is that the effective vertical angle of the primary weapon (already limited) is even more reduced because the projectile has more gravity. So if the target is at a medium range and is higher than you, then you will have to increase the distance from the target so to find the right angle.
      - The second problem is that this new projectile drop obliges the shooter to compensate the bad angle even more and it is now harder to hit on the move a far target.
      To sum up the idea, the VPC is now more inaccurate and less intuitive. The changes here are going in the wrong way obviously for a MBT which is supposed to fire while keeping a certain mobility.

    • Basically, the same modification applied to the Halberd is totally exaggerated here and you have the feeling to have mounted a mortar on the top. It is a ridiculous modification, let's be honnest.
    The Lightning
    • The stabilization feels good and smooth. Combined with the 3rd view shooting, it grants to the lightning a greater effectiveness. Combined to the high speed of the lightning, this new accuracy is totally deadly.
      On a rough terrain, the driver will have to compensate a little but he/she can keep a good aim on any target even at high speed. The camera is not anymore shaking a lot and it feels less nauseous.

    • The reverse speed of the lightning is...how to qualify it? ...insane. Totally insane.
      With the racer chassis and this new reverse speed, you can now go backward quickly at 80 kph without problem. It adds so much survivability to this tank that it's really exaggerated.
      My opinion is that this update will be more gainful for the ligthnings and their skilled drivers will certainly dominate the ground battles with the good setup. I see no point to take an harasser or a MBT when you have a NAR lightning which is able to do even better than an harasser before its big nerf (in term of agility, potential of escape, and of great accuracy at high speed)
  5. Flag

    I'm not saying it's not hard, just pointing out that you can.
  6. Sanguinary

    I'm really glad to hear that some of the feedback has been taken into consideration.

    I like the changes to Liberator audio, this was necessary.

    I like the fact that the belly-gun roles have been better defined, I admit that it was somewhat possible for them to excel in one field, yet do surprisingly well in other areas, too.

    I agree with most of Rhino's thoughts on the first page in regards to belly weapons. If you're using the Dalton with an AP splash model, then retaining the splash damage shouldn't be an issue.

    I agree on the Zephyr as well, it's not really in an exact place, it's more versatile than the Dalton, more forgiving and yet it lacks quite a lot on either field, especially if you reduce it's splash and direct damage vs armour. At the very least, keep this under scrutiny as to how it performs (in the role you see it used for). A cert refund on this wouldn't hurt.

    Agreed on Shredder, including the aircraft gun model as opposed to ground range, the drop-offs for damage are extreme for an aircraft.

    The Duster could still use a little something, the splash ranges definitely defines it as HE usage, as does the magazine size, however it's still quite horrible. Maybe either tighten the maximum CoF/bloom or add a bit more velocity, 25ms or 50ms so it doesn't feel like I can catch up to my own shells for friendly fire.

    As for the tank changes, I really think some of Klypto's posts should be taken to heart (not just Klypto's), i'm glad you're not making it as excessive as you initially proposed, and that you did listen to some of the feedback. A gradual release followed by a phase 2 adjustment is definitely a good approach, in my opinion.

    Not a lot more to add: I'll keep checking to see how this goes. Again, props for listening to community feedback.
    • Up x 1
  7. RemusVentanus

    I am a VS player... so no need for medicine.

    Our tank is the slowest yes, for that we can strafe to dodge shots. For me as i stay at 48+ battles for AA cover vs libs and ESFs forward speed means not too much. Strafe/reverse is more important to me (im a bit annoyed that reverse got taken from Combat Chassi and given to Racer), maybe strafe will get a slight buff at some point with the stabilisation, but we shall see.

    If nothing has changed about that yet we still have the same armor as the prowler. Our AP is able to OKH ESF and like how i can blow up tanks that just reverse a bit backwards behind cover. With a no drop gun like some VS players want i would have and will miss out on a bunch of kills.

    What i dont understand is why you complain about it, you rarely play with the magrider?
  8. PKfire


    Full auto? No, but if you squeeze off your shots there is some accuracy to be had. That being said, the COF bloom is definitely the source of this weapons shortcomings.
    • Up x 1
  9. Bindlestiff

    This, so much this.

    If you truly are seeing how things play out SOE, prove it. Implement some or preferably all of these instead of 99% of what you have already done. Tankers aren't in a rush; if the planned lib changes can wait, tankers can wait too.

    Otherwise, it is just more hot air aimed to pacify rather than having any substance.
  10. Alyz


    Infis are the safest class of all from libs because they can cloak while running from cover to cover. It's extremely hard to notice a cloaked infi from a lib, so if the infi doesn't make a stupid mistake any hit by a lib is pure chance or result of superb coordination with ground forces. IMHO a direct hit from a lib could OHK an infi and it'd still be fair play.
    As an infi you don't have any way to deal with a lib, so you don't have any reason to be in their field of view and unlike anyone else you have the means to do just that. Instead, kill everyone else and force the pilots to abandon their gunships to help on the ground.
    • Up x 1
  11. Axehilt


    HE rounds are almost entirely irrelevant. Why bother removing them?
  12. Pacster

    You are one of the dudes that stand on some hill on the other end of the map and think that is tank battle, right? Elseway you'd know that you are not going to hit any halfway decent ESF pilot due to the angle of your gun.....and that the bullet dropdown only works behind cover when the enemy is on a lower level than you...but then you could hit them with a straight shot too cause for real artillery curve shots the gravity is not high enough.
    I'd love to see how you dodge me when I'm sitting in a vanguard or prowler. At the moment when you see the projectile it's already too late to move with your magrider. Unless you are on the other end of the map I don't have a problem to hit you...that's for sure. People that can't aim will be dodged by vanguards or prowlers as well.

    The question is why I rarely use magriders. Maybe cause I don't like to be strafing left and right at the end of the map in hope to find some idiot that is not seeing that energy ball flying his way...cause that is all what most magrider pilots (can) do these days since they don't stand a chance in a 1on1 close combat.
  13. Yeahy

    YES! No nerf to Dalton speed and damage. They needed to nerf it against infantry anyways. I'm liking this update more and more.
    The shredder still seems a bit too good against some things such as esf's and some armor. However, it did need a nerf against maxes and infantry,
  14. Scr1nRusher

    same reason why you would stop someone from smacking you in the face repeatedly causing you to leave the room.
  15. AnuErebus


    As an infil you're still one of the guys trying to push out of the spawn, across the pad at a biolab or into a random point building. If liberators only hunted down solitary targets I might agree with you, but the fact that libs primarily go after groups of targets and that infils are a part of those groups means they're just as vulnerable as everyone else.

    And good luck getting a enemy lib crew to think they'll suddenly be useful on the ground, because their buddies are dead. More likely than not they'll have even more reason to keep on farming your side while you try and push out of the base. The only thing that's going to get rid of a lib crew is boredom from a lack of targets, or something blowing them up.
  16. orbital

    so, there's a direct damage buff to the Dalton and lowered armor resistance on the Lib. since all hits to Libs from Daltons are direct, isn't that a double nerf? or has the math been made to workout that the Dalton does two hit kills again to Libs like it used to? if so, hopefully it's a true 50% instead of it took two hits because the first was 70%.
    this seems like a gift to the top skilled Lib / Dalton crews vs any other LIb crew who tries to fly against them - nothing will be able to take them down now, especially since the Shredder was the only thing that could do it - just got nerfed. Just wondering though, not complaining.

    however Dalton changes will reward skill vs. ground and that's good from my perspective.

    the Shredder indirect damage change was expected but I'm surprised it didn't come with compensation like the Dalton. needs better range and reduced CoF because as it is on Live, the blast damage compensates for how fast and low you have to fly to kill anything on the ground, there's no time to be accurate and frankly it's all over the place - I mean, that makes sense if you're reducing infantry farming abilities but it's still not great as the "new" anti-air solution without range or accuracy buffs. funny how these numbers work, it will be like shooting the TR's TAR at infantry from the bottom of the LIB, why such a large in-game model?

    tank stabilization, nice! I dunno, seems to make up for any nerfs planned.

    haven't heard a Lib fly over yet. someone describe the change.

  17. Mystik

    Now your just talking silly, expecting accuracy from the duster in the current form is like expecting the second coming. :)
    • Up x 1
  18. orbital

    after playing on the test server for HIgby's tank test...
    tanks are fine. I was slightly more deadly than on Live vs. other tanks. don't know what all the hubbub was all about.

    however, if ranges were reduced to encourage close tank on tank combat, then something really should be given up on the Vanguard, as I am closer to it, shield is on and it's still firing on me. yet, if I sit back on a hill with the Prowler in lockdown where I have an advantage, I'm not really close enough to be effective anymore. are the Prowlers the only tank where the "special" makes the tank lose something too? Magrider can mag-burn in a little circle around the Vanguard while the shield is on at least. Why isn't the Vanguard shield like their Max shield, or at least a HA shield where it makes you move slow. or damage resistance during lockdown maybe?

    so, I killed 4 Magriders and only one Vanguard and lost 4 Prowlers (one to a jerk who had a Vanu Max at the TR vehicle terminal right after I pulled it).

    didn't get killed by a single Lib either.
  19. Ranik

    Tried the changes at the playtest. People still chose to sit and camp with their tanks for the entire time because tanks != close combat vehicles despite these changes.

    Observations;

    Stabilization: Nice though hindered by making cannons both harder to hit with and slower. Anything past close quarters range (200m+) becomes trickier. If both targets are moving or both moving at longer ranges? Nope.

    Velocity/Gravity: At anything <300m it's not that big of a deal. The problem? <300m is infantry territory. And we should not be in infantry territory. So the velocity / gravity changes are in fact a problem.

    Reverse speed: Honestly just silly. A reverse speed buff is fine but make it weaker.

    Feedback (likely to be ignored):
    1:Keep stability.
    2:Remove gravity / Velocity changes.
    3:If needed buff reverse speed by a smaller amount. Something like 5-10kph per vehicle.


    And i'll once again ask for some Dev input. What you want MBT's to be? If you want them to be more close combat oriented you are going to have to reconsider the state of a lot of Infantry AV and how that interacts with a closer tank gameplay style.
    • Up x 1
  20. Klypto

    I found the velocity / gravity changes annoying. You can't annoy everyone closer to each other, it doesn't work that way.

    The reverse speed was goofy as I thought, and I did flip my tank a few times as I thought. I did run away from a Magrider in Reverse, which while hilarious, but wasn't fair because I overextended to extreme amount and then just popped my shield and ran right back.

    PTS changes made the Vanguard insanely OP as it greatly magnifies it's strengths.
    • Up x 5