Tank/Liberator Changes Update

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Kevmo, Jun 16, 2014.

  1. Kevmo Developer

    We’d like to thank everyone for their feedback last week on the proposed tank and Liberator changes found here: https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/upcoming-tank-and-liberator-changes.189062/

    These changes will be implemented in phases and continually evaluated based on feedback and data.

    The tank changes are already primed to go to test, so we'll see those soon. As for the Liberator changes, here is how we’re breaking it up followed by some details on phase 1.

    Phase 1:
    • Focus on defining the belly gun roles and reducing their effectiveness against infantry
    • Revert the stock armor increases made in the Liberator update
    • Adjust Liberator audio signature/volume to be more noticeable
    We’re holding off on other changes until Phase 2. Phase 2 will likely include:
    • Tank Buster and other nose gun adjustments
    • Bulldog and other tail gun adjustments
    • Further tuning of changes from phase 1
    And now some details on the Phase 1 belly gun changes:

    C150 Dalton
    To reduce effectiveness against infantry, the Daltons blast damage and size is being adjusted to be similar to an armor piercing tank shell. Its projectile speed and damage will remain unchanged.

    • C150 Dalton
      • Blast radius reduced to 0.5 meters inner, 1 meter outer.
      • Blast damage reduced from 750 to 450
      • Blast damage will no longer damage armor.
        • Direct hit damage will be increased to compensate.
    L105 Zepher
    Still working out the details here, but essentially the Zepher will trade some anti-tank damage for retaining some effectiveness against personnel.

    • L105 Zepher
      • Blast damage reduced from 700 to 450
      • Direct Damage against vehicles will be reduced slightly, still working out exact numbers
    AP30 Shredder
    The Shredder will be losing its explosive damage to reduce effectiveness against infantry and MAX units. All other attributes will remain the same, which should make it a more versatile and reliable belly gun option.

    • AP30 Shredder
      • Blast damage removed.
    Dual-75 Duster
    The Duster is intended to be the premiere anti-personnel option. We will be increasing the inner and outer blast sizes to make it more effective against infantry.

    • Dual-75 Duster
      • Inner blast radius increased from 0.75 meters to 2 meters
      • Outer blast radius increased from 4 meters to 6 meters
    We're working on getting these changes to test server soon.
    • Up x 19
  2. PKfire

    Thanks for the update.
    • Up x 9
  3. Ranik

    60 Pages explaining why MBT changes are insane, detrimental and utterly foolish. "Don't worry guys, we are listening to all the feedback"

    • Up x 21
  4. Lewk

    This is a great start, but please continue to monitor and adjust as necessary. Liberators are the #1 reason i have a hard time getting new players into the game. There is nothing i can say when they ask "How can i kill that flying gunship?" : because as low BR players, they do not have access to lockons (which is only going to get them killed anyways), dual bursters, or skyguard (neither of which can 1v1 a competent Lib crew anyways). They also are not going to have the experience to pull an ESF and do anything to the Lib before being shot down.
    • Up x 8
  5. T-Dawg302


    Maybe not with the shredder though...

    But I LOVE the duster buff!
    • Up x 1
  6. Redderic

    Thank you for the update. I highly encourage that your team does not rush to implement the changes without first reviewing player feedback from the test server. This should not only be an opportunity to bug test, but to identify how the changes could be more appropriately implemented.
    • Up x 1
  7. PKfire

    I would have to agree it didn't seem like they took much, if any of the tank feedback to heart.
    • Up x 5
  8. Scr1nRusher

    (Sarcasm) Because tankers are not MLG 360 no scope elite enough compared to the liberator lobby. (Sarcasm)

    If only they would just remove tank HE rounds and help there game.
  9. gigastar

    Isnt this just a Liberator change update thread then?
    • Up x 4
  10. Ranik

    No. It's also a subtle **** YOU to the dedicated tankers who try to make the game better.
    • Up x 9
  11. gigastar

    Ive given up on any tank seeing an actual buff until the infantry zones are fully isolated.

    Until then, im just going to complain about the Prowler having the best mobility and DPS.
  12. Scr1nRusher

    SOE I have a suggestion on how to improve the Spur and the Vector, not only do they work, but they really allow the weapons to stand out from one another.

    • Damage increased from 225 to 250
    • Spur now has explosive damage.( Same as what the banshee and/or shredder has)
    This allows the weapon to be more effective against ground targets.

    • ROF increased from 400 to 475
    • The weapon now has exploding Flak Rounds against Air Targets.
    This allows the weapon to be a decent all around weapon, but is abit more useful against air targets.
  13. Kevmo Developer

    We understand the concerns about the tank changes. We’re not 100% sure we’re going through with all of the changes, but they were already completed, so might as well let them hit test server. We have the ability to revert or hold them on test server for longer if needed.
    • Up x 15
  14. danielpxp

    THANK YOU! Just thank you!

    Phase 1 sounds exactly like what we wanted to have in the first place!

    1 Thing I would like to note as a suggestion:
    I hope with "reverting stock resistance" you also mean daltons 2 shot libs again! ;)
    And remove every comp armor resistance regarding this.
    Composite Armor should (in my opinion) increase the FLAK resistance, Lock-On Anti-Air Launcher Resistances and a bit of these bullet resistances from Walker/Basilisks (But only a tiny amount!). - Not Dalton, MBT shell and light tank shall resistance.
    That way comp armor would still be a viable choice, that can be killed by "skilled" weapons, where the lib deserves to die; Tankshells...

    But I am happy to see some response from you and at least listening to the part of the community that said that the planned update is wrong.
    I hope you will continue to listen to our feedback and at least listen a bit more of the feedback from people who actually know what they write about.. Everyone can tell their opinion, but telling others how a vehicle is overperforming in an easymode way but not even having any experience in that thing is stupid.
    *Example.. Coyotes*
    • Up x 1
  15. JibbaJabba

    Can you explain the "vision" of the Zephyr for me?

    Initially the Dalton was anti-tank, and the Zephyr was anti-infantry. Each could do the other's role but not well. Then came the duster and (as often happens) schizophrenia for the other guns. I've held of on putting certs into it because certs invested in the zephyr got nullified. Actually I don't even think I've actually purchased it (loss of revenue warning!!) because I figured you would nerf/tweak/something it.

    It seems like you keep tweaking them this way and that and honestly I have no idea what on earth your goal is for the Zephyr so I can't provide any meaningful feedback.
  16. gigastar

    Thats fine, but seriously you should know by now that not telling us whats going on is literally the worst thing you can do when you make big changes like theese.

    Oh and before i forget, the Mag was the smallest MBT in PS1, why is it still the largest ground vehicle in PS2?
    • Up x 3
  17. Scr1nRusher

    the Zepher will basically be the HEAT round of the sky(Decent vs all targets, less powerful vs armored, but better vs infantry then the dalton), and the zepher will be able to fire off the 6 shots in faster succession.

    SOE did I have it right?
  18. Ronin Oni

    Dalton = AP

    Zephyr = HEAT

    Duster = HE

    Doesn't seem all that complicated...

    Zephyr is still miles better at AI than the Dalton, and still retains usefulness against armor unlike the Duster, but is not as good at either dedicated weapon.
    • Up x 3
  19. Ranik

    And we more than likely expect them to hit live despite people trying them on PTS and rejecting them.

    Tankers honestly want to help you. But you don't have any clear vision for what you want MBT's to be. And you are trying to force them into a position that you previously designed them to instantly die in. For the longest time you designed tanks, AV gear and bases around keeping Armor out and far away from infantry. And now you are trying to push them closer? Are you also going to buff tank armor? Are you going to nerf AV? AT mines? C4?

    It is clear to all tankers that your new vision for MBT's is utterly utterly counter to 2 years of development and will only leave them in an awful position. We are already XP pinata's that are more often than not fired at by huge infantry zergs / C4 rushed by infinetly respawning C4 fairies / Fired at from out of render range by AV mana turrets or long range AV maxes.

    You say you want to make tanks combat a closer affair? OK. But are you prepared to nerf/buff just about everything else to make that happen? As is right now we have no idea what you are even trying to do. Because it is in direct contradiction to how YOU designed the game. We fully expect this to be just one more in a long line of nerfs without a single thing to show for it and your "oh we are just keeping options on the table" routine is so old that no one trusts you anymore.
    • Up x 12
  20. RHINO_Mk.II

    Phased Updates:
    Excellent plan to be slow and steady on the balance changes instead of throwing them all in at once. I may not approve of the changes you are making, but I do approve of making them incrementally.

    Belly gun role changes:
    SC/Certs should be refunded on all weapons and attachments due to the massive change in the intended role of each weapon. When I bought the Zephyr, for instance, I did so because it was the intended anti-infantry shelling weapon. Now that its effectiveness in that role has been neutered and another weapon has been introduced to assume that role, refunds must be given or your customers will (rightly) complain about bait and switch money grab tactics.

    Stock Armor and Engine Volume:
    Excellent changes. The stock armor should never have been increased in the first place, as while it did make them viable in large scale conflicts, it made them effectively unstoppable in 12v12 or smaller engagements. Volume should never have been so quiet in the first place, but it's good that you have identified and are fixing this.

    Blast damage should stay at 750 if you plan to reduce the splash range by that much. (Previously 1m-9m, now 0.5m-1m) If you can hit a dalton within 0.5m of an infantryman twice in a row, it should kill. Glad that you aren't touching velocity, or nobody would use this over shredder. Hopefully the direct damage increase is not extreme, hard to tell without numbers.

    Strange to see this weapon being nerfed in both roles with no buff to compensate. I was not aware that it was overperforming so highly. I recommend that splash damage be reduced from 700 to 500 instead of 450, otherwise it will take 5 rounds at 0.5m to kill a flak armored infantryman. Velocity should also be increased to that of the Dalton, as it is currently terrible.

    Agree with splash damage removal. Direct damage against infantry should be increased to compensate. (I realize that in your engine it's not possible for infantry to have weapon resists, so increase the base damage and everything else's resists to compensate.) Minimum and Maximum damage range should be increased to be in line with other aircraft weapons, currently it follows the ground weapon range model.

    Agree with splash radius increases. Velocity also needs to be increased: 100m/s for an aircraft mounted weapon is terrible. (My shells should not be struggling to outrun dumbfire rockets fired upwards towards me)
    • Up x 6