[Vehicle] Tank buster 7000 certs!

This is not reality, it is assumption.

The walker is a poor weapon when a tank burster lib is bearing down on you or gets the jump on you. Two clips to kill it means you're a dead tank.

THAT is reality.

I got several kills with a Skyguard yesterda, including a Lib or two. I was providing cover so my squad could move in. One of those rare open air bases that is actually vulnerable to air attack. Looking around is my primary means of finding aircraft. I don't have the luxury of sitting and listening. I wear a headset for TS and can't normally hear engine sounds over my squadmates talking.

I tend to get some pretty decent kills with the Skyguard. I keep hearing that flak is a deterrent, but what I see ingame is another story. I'm good with a Skyguard, a Base Turret, and Bursters. Course deterrent doesn't mean it doesn't get kills. Deterrent means its scary enough to deny an area. But your typical cert farming zergling can't utilize (or rather wants to use something cooler) them effectively. If the shoe fits.. you know what to do.

So now I have a nefarious reason behind my posts? Please quote where I said the sound shouldn't be fixed because I gave you a means of getting the bug fixed. But you don't want it fixed, you want to use it as a red herring to see a weapon nerfed Nerf a weapon because a sound is bugged.. that's biggest crock of BS I have ever seen on these forums.

Explain to me how a Dev will take that?

"Liberator can't be heard sometimes"
"Alright, should fix that."
"Yeah, by nerfing the Tankbuster"
"Wtf does the tankbuster have with the sound of the lib?"

This is why nerf calls need to be against the forum rules again. Nothing constructive comes out of them. Next we're going to see people call for Sundy nerfs because the shield on the AI MANA turret is bugged.

I never said it was a solution to being TBed. I said...if more tanks carried them...liberators wouldn't be buzzing you as often. I often see fields of four or five tanks and zero of them have AA with them. Two tanks with walkers keeping an eye out to spot for their driver means faster reaction times. You know when I TB tanks...most of them never even see me coming. They are so UNAWARE of anything other than what ever it is they are farming....and their gunners are just as guilty.

You know those giant bridges from Regent rock to Skydock? Why do tanks always stop there then send hate tells when they get TBed?

Actually...the comment itself is an assumption. I don't know...maybe you just suck at the walker. But in reality you need to take a step back and look at possibility you just aren't good at it. Of course I may be wrong and you are just a master of everything in this game. But then again...you seem to get TBed a lot I however....do not. Infact I can count on one hand the amount of times I've been killed by the TBer.

I would suggest you reread the post I made. You will see I was saying that they would nerf the Tankbuster in an attempt to fix the problem with sounds not playing correctly. Look at the past updates to the liberator and you will see where they repeatedly nerfed the liberators weapons, When the entire time they simply should have just balanced the health and tanking properties a liberator has. No where in that post was I actively calling for the tankbuster to be nerfed, I was saying that they would simply nerf it to try and solve the problem you keep trying to protect. Hearing in this game is everything. I would even say its second only to sight itself.


And please do show me where you "Gave me the means" to fix the bug of liberators flying silently, Because I saw was you telling me I needed to "Look around more". Looking around more is not possible when you are dealing with an active threat trying to kill you. Use a liberator as an example, Why should I stop my valuable DPS to look behind me, When I should be able to hear the lib coming? If you stop firing a liberator that is closing in on you, You are dead. No ifs ands or buts. When fighting a liberator that is COMING for you, If you look away you. are. dead.

As for how a dev will take it, You nearly had the thought process dead on, Allow me to fix it so that its perfect:

"Liberator can't be heard sometimes"
"Alright, should fix that."
"Yeah, by nerfing the Tankbuster"
"Wtf does the tankbuster have with the sound of the lib?"

Look at this for all nerfing situations, You will see if you change the Liberator with the item in question, This is the exact process for all nerfs.

We're not going for a complete build, as that isn't the issue. The issue is that 1/3 libs are incredibly powerful because of the TB. Takes the cert effectiveness for the frame. 1700 is actually the correct cert count for mag size increase.

That's 100+1700+200+700+1000+2925= 6625 certs.

For comparison, we have the humble deterrent that is the Skyguard.

1000 certs for the turret (or 700sc if you are lazy)
200 for Thermal (zoom and NV are useless on it)
830 for maxed FS
1330 for maxed stealth (never run without it)
700 certs for a performance chassis of choice
2250 certs for maxed reload speed (can run without it, but same with TB mag size)

In total: 6310 certs

A difference of a mere 7.5%, however the gap in effectiveness is vast. I can also guarantee the TB does not kill Skyguards only 7.5% faster than the Skyguard can kill the TB.

Yeah, for gosh sakes, it's been like 3 patches since the last lib nerf. It's about time to nerf it some more...

The difference is that sitting in a tank and spinning your turret around is a hell of a lot easier than flying an aircraft very low to the ground and attempting to strafe a tank in one specific area (the rear) without crashing into anything, getting shot by other tanks, or missing. You also have to be able to fly to the target without getting killed by other libs and ESFs in the area, which is not easy for most pilots.

Balance isn't done in a vacuum. In this example we're not entirely sure how fast either weapon could fare against the other.

What I do know however is that the Skyguard, can probably dump 2-3 magazines of flak into an approaching Lib before the Lib can even fire back. I know this simply because I've done it before. It does require sight of the Lib of course.. but that's a skill issue. Also personally I run 1.5x zoom on my Skyguard.. I don't see how Thermal's would be effective since their range is limited. Being that the Skyguard is a long range weapon, I see the zoom as being quite effective.

I also know that Skyguards can exponentially get better the more of them there are. Again we cannot balance in a vacuum. One lone Skyguard is pretty ineffective against more than 2-3 aircraft (intended, this isn't a solo game). But 2 Skyguards can concentrate fire and do incredible amounts of damage to a single lib and even Galaxies. 3 Skyguards make passes extremely risky and pretty much ensure you cannot use the tankbuster without dying.

In most zerg formations its not uncommon to see 3-6 skyguards depending on the perceived air threat. Lets say for example there is 5 Skyguards in a localized area. That doesn't mean only 5 libs are repelled. But 5+ Libs, half a dozen ESFs, and Galaxies numbering less than 3 cannot enter the area without dying. 5 Skyguards somewhat shooting at the same things (coordinated SGs will obliterate shtuff), will deny airspace for up to 15 aircraft of varying types.

That's the definition of a deterrent. And not bad for a 1/1 vehicle that can be pulled from any base.

Its off-topic but if we wish to discuss ground vs air balance, we have to talk about escalation of force. Sure.. a 1/1 Lightning will get obliterated by a 1/3 if he gets caught off guard or out in the open and alone. But how does a 3/3 lib or two get over an area with heavy AA? They get torn up long before those Tankbusters are in range. If we say they need to have ground forces take care of it.. that's a fair assessment. But be prepared to be hard countered by some air assets too that require you to get into the sky. Fair is fair, and fair is balance. At least for the sake of argument by what everyone's presented so far.

My personal assessment? AA is in a very good spot vs Libs. Maybe even too good. Lightnings aren't really the issue. The issue is MAX bursters firing from spawn rooms. Three of those can lockout a base from air without any return fire. Change that and we can come back to the balance table.

I'm not going to believe the Tankbuster is viable much less OP until it can reliably get in range of targets. Right now its a vulture, waiting to pick off the weak and sickly. That has no point or role in this game.

You're right, the Tank Buster isn't OP, but 'No point or role in this game' for the Tank Buster?

Clearly you haven'tt seen what capable users of the Tank Buster can do to change the tide of a battle

My skyguard has zoom....I run Top Armor *for obvious reasons. Better than stealth if you ask me* I only have rank 2reload speed. The chassie I only have because I use the lighting for tanking.

All in all i've invested 50% less certs into my Skyguard than I have a Liberator...and again...my skyguard has never actually been killed by a TB.

That said...Complete build...you stated above isn't the issue. Your own cert count is irrelevent. Reload speed doesn't help...preformance chassis doesn't help. So you can subtract 2950 certs from the lighting total.

That said....two stock skyguards can clear the skys......two stock libs with TB are only fodder.

The whole thread seems to imply that there is a HUGE plague of 1/3 libs that are OP. But when we look at the stats in the Oracle of death. The TB gets less than 1.3% of all MBT and Lighting Kills.

Also from the Oracle of death the Skyguard actually has an average KPH of slightly higher than 9 across all 3 empires. Well the TB among all three empires has an average KPH of slightly higher than 2. Which means? The Skyguard gets 4X the amount of kills an hour than the TB..huh....yet more facts enter the conversation and the TB looks less and less OP.

Reload speed decreases your TTK on the Lib. Especially helpful since you need 129 rounds to kill one. Performance chassis allows you to get to spots you otherwise couldn't and run from enemies you would otherwise die to. Thermal allows you to see through smoke and see infantry threats. Stealth allows you to remain somewhat off your enemy's radar. I can guarantee I have lived longer because I showed up on less people's radar.

You can run without High G on the Lib. You can run without AB on the Lib. That alone subtracts nearly 3k certs from the total lib budget. But I can gurantee you they help a lot. Same with reload, thermal, and Racer on the Lightning. Oddly enough they cost about the same, too.

The reason 1.3% of MBTs are killed by the Lib is because there are few Libs. The TB is one of the highest DPS weapons in the game. Naturally more than a few people are going to call BS when they are killed by it. I don't like it because it makes a vehicle that is supposed to be balanced around having a crew much easier to use by one person.

A tank can still one shot an infantry that has thousands of certs invested in weapons, suit, abilities and utilities. A completely uncerted flash can run over and one shot a max unit with thousands of certs invested into it. Why is it that only when they get one shot/one clipped do the tankers cry that its wrong all while demanding they get to keep their ability to OHK infantry? Its amusing to read.

On most continents, I can be very effective with the tankbuster but only by taking maximum advantage of terrain so that I remain out of line of sight of the enemy that I am "hunting" as long as possible. Remaining out of LOS is most important against skyguards; I find that most MBT's and non skyguards are focused on ground targets and simply don't look for libs. This is probably because liberators tankbusting tanks is so uncommon that it is low on their threat list. However, this also means that I don't need to be a vulture, I can basically engage any tank that has his turret facing forward and rear facing towards me. I frequently dive down on tanks that are next to other tanks if I know that I have a good exit strategy that will get me to cover before the other tanks can react and hit me with their main cannons (sometimes they get shots off, but they are usually surprised and mostly miss).

If I was a "vulture" with "no point or role in this game" i would be going for wounded vehicles that aren't doing anything important, but that isn't the case. Sure, I will finish off smoking tanks, but I also kill tanks from full health simply because they aren't paying attention well enough. However, this requires a high level of afterburner, lots of experience knowing what I can get away with, the ability to fly VERY close to the ground without hitting anything (this is one of the trickiest parts; sometimes I do bump a wing on something and often times it instagibs my lib). The other tactic is to dive down on a tank from high above and then line up a tankbust on the rear, and then afterburn up as fast as possible to get out of their main cannon angle. However, if there are other tanks farther away you become a prime target for them, and if there is flak anywhere within a thousand meters it is going to see you and start shooting you.


One other practical use of the tankbuster is destroying sunderers. A tankbuster can't oneclip a sundy, but it can wound it severely and allow it to be killed by something else even if multiple engies are repairing it. It also brings down the shield in one burst. The tankbuster is situational, yes, but it is far from useless. And of course it is also good at destroying large air targets like gals and other libs.