[Vehicle] Tank buster 7000 certs!

Hey mister piper! Haven't I proven that cert farming and balance are not the same thing? Your whole cert farming argument does not have anything to do with the problem at hand: A weapon capable of one-clipping or 2-clipping any ground vehicle, regardless of his awareness (some people like to bring that up, as if being aware that a LIb is about to rip away 75-100% of your life is going to reduce damage).

So please, go pipe somewhere else, you overexaggerate and are wrong on most of your arguments, if your arguments are even about the point we are talking about. If you want to stop cert farmers, make a thread about it, don't try to mess other threads up with irrelevant things that are bothering you.

A Walker Harrasser only really becomes good when you have an AA max in the back. Otherwise it's just as bad as a walker on every other platform, even if it can give chase to an ESF.

oh for god sake, just remove the tank buster.
Running a solo tank with walker on top gun is not an very good option, ive tried it.
And vs any solo lib, he will rip you apart. he can move around, your stuck in your gunner seat.

yes the tankbuster name is very fitting, but thats not the issue. that gun should be removed from the game entirely!
and even tho the basic tankbuster only cost 100 certs, its to darn cheap. does any ap turrets or main gun cost that?

And not to mention, do any other tank do one clip kill even tho you mastered the aim?

I'm not wrong because I don't get killed by those things. So this is apparently a L2P issue and not a balance one.

Look, i want to know out of curiosity, what's the damage reduction from being aware that a Lib is about to clip you? As being on the move can only help you avoid a small portion of the damage, unless the Lib pilot allows you to escape underneath him, forcing him to level off and fly away before he rams the ground. The only vehicle with even close enough speed to be able to effectively dodge the Tankbuster is the Harasser, but you can still chase him down and kill him.

The AP titan is effective against armor, but even that thing can't one-clip anything. The only vehicle that comes close to the Lib TTK is a deployed 1/2 AP Prowler that shoots someone in the back. You could say "but you can get a gunner". Well, the Lib can get a gunner, and that gunner can also deal tremendous damage. But that's not the point is it? The Liberator can, solo, outdamage almost any weapon in any circumstance but one, by a large margin.
Actually, let's follow your train of thought: "it cannot be faulted for being effective against armor". So let's give the Skyguard the ability to one-clip Liberators with composite armor. Can't fault it for that can we? It's specifically designed as an anti-aircraft weapon.
Oh, and let's let all AP cannons be able to kill other tanks with just 2 shots, can't fault it for that can't we? It's designed against tanks! And unlike the Tankbuster they cost 1000 certs. Even with a 2-hit the Magrider would have a similar TTK as the Tankbuster, but that's balance for you right?
And were you one of the players that cried against HE weapons? You can't fault an anti-infantry weapon for being good against infantry can we? So let's buff the AOE to twice that of before the nerf!

So? If the redeemer spawned in every continent once an hour, you wouldn't be killed by it either as the chance of you specifically being killed by it is small. Would that weapon be fair? Capable of killing 5 or 6 tanks in one go along with any infantry inside the AOE? Absolutely not.

The fact that a weapon isn't used much or isn't killing you doesn't mean it isn't OP. The Tankbuster outperforms just about any AV weapon with it's TTK, it's also a much, much better option that the other two guns you have available, meaning there's no real choice to be made as it's a straight upgrade without any real downsides, where every other utility and weapon tries to be a sidegrade.

Pure conjecture. Its just as possible a lib can get lucky and shouldn't be able to.

Basically, if the tank that I am trying to hit in the rear turns even halfway through the tankbust, it will often prevent me from killing it in the first pass. If I have a gunner this isn't an issue and the gunner will just finish him off, but if I do not have a gunner that means I have already been discovered and if I try to dive again other tanks in the area will shoot me. Alternatively I can try to seat swap and finish with the dalton, but this is super risky if there are other tanks in the area that have a firing angle on me.

As for the rest of your post, you are failing to take into account the fact that the liberator must get VERY VERY close in order to oneclip; making a skyguard able to oneclip a lib from 800 meters away would be totally absurd; the skyguard has a much longer engagement window and a much larger effective range than the tankbuster. I wouldn't even mind it being able to do more damage to a lib at the same range that a liberator can oneclip a skyguard.

Literally all you need to do is get two skyguards and put them back to back and you can deter 2 liberators easily. Neither can be oneclipped because the other is in the way, and no matter what angle the liberators approach from they are going to get hit by flak. Combine this with some friendly air in the area and the liberators will stay away if they don't want to die.

Having AP cannons kill other tanks with 2 shots is similarly stupid and also doesn't take into account the extremely short range of the tankbuster. You can't make AP rounds do that much damage because they don't have the insane damage dropoff, cone of fire, and slow velocity of the tankbuster (for a machine gun).

And no, I never cried against the HE cannon. I think it needs a buff and should be effective against infantry, given that tanks cost resources and dying as infantry has literally no impact on a battle because there is no spawn counter/ticket system.

How is this conjecture? I have oneclipped literally hundreds of tanks, and it ONLY works if they don't know that I am coming. The good tankers hear me and turn their tanks or drive to the side when I am too close to yaw, which takes away my firing angle and prevents me from oneclipping them. Most tanks that I kill, however, are simply parked on a hill somewhere farming a spawn room, and 100% do not know I am right behind them. Magriders are especially good at avoiding getting oneclipped if they know the lib is there because they can rotate so quickly. The other time I oneclip tanks often is when they are driving to a battle somewhere in a straight line and not paying attention; if they were they could avoid getting killed by making a quick turn to either the left or the right, which simultaneously prevents their back from facing me AND gets them out of my path so I will often not be able to hit them at all.

I have no idea what you mean by "a lib can get lucky." What does this even mean? What part of diving on an enemy tank and shooting them is luck based? Are you saying that the liberator gets lucky because the tank doesn't notice them? This isn't luck, this is a lack of situational awareness on the part of the tank and proves my point.

Even if you don't hit them in the rear, you have just dealt the highest DPS in the game by far in the lowest amount of time. The fact that this vehicle can one clip a tank from behind is the whole thing we are discussing, not that turning a bit helps protect you. Besides that, my outfit mates usually fire at range with the tankbuster for that nice startup damage. This is especially useful when you go for 2 targets at once: the Dalton/Zepher (yes we do use a Zepher occasionally) attacks one target while the Tankbuster attacks another. 2 clips, bye bye enemy. And in the meantime that Dalton is still gunning for his kill...

Yes, the one-clip is an overused argument, but the fact remains that even without it the Tankbuster out DPS's just about anything by a large margin, and this as a side problem also means that the other two Liberator front canons are basically never used, the Tankbuster is simply much better!

Still missing the point. By utilizing a Tankbuster you can clip into a Skyguard and then have almost any gunner finish them off. The tankbuster outperforms the belly canons that were supposed to be the primary weapons of the Liberator! (as in, it's a bomber not a fighter bomber). And the Skyguard has a total more range, but the Liberator has a much longer range than you seem to realize at which it's still effective and powerful.

1 Lib? Yes, 2 Libs? They annihilate the Skyguards. Seriously, you never really used a Skyguard except for maybe half an hour did you? The highest level character with your name has about 24 vehicle kills on his Lightning, probably not your expertise to use it with a Skyguard is it?

Exaggeration! I object!

It's similarly stupid as the current tankbuster, that's why I made the comparison, I even made sure the weapons were more or less the same effectiveness!

Well good on you! At least something we can agree on. Except for the double AOE part, I think the old AOE was fine and I didn't own a single HE canon (maybe the Lightning but I'm not sure, never really used it)

I know of a way to fix this - keep Tankbuster at 100certs and lib as is, but make it so other guns a "lighter" and thus when equipped - improve handling of Lib. This will give incentive to outfit lib with other guns.

x

If you want to pull out the "you have no time in X vehicle" argument then I do the same to you; you have barely any time in a liberator and can't possibly comprehend what is required to actually tankbust a target. First of all, the maximum damage range is only up to 50 meters away, and after that the damage dropoff is severe. Compounding on that is the massive spread of the tankbuster, which means not only do your rounds do less damage at range, but far fewer of them actually hit. Since you have never used the tankbuster I wouldn't expect you to know this.

It sounds like your outfit mates are making coordinated attacks on people who don't have any AA support, so I don't see why they shouldn't be doing their job of destroying ground vehicles. You have to remember that planetside 2 is a large scale game, so vehicles can't be balanced 1 on 1. If there is an armored column and some of the vehicles have walkers/rangers on them it will keep away most liberators because of the insane range of the walker. In order for a liberator gunner to kill a tank with 2 clips, he either needs to make 2 passes or hover over the enemy target. Both of these make him INCREDIBLY vulnerable to tank cannon fire if the ground forces are paying attention at all. Because of the very short range of the tankbuster the pilot must get VERY close, which means any other tanks in the area (and perhaps the one he is targeting) can hit him with a tank cannon.

It only outDPS's things at very short range. If you had ever used the tankbuster you would know that even just beyond that range it is almost useless. It REQUIRES you to get within dangerous distances of enemy armor to even have a chance of oneclipping anything.
The other liberator nose cannons are not used because they are poorly designed, and don't fit the proper use of an aircraft. There is a reason planes IRL all have rotary cannons with high rates of fire (if they have cannons at all); because of the speed of aircraft they only have a very short time on target and must be able to put as many bullets downrange in that time as possible. The Vektor has a pitiful rate of fire, and is only theoretically viable for very long range engagements with the liberator. However, because of the way liberators handle it is actually pretty damn hard to aim at range.
The spur does even less damage than the Vektor, and really has no purpose even with the mouselook aiming. What SOE SHOULD have done was make the Vektor able to be aimed with mouselook with the current damage/ROF profile; then it might have some use.

The liberator isn't a bomber. Where does it ever say it is a bomber? This is PS2, not PS1. The liberator is a GUNSHIP, and is filling a role similar to the A10 in real life, which has a rotary cannon as its primary weapon as well as bombs and missiles to aid in destroying vehicles (although it doesn't have them operated by a second person)

Second, if you had experience in a liberator you would know that a skyguard firing at the bottom of a liberator dramtaically decreases the ability of the gunner to see ANYTHING, and often kills their framerate. To finish off the skyguard they basically have to fire blind where they think the vehicle was. Anyway, why shouldn't a more expensive 2 person vehicle designed to take out armor not be able to kill a 1 seat, cheaper ground vehicle?

And don't talk to me about not realizing the liberator's range; I know pretty much every thing there is to know about it very well. I am not sure how you, someone who has barely any time in a liberator, would know this better than me... We are talking about the TANKBUSTER here, not the liberator as a total package. The liberator might have more range than the skyguard if you take into consideration the walker and shredder (The dalton is hard to aim at range unless the lib is standing still), but WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE TANKBUSTER HERE. And again, if you want to compare complete vehicles the liberator costs more, takes more people to operate, and is designed to destroy armor. A solo lib has pretty limited range when compared to a skyguard.

You seem to be operating under the incorrect assumption that a skyguard is supposed to be a hard counter to a liberator. It isn't. Ground based AA is a deterrent that can effectively drive air out of an area when it is used properly. The hard counter to liberators is ESF's. I know people think ESFs are for farming infantry, but they are REALLY for establishing air superiority and preventing liberators from killing their allied armor. Once again, PS2 is a LARGE SCALE game that requires LARGE SCALE tactics. You can't cry just because a liberator killed your skyguard when you were sitting in the middle of nowhere with no support. You want to drive away the air? Make an AA nest and try to use some STRATEGY instead of whining.

I have gone up against skyguards in libs enough times to know exactly what their strengths and weaknesses are, and I rarely engage 2 skyguards, and never if they are facing opposite directions. I don't see how any of that requires me to have used a skyguard (although I have, just not much because I prefer to deal with enemy air from the air).

If you take 2 skyguards and put them back to back (and the people in them don't suck), the liberators will likely go somewhere else because it isn't worth the pain and risk of killing the skyguards. I never said that the two skyguards would be able to KILL the libs, since that isn't what they are for. If you park these skyguards in the middle of an open area the libs won't be able to come at you from cover, and they will probably deem it too risky of a target to attack. I know I would.

Also, I have 169 vehicle kills as a lightning on my main character, so I don't know where you are getting your numbers from.

The tankbuster isn't stupid. If it is so overpowered, why does barely anyone use it? Why do so few people have the auraxium medal on it when compared to literally every single tank cannon? Why do I see liberator pilots hovering above targets and letting their gunners do all the work instead of tankbusting them if it is so massively overpowered? I'm sorry, but the numbers simply don't back up your argument AT ALL.

I'm going to break it down, by the facts provided by you people getting killed by the thing.

1. Getting killed right out of the warpgate.

As I said, why not look up before coming out? Then killing the Lib while remaining invincible?

2. Getting shot up while traveling on the road.

You were bound to die from a mine, also roads have no cover.

3. Staying away from cover due to C4 issues.

Get a new secondary gunner (if you're a lightning getting nailed by a TB, you're just bad)

4. Getting nailed while out in the open with nowhere to go.

You done messed up. You wouldn't be caught out in the open on foot, you don't do it in tanks either.

The fact that a weapon isn't used much, but works well means its a niche weapon. Niche things do really good at one thing, and suck at everything else. In this case its killing clueless zerglings who don't know how to watch a 3 dimensional environment or are distracted. Either way, its a learn to play issue.

So take personal responsibility. For once in your life.

"by you people", very funny.

Meh, can happen, but that's not the problem. This is just an example of the power of a Liberator, despite being at the Warpgate and you having the ultimate cover nearby (a massive painfield+shield for tanks to hide behind) it can kill you.

So you basically are saying "it's balanced because you will die anyway"? You are also saying "it's balanced because you have no cover to hide from it" with this, very nice sentiment.

Insults do not form a good argument, besides, we've already established that the AA secondaries are not exactly good againt any air, especially a Liberator. And it also means that your argument is "get a secondary gunner against C4 issues as the AA primary isn't good enough to hold back the Lib".
Also, we already talked about cover for tanks not being readily available at all. So why did you bring this broken argument up again?

Eh... There's a whole continent that's out in the open. It's called Esamir, ever been there? Or did you look at Northern Indar? So basically you are saying "if you played on these continents it was your own fault for being instakilled by a weapon. This means it's not OP (despite the fact that this is the whole reason why it is OP).

Great, so you basically tell us "it's your own fault" instead of going into the matter at hand. We are discussing that the TB is too powerful, in case you hadn't noticed. All you did was provide rather bad ways to avoid it rather than balance it or provide any arguments why it's not OP. But all your arguments boil down to "Yes, it can annihilate anything in it's path, but since it's not taken a lot and there's some very lame ways that might keep you safe it's suddenly not a problem".

Since you didn't get the Redeemer metaphor, Imagine if one guy in the game got a pistol that can OHK anything. It won't be taken much (compared to other weapons) and since it's one guy that's not online all the time etc there won't be unlimited kills on his stats. Oh, you can hide from it behind cover! Does this mean it's not OP? Ofcourse not! It's OP as hell!

Balance should never revolve around the carelessness or ignorance of players. Period.

I could make the same argument against BASR as you are against the TB. Because in every case that you listed that a TB would kill a vehicle the BASR would kill infantry. But I won't because I don't believe that either are OP and its ridiculous. TB is good at what it does. I give it that. But OP? OP means there is no counters. There's plenty of counters.

The issue you have is you refuse to use or find them. That's not my problem and that's not the Dev's problem. That's your problem, a problem you can fix.

Yes.....Do we often? Not every time no...alot of times they get away. But we usually chase them. Basically they get so annoyed they just leave. The problem with doing that stuff in VR is it only gives you the idea of a fresh engagement. In reality out in the field...most things have taken some damage. Believe it or not the Walker is pretty effective against sundies as well. You would be shocked at how much damage it does. My walker on my Harasser has 90 rounds in a clip, we carry almost 3k spare ammo.

They do go faster than us...but we kept it in sight range. Drove from Indar Ex to the northern biolab and chased it toward the warpgate before loosing sight close to the warpgate. Sadly we did not kill it no. It was able to stay at extreme range. But the lib never showed back up to Indar Ex. And I'm not exactly sure most libs rock Afterburner. At least..I don't. I run flak so I can Fly into the face of single AA maxses an TB them

Tell ya what, next time I decide to do some harasser runs with my walker. I will stream it.

It wasn't a 1v1 ...he attacked a lighting and we zoomed in to help. *** shots...one clip was enough to suck about half his armor and get the kill. I could have proved it but sadly we have played a few days since then and it's down on our kill history

Ultimately the best way to get good at using the walker or fighting aircraft is knowing how to fly. IAs for your other post, I agree on a tank...the walker at best is a deterrent I agree 100%. But it is up to you as the driver not to get yourself into a situation a lib can sneak in behind you and get a butt shot. Sometimes...it not always possible that is the risk of playing a game. But my point is...if three tanks had a Walkers on them you wouldn't need to really worry about aircraft for the most part. It's called teamwork. It sucks if you don't have it...but this is an MMO if you don't have teamwork you can only blame yourself for not finding a team. *shrugs*

That is your problem right there...if you are running a solo tank... That is just silly. So you just solo tank and wonder why you are getting snuck up on and TBed?

Yes and no, but there is a limit you can set to the situational awareness of players. In theory it's possible to see a deep-cloaked infiltrator at 300m. But the developers made it so that it's very, very hard to do so, if not impossible. So the balance is based partially on the carelessness of players. This includes base design. There's a limit of places and ways you can look at to spot and engage enemies in time. This especially counts for chokepoints where you come through one small area but there's tons of places where the enemy can stand and hide to shoot at the chokepoint.

Also, this doesn't have anything to do with the whole argument. We are talking about the TankBuster, a 100 cert weapon that can outdamage almost any weapon by a large margin when attacking vehicles. Even the belly cannon, the weapon that's supposed to be what the Liberator is about, is weaker than the TB.

The difference is the TTK, abilities and usage. A sniper rifle can OHK people, but in CQC this is tough to do regardless of ADS or hipfire. There's plenty of ways and danger that makes the sniper rifle perform close to other weapon systems.
The TB is a weapon that's much, much more powerful than even it's own belly canons, which is what the Liberator is supposed to be about (a bomber).

Also, "OP" means "OverPowered". Imagine if the TR got an LMG that's got incredible hipfire accuracy, almost no COF increase, 900 RPM and 374 damage per bullet (or whatever that damage tier does) with low damage falloff, a 100 bullet magazine and 1 second reload. This weapon would definitely be OP, it's got more power (OverPower) than any other weapon. Oh, there's plenty of counters. You can stab them, shoot them before they see you, use a shotgun in their face etc. But the weapon remains OP. Counters can help make things balanced, but they aren't the sole reason for balance of a weapon.
Oh, and the counters you gave us are pretty much useless, so why did you use it again?

I haven't refused to find them, you just try to talk the problem away.

The damage dropoff is large in total, but it degrades gradually across 250m. The tankbusters spread is very manageable (as claimed by several of my outfit mates) and while it spreads out quickly in the beginning, it doesn't spread out overly much.
Just check this video as example:

The spread is there, but it's not a massive shotgun spread that you make it look like. Also this shows Taemien how his "awareness" falls apart. Where could half of those vehicles have hidden itself? Some had actually hidden itself between his precious trees, but they were killed anyway.

Oh, and even with that spread the TB remains a problem. It's the damage it can do in one clip that we are talking about.
Just look at the 44 ammo clip used in the video. at 143 damage per round (max range) you have dealt 6292 damage. With top armor damage reduction and weapon specific damage reduction you have (6292*0,59)*0,42=1559 damage actually dealt
As a comparison, Prowler AP (with the most DPS per magazine) deals (2500*1,15)*0,42=1207,5 damage. So even at maximum range you deal more damage in one salvo than the Prowler, who's more likely to hit the front and doesn't get more damage from being nearby.
But at maximum range of 300m even tanks often don't engage eachother. Seeing that the engagement range of the TB is variable and I estimate between 200 and 20m depending on how close you start your run, this isn't a big problem for the Liberator. In fact, to avoid ESF's (the primary death cause for Liberators aside from ramming the terrain) you are better off flying as the one in the video does (which my outfit mates do constantly). You can avoid Flak and lock-ons as well by doing so, as you will appear to them much later and they have less time to fire. The only drawback is that tanks have more time to fire at you.

On the contrary, AA support is what we like to attack before we take out the rest. And it's usually a matter of "find them, kill them". Even with 2 Skyguards we often can kill one, get away and return for the other after some short repairs.

Oh, and we already discussed that AA is pretty much the least fun to play with the least rewards and unless you spam it the least effectiveness in killingpower. Especially against Liberators.

If it did half the damage it does now, it could still perform it's job of destroying ground vehicles admirably. This is what we've been discussing. We aren't talking about the Tank Buster being good at it's job, we are talking about it being too good at it's job.

And that still means that a weapon that is clearly outside of the normal damage for cost+expenditure ratio, not to mention the fact that it's not the main role he's using, can still be balanced. Imagine if it could OHK a tank with one pellet at any range, would that mean that it's OK just because "vehicles can't be balanced 1 on 1 because of the large scale game"? Ofcourse not! This is a hollow argument. Looks good on the outside, but it doen't mean anything at all for the actual thing we are discussing.

Oh, so if there's half a dozen Walkers around, this weapon becomes balanced? Sure! What the hell kind of argument is this? The Tank Buster itself is simply incredibly powerful, too powerful compared to any other vehicle's capabilities and it's own AV belly cannon.

Yeah, like the Prowler! The moment it comes in, what, 250 to 200m range? The Tank Buster gets a higher DPS even when reload speed is considered.
Oh, and you have a much different perspective of "close range" than I have.

And it can, and it does, and the rewards are much higher than the risks. I can go on, the Tank Buster would perform well enough with half it's current damage output as a alpha strike weapon, after which the belly canon can finish it off.

Allright, it's a gunship, my bad. Let's look at what the site has to say about them: "as well as nose and tail-mounted auto-cannons to tear apart aircraft". Funny, you just told us how those canons weren't suited for ground combat. The Tankbuster should ofcourse be good against tanks, but then the fact remains that it's too good.
You know, you can avoid your whole argument of "but at range it's bad" by giving it a lower maximum damage (say, 250, still a ton od damage), and giving it a much lower damage dropoff and/or spread. The game is supposed to be fun, and regardless of who's right we could find a solution that we both can agree on. Whatever you say, the Tank Buster is simply too powerful in it's current state. It needs adjusting. If we can adjust it that it becomes better at range and more usable, would you agree with that? It would have to sacrifice it's incredible OHK ability, but that would also mean the weapon becomes more in-line with other weapon systems, as in, every other weapon system.

Oh, I know about that, that's why we use things like "tactics" to avoid them at first, then blow them up. If that's not possible you line up the shot beforehand, Q-spot as they start firing and just keep that little icon in the screen, fire your rounds and let the belly gunner take care of the rest.

Says the guy who brings up tank columns with Walkers. Yes, we are talking about the Tank Buster! Glad you realised! And regardless of everything you've said, any weapon as mobile and capable as the Tank Buster on the Liberator should not be able to wield such power.

The Skyguard, the strongest dedicated ground-based Anti-Air vehicle, doesn't even come close to the power of the Tank Buster. This is one of the things I already signaled: the Tank Buster itself is simply much, much more powerful. oh, and 2 Skyguards cost more and have 2 people to operate them, the tail-gunner of the Lib will be discounted due to not having AV specific weapons unless you count the AI Bulldog with capabilities against light armor. But 2 Skyguards can die to the Liberator, despite a higher cost, higher total health and armor, the same amount of operators and they are both build to destroy the other.
As for the range. Yes a Skyguard has range, it also has problems with terrain, DPS and lack of a skill-ceiling. A Liberator can create openings and attacks by outmaneuvering the Skyguard and killing it. Even on Esamir, where terrain can often not be used to great advantage to get close to the Skyguard, you can just go to the Skyceiling and drop from there to kill them. I might not have a long piloting time in a Lib, I do have a lot of gunning time in Libs on various characters, so I do know how it goes.

The AA discussion is something completely different. The fact that AA is only a deterrent is already one of the biggest mistakes in the game. The skill-lowering stuff like Flak and Lock-ons need to go to make all battles equally accessible to aircraft, but at the same time the AA needs to be capable of killing all aircraft if you have the skill to hit.

Let's look how the game works:
Infantry has a "hard counter" in just about anything. All small arms, nosecannons and HE cannons are hard counters. And just about any other weapon can still be used effectively against aircraft. As you can see, there's counters available on infantry, tanks and aircraft.
Tanks have a "hard counter" in all AV weapons. C4, tank mines, Rocketlaunchers, HEAT, AP, Hornets etc. They are all effective to a degree, depending on capabilities and the like. So infantry, tanks and aircraft can all counter a tank.
Now your Liberator. All AA is a deterrent, as you said, and the only hard counter is ESF's. Why is this fair? Every other vehicle can be countered by infantry, tanks and air, but the liberator only by air.

where are your large scale tactics when the only tactic available is taking an ESF? Combined arms is a term often used, but you can't use combined arms if you can basically only use ESF's effectively against certain unit types.

I don't see how this helps you. If this is true, than being in a Skyguard should give me enough experience when dealing with Liberators doesn't it? (or any other unit type that deals with Liberators). If it isn't true, than my experience still counts for something. Besides that it's not talking about the TB's incredible ability to deal so much damage in one go.

You know what happens if you put 2 Skyguards back to back? every infantry and ground vehicle will say "oh, juicy targets" and try to kill them. That's one of the premier problems of Skyguards, while a Lib has a very good oppertunity to fight off aircraft, but the Skyguard is basically a sitting duck that needs constant support to stay safe.

I can only guess what your main character is, so I looked for a name similar to your forum handle:
https://www.planetside2.com/players/#!/5428059527738588993/vehicles

It's OP for the abilities it has. By changing the damage to different values and reducing the amount of damage falloff the weapon's usage will be more in-line with every other vehicle in the game. Also, it should just cost you 1000 certs if it can outdamage your AV 1000 cert weapon.

I really don't have the time to go in and argue each individual point with you again, and I can see that I am not going to change your mind. My opinion is that the liberator works in the overall balance of the game. It is powerful 1v1, but it is easily countered. I find myself countered all the time by 1-2 ESFs (depending on skill level). I also get the hell out of an area if there is flak present. I believe that AA is effective because I personally stop attacking targets in an area when the flak picks up BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO DIE. I don't care what your statistics say; I know that flak in this game is effective at area denial.

And before you say this is just me being bad keep in mind I have over 15 days in a liberator across my characters. I don't know why you thought that the Mjolnir character was me given that my stats are RIGHT IN MY SIGNATURE. Is it not showing up for you or something?

Anyway, you can't convince me that my opinion regarding the tankbuster spread being a considerable disadvantage is wrong; I have 1000 more kills on the tankbuster than any other weapon and you can be damn sure by now I know its strengths and limitations as well as the "guys in your outfit" that are telling you these things.

Anyway, this discussion isn't going anywhere and no one from SOE even reads these forums anyway, so I don't really see any further need to argue this with you. It's not like they are actually going to change anything anyway.

I don't look at signatures, they usually aren't interesting, I treat them like any advertisement on sites, you see they are there, but you just don't know the contents. I just took a quick peek at the most likely name you would have (Mjolnir), this search did not come up with the name Mjollnir (try this yourself), if it did I would have looked at that one as the highest.

So you have 1000 more kills with the TB than any other weapon, but despite that it's balanced due to it's limitations? I had the same discussion once at the game's Launch. Rocketpods were real lolpods, capable of killing entire squads when spawning at Sunderers. They could farm away as they pleased. But those guys also said "it's balanced and working as intended, I have more experience than you with it so I am right".
Oh, and looking at your killboard right now the TB shows how "ineffective" it is. Just look at the kills that happen within a minute. If there's multiple there it's most likely to be a vehicle that was destroyed with it's occupants. And you kill off a ton of vehicles in quick succession, much faster than any other vehicle would ever be able to. This isn't balanced in any way, this is a 100 cert weapon outperforming the best 1000 cert AV weapons available in the game.