Take off Forward Grip from your Pulsar C (thx Wrel!)

I haven't performed any calculations for burst carbines.

this is so disheartening... Ive been using frd grip on a bunch of these since launch!

the hell... this makes no sense at all.... sigh

Like I said deeper into the thread, this is not confirmed by in-game testing. I've only tested NS-15M recently, but from what I remember from my older testing, the Pulsar C is probably the single case where forward grip is actually harmful.

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The Pulsar Compact was my very first weapon to aurax,i generally don't have any recoil issues while putting AFG on it,i used to kill people miles ahead from me with it

Damn if this all turns out to be true, this is pretty big. All those grip certs should be refunded until its retweaked.

This sort of confirms a back in my mind 'tick' that I've experienced over the years. Whenever I trial a weapon and it has no certs in it, I always seem to kick *** with it. Much more than I do when I buy it and use it for a few days and weeks. I always attributed to beginners luck, or just being more cautious due to using an uncerted weapon.

I'm going to have to test this myself. I've got all of the NC weapons in that list.

The problem is, you may simply not know any better. If you're like me and many others.. you throw forward grip on and get to town, learning the 'faulty' recoil pattern and getting used to it.

I'm surprised by the number of 4 kicks mentioned. It should be 3 in the principle:

With a Tolerance of 0.3-0.05= 0.25, and recoil of 0.11725, you get past the tolerance value after 3 shots and not 4, since at 3 shots you're at 0.35175. So horizontal arc actually increases by 0.5% with a grip, from 0.7 to 0.7035.

I actually calculated all those values on my own (raw values + number of shots to effective tolerance cap between stock and grip), and made a google spreadsheet for myself+outfit some time ago. Updating it right now with directive guns and burst novelties, so as to share it here with all proper values. But yes there's a fair share of guns actually penalized by high tolerance values with a grip, probably mostly VS by the way (oooh VS godly accuracy where art thou?).

Though in reality the one that's most penalized is actually the NC6 Godsaw (increase by 12% of the horizontal arc). Oddly enough i've been talking about those values for some time, and almost nobody cares about tolerance, in spite of it heavily affecting some guns, notably Pulsar VS1 family.

You can't go past tolerance.

then daf***c u are posting this s**t here?

I guess this might explain why VS ARs in general feel odd when using them. I notice a distinct lack of Terminus on that list which is naturally the best VS AR in general.

As noted by OP not actually tested in game though.

Wow. I use FG's pretty religiously on my loadouts nowadays so this is big. Whenever I newly bought a weapon then started playing and putting attachments on it, I always felt as I added attachments the weapon got "more inaccurate/recoil-ey". I always just kind of figured "well I just suck is all, there's no way I was better with a stock weapon". I assume the difference is so minuscule that I never really noticed it, I always just figured it was the r.n.g. giving me a bad roll. Don't get me wrong, it isn't like I noticed this outright, but something on those weapons "felt off" and I never knew why. I mean, if this turns out to all be false then I'll know it's just me being silly but if not...it's good to know I'm not crazy.

Bump to spread to the word.

He is using weapon stats which are very accurate. So there is almost no need for testing. And learn how to not swear idiot...

I just did a test on the weapons highlighted in Blue (don't have the Gauss SAW S actually, and forgot to test the Stalker). It appears that they have very similar patterns to what Iridar has been showing thus far in the thread on the Pulsar.

My test was to fire at a man silouette in the VR to the left side starting at the center and Aiming Down Sights (ADS) and letting it drift in the direction it wanted to go. And then equipping the Forward Grip or Advanced Forward Grip (if available) and doing the same to the right side.

I used Compensator for both sides if the weapon had it and 2x Reflex Sights.

Every weapon but the EM1 was very noticeable when I ran this test. But even the EM1 displayed a sway that it shouldn't have had and didn't have without it.

My analysis is that the Forward Grips are pretty much coming off of all my weapons at this point after I do a little more testing (like on the Gauss SAW, Guass Rifle, Burst weapons, and Gauss Compact S). It is a straight up downgrade it seems with no real benefit.

* EM6 wasn't originally on the list, but I tested it and found that it had the same issue. There's something really wrong with the Forward Grips. I recommend everyone testing their weapons. All of them that use them.

To raise awareness to a potential issue. This is a scientific process, if you don't want to be a part of it nobody's forcing you to be in this thread.

Because he may not have all weapons in that list. How many do you know that have an A-Tross Assault Rifle? I'm like the only person I know that does.

Uhm, I'm not sure your way of testing is accurate. The issue is with number of kicks in one direction, and whether is forward grip affecting it.

To get precise results, you need to record a video of crosshair movement during sustained fire, like this, and then watch it frame by frame and document all recoil kicks, so you get something like this. I actually use a square lined exercise book.

If the number of kicks increases, like in case with the Pulsar C in the OP, then we have a problem.

Shooting training targets in VR and watching at bullet holes won't yield anything conclusive.

So far Pulsar C is actually the only confirmed case, and I have a strong hunch it will remain so. There's just something fishy with HRT and the number of kicks. It's hard to theorycraft for a system we don't really know inner workings of.

Uhm.. VR training?

Here are my thoughts. This is not so detrimental as some of you my think. Think about it. Before you knew about this issue, you did not even know it existed. You didnt feel those extra kicks to the left or right, before Wrel made a video about it. So it is almost like a placebo effect!

I still belive Forward grip is the way to go on some of these weapons, because it still makes the gun easier to handle. Sure you get an extra kick, but they are smaller and dont move out so far.

This is you border (horizontal recoil tolerance) without the grip:
I---*---I

And with the grip:
I--*--I

You see its smaller, even tough there will be more kicks they will be clumped together more!! And there is no need for them to go all the way to the right and left (they can go 1 left, 1 right, 1 left, 1 right....!!!!)



As for Pulcar C: It is already one of the best carbines, far better than Razor and Cougar. It has better RoF (+25), better Recoil (no angle and just 0,175 Hz recoil with 0.3 Hz recoil tolerance)
THIS IS THE BEST/PERFECT RECOIL PATTERN IN THE GAME!!! I belive no other gun has such an easy recoil pattern.

It looses on bullet velocity, but that is more of a secondary attribute. It still has 550 M/s. And its vertical recoil is 0,4 but that is easier to compensate for.
Not to mention it has more damage per magazine compared to all other VS carbines.


All in all it is an interesting thing we discovered, but it is not so bad.

Here is a PS2 Weapon Data Sheet if anyone wants some data: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...OSWNaanFqSUVxLWc&f=true&noheader=false&gid=92

So, is there a way to get a dev statement on this? I mean, I'm not sure if this is intended by them to keep FG's as a "sidegrade" along with the longer equip time or if this is generally just an overlook that needs fixing. It'd be good to try and get their two cents.

i don't know if you can test this as well, in my experience most weapons have a smaller kick/bloom with iron sights
even in comparison with the 1x scope and the iron sights giving a 1.35 magnification
if i know i will be fighting at close to mid range i use iron sights if they don't block my view

What makes you so certain?

Up to that point i went with what DarthGr3g said about it in his original reddit post:

The only thing i wasn't sure about was his methodology when horizontal recoil is variable, because we simply don't know how it works, and i couldn't have BBurness tell me precisely.

Anyway, as promised, here is the spreadsheet i made. It's a list of all standard auto primaries(+burst carbines/rifles +Lasher +MCG) ordered by horizontal arc with grip (when grip available), with number of shots to reach or get past tolerance cap (within DarthGr3g's statement perimeter as quoted above): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nOc2cjYpLaCwpR3VENG37hDy_k5HJ5L2HXBuAaad1kU