[Suggestion] Take Away the Rocket Launcher from the HA

Discussion in 'Heavy Assault' started by Thunderbug, Nov 11, 2014.

  1. Thunderbug

    The Heavy Assault is supposed to be the premier 1v1 infantry on infantry class fine, fair enough I can deal with its I win shield, but giving him the rocket launcher as well just makes the HA way to versatile and the overall best class. Asymmetrical class design is good but all classes must be equally useful.

    Interior Fights - HA due to its 1v1 anti infantry power
    Exterior Fight - HA due to the need to have rocket to kill vehicles

    The Medic is useful to revive the HA, the Engineer is useful to feed to the HA ammo.
    Infiltrator isnt really useful as it dosnt benefit the HA in anyway.
    LA isnt really useful as it dosnt benefit the HA in anyway.

    The HA is so good due to its power + versatility that I judge every other class' usefulness based on how much having them around will benefit the HA players. If I want a bit of a fun mess around but am not bothered about seriously playing the game I will use the LA and Infiltrator, otherwise ill use the HA or classes (Med/Eng) that support the HA in some way.

    So who do you give it too? Well giving the rocket to the Infiltrator or LA wouldn't make sense from a logic point of view and it would force people to play mostly useless classes which is a bad idea while the Medic fills a large enough role already. Giving it to the Engineer makes sense from a logic point of view and it would help flesh out the Engineers role as walking ammo crates.

    A group of 100 people with a 6/2/2 ratio of HA/Med/Eng would be hard to beat as you have your op class backed up by two classes that make the op class even better.
  2. Auzor

    It is too late for that now.
    I play HA precisely because of the versatility, and because it is indeed the only class that brings a ranged anti-vehicle option from the start.

    Switching it now... well, I've unlocked LMG's and RL, spent some certs on the heavy's shield and nanoweave armor.. suddenly that's mostly wasted?

    The Engineer has a ranged AV option, the turret. (locked behind 1000 cert unlock iirc).

    Overall, I say a RL fits the assault class quite nicely.
    If anything, I could see LA receiving the choice of a more expanded toolset: the default RL, one of the lockon RL, but not the decimator,
    or a weaker shield etc. This would come in place of medkits or C4; so there is a tradeoff.

    Now, LA+ RL has some potential, but would it be worse for tankers than the C4 fairy...
    LA can only fire of RL whilst on the ground, no RL fairy.

    Been editing this post:
    indoor (short range), sure the heavy brings the shield, and LMG's have sustained firepower.
    But, there is quite a selection of carbines and AR out there that does more dps than any LMG; especially at close range.
    And any class can bring an SMG or shotgun(except infiltrator this one)

    Finally: any change-nerf to the heavy, is a buff to the max class.
    Because it is the combo of shield, RL and AV grenade that maxes a heavy a potent counter to a max.
    Take shield away, NC max oneshots the heavy.
    Take RL away.. oh .. bangbang goes the heavy, dead.
    • Up x 4
  3. DatVanuMan

    • Up x 9
  4. Sixstring

    Heavy assault is fine vs infantry BUT a single HA (and LA's with C-4 for that matter) has way,way too much damage potential against vehicles especially considering the range and spammability of the free rockets. I would say reduce the range and damage of rockets AND give them a resource cost so that it would atleast limit an overpopped factions ability to just bombard approaching enemies indefinitely at range completely shutting them down with mass amounts of heavy assaults. This would open up the game so much more and give the different branches more purpose air would be the direct counter to tanks without having to constantly run from all the heavy assault's who would rather take the easy way out and never learn the vehicle game,who instead just spam the overpowered rockets provided for them and tanks could dominate infantry. That way people would HAVE to use vehicles to be successful against vehicles.
  5. DatVanuMan

    What is more powerful?
    A VEHICLE, or a Heavy Assault?
    Which is more precise?
    Or a Heavy Assault's rocket which suffers from immense drop?
    What is more BROKEN?
    A Prowler at range?
    Or a Heavy Assault at medium range?
    • Up x 3
  6. Hosp

    Where did you get this idea? It's a front line bread and butter class, not a specialist (LA/Infil) or Support (Eng/Med)

    That's fallacious thinking. The asymmetrical design is in the cross faction balance not the cross class balance. Also, asymmetry has nothing to do with equality. That would be Symmetry.

    AI power would probably be dominant by MAXs. HA isn't the best AI, it's the most forgiving. I'd argue Medics and LAs are better AI depending on the area the fight is in.

    This is telling me you believe everything should be balanced around HA. Not that everything has a role it fills (better or worse) depending on loadouts.

    Luckily the game doesn't revolve around you. But, you're opinion is just that. And you've taken quite a narrow view based on it.

    My LA begs to differ with your views of usefulness. They are very useful...If you know how to use them.

    Engineer has alot on its plate already. Giving it launchers would completely throw off the Infantry vs Vehicle Balance. We'd have to significantly buff the effectiveness of Launchers and then balance that around what tools/equipment the engineer can carry at any given time. Sure, there'll be alot more Engineers and fewer HAs, but in the end...

    You're not going to die any less because there are less HAs, people are just going to adapt, kill you more, and you'll come back crying to balance something else to your supposed advantage because you can't learn to fight to begin with.
    • Up x 1
  7. Sixstring

    It's not about what's more powerful of course a tank is going to be more durable with more individual killing potential,it's about the game mechanics and you know exactly how this game works. You can't give a single,disposable infantry the potential they have against vehicles right now,not even close because when there are 96+ of them they will completely shut down their aggressors from any of the games major choke points. NOW imagine if the vehicles DOMINATED infantry the zerg doesn't seem so threatening,I see so many spawn locks that could be broken but the defenders know that if they pull their own vehicles they will just be zerged down and it's mainly because of the infantry presence so they don't even try. The game barely works right now because of this and most fights end in a spawn lock,missions with focused vehicle coordination will help with this but in the end there will NEED to be major,meaningful infantry AV nerfs since there are so many variables between the base structures that give mass infantry positional advantage over tanks that have a hard enough time (if they can even) entering most bases. Nerf infantry AV across the board and everything else will fall into place,by making vehicles an actual force multiplier against zergs it would keep both sides in the fight and then it would just be a matter of which side is following their mission support requests.
  8. Thunderbug

    too much no right there.

    Firstly, really? You think the HA is the bread and butter class? Lets for a second take a look at other media and irl. Your bread and butter class is usually light, armed with assault rifle and grenades. You dont see the US army having all their soldiers running around with LMG's and rocket launchers. LMG's are for squad support not johnny rambo mowdowns. Anti Vehicle should be a specialist class.

    The design is in both cross faction and cross class balance. Asymmetry means there is no mirror it has nothing to do with balance. Balance means making sure that your classes are equally useful in their own way and that their difference do not make one class blatantly better than the other like it is now. Symmetry in design and equality in power level (balance) are two very very very different things.

    Maxes are a different thing entirely. While I do not feel they benefit the game, they cost nanites to balance out their incredible power level, were talking about standard classes. LA are the best campers thats about it and the Medic is the best support class, but in terms on infantry vs infantry u need HA.

    No im saying that the HA is by far the most versatile class and can respond to multiple situations much better than other classes and given that fact the most efficient way to organize your "clan" "squad" "platoon" etc etc is to take mostly HA and only taking other classes which directly benefit the HA. My point is exactly that, every class SHOULD have a role to fill (which is strange as you said earlier classes shouldn't be balanced cos thats symmetry but now u want them all to have a role in the game, which you cant do without cross class balance) but currently the HA is the best all rounder class so much so that you only need to take the HA and classes which can directly benefit the HA.

    It all depends on what you want to do in the game, but if I want to be a useful part of base capture or defense I will play the HA or its support classes the Medic and Engineer. If you want to play more solo then the LA or Infiltrator is fine.

    They are fine and u can have success playing them but they are not as strong as the HA and have no support capability like the Med/Eng. If you enjoy playing LA by all means keep playing it but you could contribute much more by getting equally skilled with HA/Med/Eng.

    All the engineer has to do currently is dish out ammo and repair, while occasionally setting up a turret. Its really very easy to play an engineer its just a bit dull and giving it proper AV capability would make it more useful and more fun.

    LOL I dont have a problem in the game, im fairly competent and have improved immensely from when I started, I can generally kill a HA with my Medic unless i get jumped on. Im happy with my KD as it stands, yeah when i started I was bad but now i normally kill a lot more than I die. THATS NOT THE POINT OF MY POST. The point is that their should be some drawback to each class. Medic-Important for healing and reviving but vulnerable while doing its job, Engineer- excellent defensive abilities & support but limited offensive capability, Infiltrator - Stealth and range but limited use in CQC and cloak is not perfect, LA- good mobility but does not excel in any area. Each has their good points but you need to be careful to not get caugh out by your weakness. The heavy assault is just a go to class its universally useful to the point where its superior to other classes, you dont need to have LA,Eng,Med,Infiltrator but you 100% need HA.
  9. Goingback

    Medic vulnerable? Hmm he can always use his "F" heal no matter what.
    Engineer limited offensive? Turrets are mostly offensive. Unlimited ammo...
    Infiltrator.. I see more drawback here than others but this is only my opinion.
    LA - remember there is a lot of trees and mountains so he is also good in area.

    And shortly about HA
    - LMG is not best weapon and this is not an argument
    - There is a lot of things to counter rockets
    - Shields, they just give 0.5-1.0 sec more time (looking at TTK, however TTK is not always a good factor)

    Flashy HA at night.. so usefull... Nvm.
    Why we start it again?
  10. MajiinBuu

    I would love to uncloak and blast someone with a rocket. Rockets aren't primary weapons, so they could be used with the stalker cloak!
    • Up x 1
  11. Hosp

    - This isn't real life. Don't treat it as such.

    And don't try apply your logic to my words to straw-man me. I can do the same to you and it doesn't lead to anything.

    - Balance=/=Equality=/=Asymmetry. And don't tell me what they mean unless you plan on sharing your resume with me.

    - "If you enjoy playing LA by all means keep playing it but you could contribute much more by getting equally skilled with HA/Med/Eng." Link your character and tell me your playstyle. And we can share our styles and people can put in their 2 cents.

    - HA has a drawback. It needs everyone else to keep it going.

    Every class does have a role it fills. But we're going to agree to disagree there as your view is based around the idea that "The HA is a swiss army knife which makes them far to prominent." My view is that "The HAs versatility is necessary and it's balanced out by its reliance on other classes to keep it going."
    • Up x 1
  12. Facade

    I don't think you really are thinking about team play here...an Infiltrator can help HA play. First there is recon darts and motion sensors. They can help get the jump on an enemy and also show the direction they are coming. The second is emp grenades. They can clear mines, enemy motion sensors, and knock out shields and huds on enemies. last they can also place mines to help slow enemies or cripple an enemy.
    • Up x 1
  13. WarmasterRaptor

    Yup. They already are.

    If you think recon tools aren't useful, you're so wrong.

    Smokes from LA not useful? Never combine that with IR/NV scopes, you might do wonders.

    The class IS designed to be against vehicles. And you want remove it's TOOL against it??
    • Up x 3
  14. WarmasterRaptor

    What the hell? You already have to be so close to use the rocket launcher effectively and not dying instantly when tanks shoot at you... sigh...

    A new fotm of nerf the HA has come back... "yay"
    • Up x 1
  15. Doomzzg

    Remove the launchers and all you got left is "Assault"
    • Up x 2
  16. ATRA_Wampa-One

    No, but I would be totally fine with letting Engineers choose between equipping turrets and rocket launchers.
  17. Hosp

    This is something I feel I'm going to copy/paste alot.

    • Up x 2
  18. EIMR

    While HA's incredible power and versatility are something I dread, and I hope for it to be balanced(not nerfed), taking away the rocket launcher it's just stupid. They are supposed to be the guys with the big guns, that's why they are heavy.
  19. EIMR

    While it's true that it would be balanced between the teams, it wouldn't between classes. Everything is based around the HA, which is not balanced. There should be more or less the same need for all classes.
    Also, if everybody is a Heavy, the game would be balanced, but extremely boring and simple. That's why I also say that HA shouldn't be the front line soldier, because they are needed far more, and thus, more people need to be heavy. The game would be much better if there was an equal need for every class. HAs I think, should be more like the Support class from BF, providing more dakka, bringing lots of bullets and explosives, providing suppresion for the team and sometimes kill enemy armor.
  20. Hosp

    Why? Where in the handbook of making video games does it say it has to be balanced that way? Just because you feel it's always been done that way (ie your reference to BF) doesn't mean it 100% has to be does it? While we're at it why don't we change respawns and make it the old Half-life way w/ spawn waves? Why don't we eliminate certs and just spawn vehicles in front of buildings thus limiting the amount of tanks? CoD/BF did that too.

    Just because you want something a certain way doesn't mean it's broken the way it is.

    There may be mechanics and balance methods that worked in other games...but that doesn't mean this balance method is broken. It's different, but it still works. Whether you like it or not doesn't determine if it works. It doesn't mean we can't test it out on PTS. But you know what, I like things the way they are as far as how the classes compliment each other.
    • Up x 1