Surprised by forum reaction to lib update

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by dopy7dvs, Jun 24, 2014.

  1. dopy7dvs

    It's been what, 4 days, since the lib nerf and I have continued to eye the forums for feedback. I've waited until I could form a decent opinion. As one of the players that have spent the most time in the lib I can say this:

    1. It is virtually impossible to kill infantry, with most any belly weapon, without being within 100meters. Zephyr being the easier of all 4, it still takes 4 hits to infantry for kill (not including HS).
    2. MAX virtually impossible to kill even by itself. Especially a competent AA MAX. Quite unsettling.
    3. Belly nerfs to effectiveness vs infantry means a closer engagement. Stock armor revert means if you try, you die.
    4. Ranged engagement with vehicles (beyond 100meters to stay out of effective counter ranges with tanks, AA, etc.) is virtually impossible now due to ammo count nerf.

    For example: I stay low to engage infantry because I can't kill them outside effective range. I go low, I get shot by tanks, AA, rockets, etc. I die

    I stay high and engage vehicles, ESF's. My height then allow for weapon damage fall-off, ineffective targeting, etc. I run out of ammo before I kill anything.

    I'm not whining, just giving feedback. I'm not even sure what to do with the lib anymore. My suggestion would be to, at the very least, bring back the former damage/splash values pre-nerf. With all the other nerfs, this reversion would at least give the lib a fighting chance.
    • Up x 5
  2. Trukk

    So what about the forum reaction surprised you?
    • Up x 1
  3. CNR4806

    So, you're basically saying you're unsatisfied with the Lib update and hold the opinion that SOE over-nerfed the Lib, which is consistent with a considerable portion of the vocal pilot community on the forums.

    What exactly is so surprising?
    • Up x 5
  4. blampoet

    i think he's suprised no one gives a *snip*

    the reason there is no uproar (IMO, of course) b/c the nose gun hasn't be nerf-bat-ed yet.
    wait until the tankbuster can't kill anything... then you'll hear howls of pain and poetry.

    most of the people who pull the lib also pilot it, so they don't feel the full brunt of this *squish goes our favorite toy*, especially as many don't even bother to communicate with their belly...

    I will assume you are also one of the co-op players... so you noticed.
    me, I am a terrible shot, so on the lib- I've always been more busy getting my belly positioned for max effect for my squad underfoot... making me useful firepower for my friends.... for the past 3 days i haven't bothered offering CAS, because it's pointless... i've gone back to rep'ing and rezzing.

    the guys who shot well do it as a HA or from the seat of a lib, makes little difference... this was a role for us "bad" Players... one less... here's hoping the Valkie will come soon.
  5. chrisbeebops

    I'm fine with the Liberator update.

    Shredder AI needed a nerf hard, and removing the splash damage has done it. It is now entirely an AV weapon, and with a great gunner and pilot duo you can still kill infantry with some effort. I was able to kill most Burster MAXs in 1 Shredder clip, which is still pretty good even if a significant nerf from old Shredder.

    Dalton AI got nerfed as well, so it is now (as it should be) a dedicated AV weapon with limited AI potential.

    Zephyr/Duster I haven't played around with much... why would you want to pull an AI weapon when you could kill vehicles instead? :)

    Ammo capacity nerfs just mean any crew who treated the Liberator as a vehicle with a single gun (belly gun) is now significantly less effective, and crews used to just bombing from a few hundred meters up will quickly run out of ammo while not scoring many kills.

    Learn to use the Liberator well as a team, nosegun and bellygun both, and you'll be way more effective. Prior to the ammo capacity nerfs I was usually running out of Tank Buster ammo long before my gunner could fire off 100+ Dalton shells or 2000+ Shredder rounds. Now it has swung the other way but is much, much closer than it was before.
    • Up x 4
  6. Taemien

    I think the Zephyr got too much of a nerf. Just the other day I was running with a group and hear over voice:

    There's a Lib overhead.
    Get lockons ready.
    Oh wait.. its a Zephyr.. ignore it. It can't hurt you.
    Yeah they got nerfed pretty hard.

    And sure enough.. it didn't really do anything.

    Now I do like the idea that the weapons are diversified in their roles now. I'm not keen on the ammo cap nerfs though. That seemed a bit much. But once they start underperforming (especially the Zephyr) we'll see them readjusted.
  7. Levtech

    If the forum reaction is surprising to you, it should not be. It got to the point where if you wanted a tiny buff to the liberator it would start a massive flamewar. I think most people are waiting until a little while after the lib nerf.
    • Up x 1
  8. Greenyblau

  9. Alarox

    The Liberator update did what it needed to do and I'm having much more fun now. The changes are fine and you need to learn to adapt. The Liberator is still viable but is much more balanced.

    -You can't use powerful AV weapon to kill infantry, vehicles, and aircraft effectively at the same time? Welcome to the world of every other vehicle.

    -You can't easily hard-counter your own counter (AA MAX)? Welcome to the world of every other vehicle.

    -You don't get 2-3x the ammo of every other vehicle while retaining the ability to fly making resupply quick and easy? Welcome to the world of every other vehicle.

    I'm glad SOE is finally looking into these things. It is understandable why you're upset as things have been this way for over a year, but now you're going to have to face the reality that the Liberator has so many more advantages over most things and SOE is wising up.
    • Up x 20
  10. -MJ12-

    I think the reason why there is few feedback on the lib nerf is that everyone finally dares to play again, since they have no longer to fear those near-invincible flying fortresses farming them and their tanks.

    Plus, if SOE does something right there are always very few positive responses.
    They only get feedback if they do something wrong.
    • Up x 6
  11. Stormsinger

    This is precisely what I was expecting after the original Lib update a number of months ago. This happened with ZOE, the Harasser, and now the lib, just to name a few. Nerfing overpowered things into uselessness is standard operating procedure, it has been for SOE since original EQ released in the 90s.

    Ignoring all "They just want us to spend more cash / certs" arguments, I simply don't understand why the devs choose to nerf armor, ammo count, cert lines, splash radius, etc all at once. Balance in this game tends to be binary - it sucks, or it rocks. Reducing or buffing one or two things at a time helps to mitigate this, and yet we still see comprehensive changes like this.

    I said it months ago, a minor nerf was needed to prevent the lib being bludgeoned with the nerf-sledgehammer. It was as overpowered before as it is underpowered now.


    Yep, I played for a few hours last night... for the first time in 2 months. Got into a great indar alert on Mattherson, the flow of battle actually kept me playing. A few libs appeared, quite a few... they ate unprotected ground at an acceptable rate, but were able to be exploded by a reasonable amount of AA fire, rather then simply flying off with half armor.

    I'm all for restoring things such as ammo counts, or the tank buster (provided the armor re-nerf stays) ... but I can't tell you how much personal satisfaction I derived from watching Liberator debris rain from the sky.
    • Up x 2
  12. Corporate Thug

    Eventually you will adapt if you're committed. You also have to remember that there are 2 sides to every coin. Lots of ground pounders had to deal with really powerful liberators for much longer than you having to deal with these changes. So, it is possible that they tweak some of the modifications they made or even revert a few of them.
    • Up x 1
  13. Alarox

    If you think the Liberator is even close to useless then you're at a whole new level of relying on your equipment to compensate.

    You have to resupply more often? Your AV weapons aren't effective against every target anymore? You can't hoverfarm infantry or carelessly TB tanks without fear anymore because tank shells and dumbfires are as deadly as they should be?

    People can make Harassers work. They have a fraction of your survivability, cost almost as many resources, and at best they can equip the Halberd for maximum firepower. You have a flying tank that can kill everything in the game and has the highest effective score/hour, kills/hour, and vehicle kills/hour of all the weapons you can put on a vehicle.

    Maybe the Liberator itself isn't the reason you can't use it effectively. That only leaves one other possibility.
    • Up x 7
  14. JibbaJabba

    I held off on my opinion as well. Time has come though...

    The Lib needed a nerf.

    They have overdone it and the liberator is completely useless. I'm not trying to use hyperbole here either. It really is useless. At no time would I ever suggest "hey we need to get some liberators here...". Whatever the job may be, pulling a lib would be a waste of manpower and better accomplished by some other method.

    For context on my opinion: I have fully a *fully* certed lib and know how to use it. I'm primarily an infantry player though.
  15. Mianera

    I honestly still don't see why people aren't getting it yet. So I will explain it. SOE is forcing a new playstyle for aircraft pilots, the nerfs they introduced are meant to do exactly that.

    They are trying to remove the "hover over base/spawn and shoot stuff with thermal" play style while enforcing "Get in quick, unload as much as possible and get out" hit and run play style.

    Aircraft can still be very effective if they do just that, come in fast, bombard/nuke and get out before getting killed.

    Personally... I have to say that I approve although my skills disapprove. It is a completely new play style I have to adapt to but the constant concept of aircraft camping was getting silly so this is the solution to it. Adapt and make it work.

    Unless you are ofc saying that you don't have the skill to rush in a blow up a MBT with a Libby in seconds?

    Fly-by vs camping.

    SOE went with Fly-by's and I support that. I'm sick of people whining over not being able to slack farm in OP vehicles.
    • Up x 11
  16. Stormsinger

    I only played for a few hours last night, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. I'm a fairly good gunner, and i can avoid crashing into most things when piloting... I'll reserve final judgement until I have another few hundred hours in game with libs at their current level of nerf.

    If you recall, I put together a few massive walls of text campaigning about liberator's OPness, and the need for a change. Seeing so many simultaneous nerfs applied to ANY vehicle / weapon / cert line just irritates me to no end.

    And yes, I am against the massive max-ammo nerf. A small reduction would have been fine. The armor nerf has me flailing with glee, they can actually be shot down before they can escape, overextending actually has consequences now.

    Edit: I mainly play ground (All vehicles, VS - I have 5k+ certs in all ground vehicles / aircraft) ... I'm a good battle gal pilot, terrible at ESF, and an average lib pilot / acceptable gunner.
  17. Alarox

    How is the Liberator useless? I'm fine discussing your opinion, but your opinion was "Liberators are useless", which from my perspective is completely insane. I don't see what has changed that has made the Liberator useless.
  18. JibbaJabba

    I get it man.

    That's the way I've always played my lib. I run the high-G airframe and use terrain to avoid groundfire, not altitude. In my view if your gunners aren't about to throw up from all the twisting, turning, and trees skimming by then you're doing it wrong.

    This "new playstyle" is the way I've always played.

    That said: My opinion is now formed. The liberator is nerfed to oblivion. They blew it. It's ruined.

    Like I said earlier though, I'm primarily an infantry player so I'm not crying a river about it. I bet we lose a lot of players from this though. It happens when you wreck someone's fun and rob them of time and cert investment.

    For all those delighted with this: Don't worry, Sony is working it's way down the list. They'll wreck your favorite thing before too long. (They wrecked several of mine long ago).
  19. Paragon Exile

    (This video is so applicable everywhere)

    Lib pilot tears?


    Save me the SOB story; your guns can't endlessly slaughter infantry anymore and you're more vulnerable to some of the easiest to avoid weapons in the game. Suck it up, adapt. They're still superb vehicles.
    • Up x 5
  20. Stormsinger

    I didn't state that it was useless, but I do see that I implied it - sorry if i wasn't all that clear.
    I did , however, state that they are underpowered. The combination of an armor nerf (this was needed - i've been saying this one for months) and the max ammo nerf makes for a great deal of frustration when the changes encourage "Hit and run" strikes. Hitting moving targets from a moving Liberator is quite difficult, so taking a few shots, missing most of them, and being forced to go re-arm makes it undesirable for new players to learn.

    I am perfectly fine with the lib requiring more skill to fly / gun effectively, this is a good thing. Making pilots return for ammo so frequently just makes things boring and time intensive - for a multi person vehicle, where most gunners are random pickups (my own experience, at least) ... it makes cooperative play that much more irritating. I can actually shoot down libs now, i'd be fine with giving them back larger ammo reserves, provided their armor stays where it is.

    If anything, it encourages overextension - if a lib attempts to farm... well, I know where he'll be when I come back with my skyguard. :p