Sundy's vs. Phoenix

You have MANY options.

1: Repair the sundy. A lone HA has no chance of out damaging a single engineer. A squad of HA's is a different story, but an organized squad of anything will defeat a single vehicle, so there is no phoenix specific argument.

2: Place the sundy at 301m. Laugh.

3: Pull a burster max, shoot down the phoenixes. (bonus points, protects the sundy from ESF and libs as well )

This sounds like an AV Turret problem...

This^ I have a number of times been shooting at a sundy and been unable to destroy it because the repair speed of an engi is faster the damage rate of my Phoenix.

It's not until backup arrives to help me that I can take it down.

If you leave a sundy unattended with no engineer to support it then what other out come will there be?

As far as I've heard so far, burster MAXes are atrocious at shooting down missiles as the flak isn't triggered, high ROF carbines are better.

Well, I would like to get a spawn point closer to the cap so our troops aren't sawed down on the way but the Phoenix and the amount of resources and respawn time for another sundy is making that impossible. Bring back the balance and get rid of the ESRLs

> Move beyond 300m argument
If you are spawning troops 300+ away from the target area you fail as a Sunderer. That is too damn far for troops to run under fire.

> Find appropriate cover argument
There IS NO appropriate cover for a TV guided missile that can steer AROUND cover. If you park the sunderer right up against a large rock, you are asking for a light assault to leisurely fly above it and drop C4. Having a user-steerable anti-vehicle weapon in the game changes everything.

Phoenixes are one of the best anti-sunderer weapons in the game, especially when fired by 2+ troops, which is almost always the case as the majority of NC players who cert out their heavies have bought the Phoenix.

Everyone overestimates the Phoenix's turning ability. Firing from behind cover creates a minimum range and large deadzones on an already short range weapon. Firing around someone else's cover requires you to be a certain angle and range from the target.

It's already one of the lowest DPS launchers in game because flight time adds to reload time. You're complaining about a short range launcher with a 10-12 second reload time.

I'm surprised people aren't complaining about Wraith Flashes dropping C4/tank-mine engineers on sunderers. There are far quicker and less counterable ways to kill sunderers than the Phoenix.

Elaborate on this, for I think you are talking about the Striker.

There's not only one Phoenix ever... It's more like 6 at least. We had 3 engee's on the sundy and couldn't keep up.

I have actually heard of some platoons assigning 200round extended clip chain machine guns to Phoenix missile duty when guarding a sundy on the front line of heavy standoffs where Phoenix spam is common, machine gun turrets have also been shooting down my missiles quite frequently now, people are learning to adapt and counter them. Well the ones not ragequiting to whine on the forums that is.

This ^

3 Phoenix heavys = instantly dead sunderer within 300m unless parked up against complete cover. No lock on warning, no troops detected, no fixing it back up.

Park sundy up against any rock = can't spot incoming enemies or the c4 dropping from the cliff above.

Park sundy 300m away from the cap point = enemy farms your infantry with all numbers being equal.

I'll let you in on a secret:
If you park behind something tall enough, there's no way a Phoenix can hit your sundy. The only way to reliably hit one behind a rock is to use the thing like a Javelin missile - shoot it up, then arc it back down. The range is near halved in that situation, and with a piece of cover that's the right size there's no way to get the missile to turn quickly enough anyway. The only way that a heavy can get a missile onto your location then is to expose themselves to sniper fire so that they don't have to use up range on the missile by banking it around cover.

6 people with Lancers will blow a sundy up so fast you won't even have time to react fast enough to start repairing the sundy, and they can hit you from so far away you won't even know what happened. This is starting to happen a lot.

It is what it is.... if you want to nerf the Phoenix, then all the ESL's should be nerfed.

From your sig, you have a character on Waterson. Should've seen what a few of with lancers were doing at Ti Alloys to sunderers and tanks (both TR and NC were coming at us) that tried to pester us. Many were quickly destroyed if the lancers got LoS on them. Those that survived quickly sought cover and didn't advance any further. It was glorious...until NC finally managed to out zerg us.

Phoenix is doing what it is intended now, rather than just raking in infantry kills. With the changes the lancer has, it's quite good now and is a decent sidegrade. It was garbage when it released, though. Seriously...expect to see the lancer QQ threads once this launcher becomes a little more mainstream.

The Phoenix sucks @ a tower fight... They can fly down against the platforms... A real advantage

Sundy's vs. Phoenix

Phoenix's lose... They need a neglecting sundy driver now or else the Engineer will make tons of repair points off of their fruitless efforts while sitting in their Lazyboy.

4. have 1-2 guys on overwatch shooting phoenix missiles heading towards sundy. Its much easier with ADS or optics