[Suggestion] Sunderer-based Artillery

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by ColonelChingles, Jun 23, 2014.

  1. ColonelChingles

    Wow! Yet another thread on adding artillery to the game? Really? We needed another one?

    So yea, there are probably too many artillery threads. But to be fair, I was adding things to the top of Sunderers before it was cool (like the NS-500 SAM and the NS-MEWSS). Can't blame me for keeping that up!

    First off, we have the NS-46 Launch Frame:


    Essentially lobs 300mm rockets in an area right before it. The downside is that it can't adjust for elevation (which is preset at 200m) or windage (you need to rotate the entire Sunderer to shift windage). The upside? Friggin 300mm rockets that perform well against infantry or tanks (depending on which rockets you take). If you can hit them.

    Inspiration comes from the WWII German Wurfrahmen 40 (meaning "Launchframe 40"), which was essentially the same idea using a halftrack instead of a Sunderer. The nickname comes from the Quechua name for "wolf", because "wurf" sounds a lot like "wolf"!


    Up next is the NS Sd.Aty 2/1, or "Anga" for short:


    Smaller 150mm rockets that deal less damage, but are a bit more precise and easier to aim. Elevation can be adjusted to allow for hitting targets from 100m to 300m, but like the NS-46 you need to rotate the entire Sunderer in order to adjust for windage. The Sunderer itself has been modified to fit the larger launcher and rockets, so as a result passenger capacity is reduced to 6 instead of 12.

    It takes after another German WWII artillery piece, the Sd.Kfz 4/1 "Panzerwerfer". The nickname is derived from the Nepali word for "organ", which the launcher resembles!

    • Up x 17
  2. Dracorean

    It's what I imagined! 8u
  3. TerminalT6

    Zerging these things sounds almost too easy. What would you say that their defenses are like?
  4. ColonelChingles

    Well, they are Sunderers, so they would have the Sunderer's relatively high hitpoints (4,000, as much as a MBT) and armor (45% resist to all damage). I think this could be modified, though, to keep the "glass cannon" feeling that artillery should have. Maybe reduce armor to 20% overall. The explanation could be that storing large amounts of high explosives makes the artillery Sunderers more vulnerable to incoming fire (internal magazine explosions or something).

    On the other hand none of them have the Sunderer's usual roof-mounted weapons. Plus all their artillery weapons have a minimum range (200m on the Atuc and 100m on the Anga). So it would be safe to say that apart from the crew, they are relatively defenseless against most direct ground threats (not to mention aircraft).

    It should also be noted that their maximum range is actually pretty short (200m on the Atuc and 300m on the Anga). Which is essentially Phoenix range. So if they're besieging a base, the furthest they could be is around the closest hill, which I would imagine might be within range of a counterattack.
    • Up x 1
  5. Azarga

    Undecided. Will they need to deploy before launching?
  6. Dracorean

    In a balance sense, games with artillery added in would have them deploy to fire, given that their main armament is powerful and has a range advantage. Based on the two variants above, the first one would probably need not to deploy however the second one might have to.

    However given that they can't turn the rocket pods, they would have to turn the whole vehicle for horizontal aim.
    • Up x 3
  7. InoxGecko

    Oh god yes, those 300mm rockets, that would be glorious. And I hope it would have some serious blast radius.

    I really wish something like this would be implemented in the game, however, the number of bases would have to be reduced, so we could use this things out in the open, and not just for shelling the **** out of spawn rooms.

    You could also make these things empire specific, for example give the NC those badass 300mm rockets with massive damage, give the TR the "Anga" with a high rate of fire large blast radius and low damage rockets useful for carpet bombing large open areas (ground based lolpods). Finally the Vanu, a charge-up sundy mounted particle beam, able to OHK any non MBT/Sundy vehicle

    And make this things only work with a dedicated ammo sundy next to it, make it a squad based weapon
    • Up x 3
  8. ColonelChingles

    With these two, probably not. Rockets are generally low-recoil weapons that don't need much deployment, unlike gun artillery that needs to be "braced" in order to handle the recoil. Even modern gun SPGs only need about 30 seconds to set up before they can shoot, so the time isn't very much.

    Additionally these are all relatively short-range artillery pieces, so they're much more intended for a "hit and run" approach. They unload, and before the enemy can launch a coordinated counterstrike with ESFs or Lightnings they're off to reposition.

    On the other hand though given their firing mechanics, they do have to spend quite some time aiming and firing. For the Atuc you have to park it within 190-210m of your target in order to get a chance to hit it, which takes some time to find. For both the Atuc and the Anga, you also have to move your entire Sunderer to the left or right in order to account for windage or changing target locations. Top it off with coordinating with a spotter, and practically each of the above artillery pieces is going to be sitting still for quite some time.

    I don't usually do faction-specific things (because of this forum's tendency towards balance complaints), but in theory those each of these artillery pieces could be made faction-specific.

    This is a good point. Like the NS-500 SAM I envisioned before, limited reloads would be a good thing (like how the Devs have tried to limit Liberator ammunition supplies). Maybe 4-8 salvos for these rocket artillery before rearming?
  9. patoman

    The hull could be used for a artillery tank, for people familiar with world of tanks and RL ww2 stuff its pretty common to have one hull be re-used for multiple roles.

    Though it shouldn't be able to carry troops being that the space inside would be used to store extra ammo and reloading stuff.

    Going with the idea, imagine the sunderer where the back had a massive cannon jutting upward.
    • Up x 1
  10. ColonelChingles

    Huh. Really? Because I thought you were asking for this...

    And none of those are remotely gun-based artillery. However... ;)


    Say hello to the NS T91 105mm Howitzer Motor Carriage! Also called the "Anteater". Now apart from the funny name, the Anteater is a funny vehicle. You'll notice that the Sunderer chassis has been modified into something resembling a halftrack. This was because in initial trials using the same chassis as the Anga, after the first shot the Sunderer's rear tires would pop from the recoil and the back end of the Sunderer would be driven into the ground. So the NS Engineers figured that they needed something stronger than tires and wider to absorb the recoil, and after borrowing some Prowler parts the new chassis for the Anteater was born.

    The 105mm howitzer is about equivalent to any of the 100mm Lightning cannons in damage and rate of fire. This mount can adjust elevation as well as windage. However, unlike the rocket artillery models, the Anteater needs to spend 20 seconds (less with upgrades) to deploy before it can fire.

    While the Atuc and Anga are designed for burst damage (unleashing a barrage of rockets at once), the Anteater is made for sustained bombardment. It's cannon is a bit more accurate than rocket artillery, and as an added benefit is slightly longer-ranged (200-400m, though obviously incapable of engaging infantry beyond 300m).

    Fun fact, according to the model filenames, the Liberator's Dalton was originally meant to be a 105mm cannon, not the 150mm cannon that it is now. This would put its damage closer to the Lightning than the Vanguard, but along the way someone switched a number. :confused:

    The Anteater was based on the American WWII T19 HMC, which also employed a 105mm cannon.


    It's also called the Anteater because with the funny cannon barrel it slightly resembles an anteater lying on its back.


    Huh... funny that you should mention that... :D
    • Up x 2
  11. Dracorean

    I feel like squealing with glee.
  12. ColonelChingles

    Next up is...


    The Combat Vehicle-31-5, also called the Anastasiya. Unlike other artillery pieces so far, the Anastasiya is primarily an anti-vehicle rocket system. Its rockets are much smaller and barely have any explosive radius (compared to say a 300mm rocket). For the most part the Type 31 rockets that it launches behave like any other dumbfire rocket.

    Until they get within 10m enemy vehicles that is. That's when the onboard Coyote software kicks in, and guides the rocket the rest of the way to the target. Each rocket does about as much damage as a Halberd, so if all 5 manage to hit...

    Fortunately the weakness of the Anastasiya is that it has a pretty large minimum range, so the solution for tanks is to charge at the artillery piece (which is how tanks should react to artillery anyways).

    Additionally, reload times are relatively long (compared to the Atuc or Anga). So tanks can also charge in between salvos.

    The Type 31 rockets do work against aircraft as well, though that would have to be a pretty silly pilot to sit still long enough to let an Anastasiya unload on it.

    If you haven't guessed, the Anastasiya (one of the few vehicles with a nickname longer than the official designation) is named after the BM-13-16 (M-13 rocket with 16 rocket rails) Katyusha MRLS from the Soviet side of WWII. The Katyusha got its nickname from a Russian song about a girl named Catherine, so Anastasiya is quite fitting!

    • Up x 3
  13. DeadliestMoon

    No, artillery should not be added. You may like being bombarded from out of nowhere, but I don't.
  14. ColonelChingles

    You know what, I sorta agre-
    *Gets blown up by a proximity mine around a corner*
    *Gets shelled by a Liberator from 300m out*
    *Gets exploded by MANA AV Turrets from render distance*
    *Gets pounded by a MAX around the corner*
    *Gets a rocket to the face*
    *Gets bombarded by a HE Prowler*
    *Gets hammered by a UBGL, Bulldog, and Fury all at once*

    Ack... well I mean I-
    *Gets ganked by an Infiltrator from behind*

    Uh, lemme get back to you about that after I'm done picking up the bits of my face on the walls.
    • Up x 5
  15. Dracorean

    If they ever plan to add artillery I think they should start small and see how that works out, mortars for the engineer to deploy can be a good start, short range, damage similar to a fury possibly, cant deploy in a structure or on top of one for obvious reasons, and can also be made into a low height barrier, similar with the anti-infantry turret but wider and lower for players to crouch behind.
  16. Tacom

    And more important, dont use a map control system, where you just click and shot.

    Make it so you have to adjust the gun in elevation and (azimuth) planes so observed fire is important. Welcome, FO!

    FO: Fire mission, over
    FD: Fire mission, out,
    FO: 2 tanks in the open, ICM, fire and adjust, over.
    FD: 2 tanks in the open, ICM, fire and adjust, out.
    FD: Shot, over
    • Up x 1
  17. WarmasterRaptor

    Artillery would be fine and give air an actual mission to hunt actively.

    Make them juicy targets for air and you won't be bothered too much about them.

    Should also be resources cost intensive though.
  18. RIctavius

    Cringles , I ******* love you man.
  19. RIctavius

    The resourcing sink is the upgrade and conversion kits to alter the Sundy, the 400 resource cost is still very heavy to invest.
    • Up x 2
  20. ColonelChingles

    I dunno, I think there's something unsexy about Sunderers.

    I mean how many times have you been in a 48+ fight, and there's just one Sunderer. And when that one Sunderer explodes, there's a decent chance that out of those 48+ guys, no one will bring another one.

    So I'm not too concerned with an overabundance of Sunderers. :D
    • Up x 1