[Suitably offensive title ;) ] Exploring 'Killcam' perspectives

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Phazaar, Mar 14, 2014.

  1. Phazaar

    Okay, so this thread may well end as quickly as others for not being inflammatory enough etc, but I was thinking about the schools of thought that the debate on killcams seems to come down to, and I think I've made a breakthrough.

    Full disclosure: I hate the killcam and think it should be obliterated, along with all you wretched crutching n00bs using it refined such that it doesn't smack of CoD EZmode 'you can do it to' bull**** have such rigid and blanket application.

    So here's my thought. The argument from my side comes in the whole (you've all heard it so I'll paraphrase equally offensively) get skill L2P n00bs WTF do you expect the game to play itself for you blah blah blah thing... The other side comes from the whole 'New players are leaving because they don't understand the game.' Tragically, even Higby himself came out with the go-to defence of new players that this leads to 'To those of you saying "This is going to screw up my ability to relentlessly farm noobs who don't know how the game works yet", you're right. Sorry, but that's the point.' It's actually akin to trolling really, as it's a complete misrepresentation of the point being made by both sides.

    What I think the debate actually comes down to, when we get past all the 'ya-boo' debate nonsense, is 'Do you think people should be punished for making mistakes?' Personally, I think that you should; Higby's point when you remove the vitriol is simply that new players shouldn't. I don't agree, and I thoroughly believe any game trying to take itself seriously should not pander to the kind of players who would leave over being punished for making a mistake.

    I guess my question is, do you agree that this is the paradigm actually being discussed or do you think there's more to it? This isn't one of those forumside 'I'm waiting for X answer so I can trump you with Y', I'd just like to know if my reduction rings true with people of either side of the debate or not?

    A secondary point that I would like to make whilst I think of it, is that the whole point about 'relentlessly farming noobs' largely falls apart when you watch good 'behind enemy lines videos' and realise that a good half of the players getting 'relentlessly farmed' are NOT new players. Just sayin'. I'll get back off the bandwagon now and let's discuss... ;)
    • Up x 4
  2. Cirevam

    I think I disagree slightly with SOE's idea of "new players are leaving because they don't know what killed them." They're right and wrong at the same time. New players leave not because they don't know what killed them at some point in time... rather, they leave because they cannot answer the question "what is that thing, how did it kill me, and what can I do to prevent that in the future?"

    It boils down to players not getting required information in-game and needing to rely on third-party sites. There are some topics about that explains this a little better. Here's a fantastic one I read this morning:

    Giving new players more information is the right thing to do. Giving them the location of their killer after they already died and not telling them how to avoid that in the future is straying off the path.
    • Up x 3
  3. Elrohur

    So much passion has spread around this Kill Map / Cam (and I participated).
    The thing that bothers me here is more the global direction PS2 is going to tend to if we keep up with reward for dying, doing a mistake.

    I'm glad to see new players and agree that the game can be pretty confusing at first. I remember back in the Beta about the Bio Lab. I had literally no idea how to get into it (it was andvari) and I just turn around, trying every jump on the towers to get there.
    The dying was part of learning the base mechanics of shooting and vehicle / classes capabilities. But being lost for 20min in a Bio Lab wasn't that fun.
    But the "random death" excuse for people not staying sounds pretty silly (sorry to say so) in a shooter providing the name and weapon of the killer.
    There are much more ways to help newbies, maybe more information IG. Had a class description / role in the player panel, some explanation about the bases and the importance of generators etc.
    Or why not credit 2000 Certs as a basis for a new player to spend on a few improvement right at the beginning. Or reward them with such after doing certain things (like mini quest : repair 1 turret, heal someone etc.)

    It's been discussed by Wrel, Koolaid and Youngblood there :


    Don't remember exactly when but they had neat idea for new comers.
    • Up x 1
  4. Phyr

    It's a kill map. MAP. MAP.
  5. Phazaar

    Inverted comma is inverted.

    Literal interpretations beware - here be dragons!
  6. BillBoBaggins

    I say bring CoD style kill cams then watch these hackers panic on the forums.
  7. Phyr

    Killcams don't stop hackers in COD, why would it here?
  8. BillBoBaggins

    You're right but it will certainly catch people out and with video evidence would weed out these hackers who have been cheating since day 1 and nothing has happened to them because it is so hard to catch a cheater without proof.
  9. Phyr

    They can hardly be bothered to ban obvious hackers, I doubt they'd waste time on subtle ones, even with video proof.
  10. BillBoBaggins

    It is the subtle ones that ruin this game,being clever when using their cheats to stay under the radar maybe only using walhack or no recoil hack.
    The obvious ones are......obvious and everyone knows and just laughs at them.
  11. Phazaar

    The subtle ones are just players that are better than you. Sorry buddy.

    In the few cases where this may not be the truth, it's largely irrelevant, as those players are STILL not playing as well as the best legit players, so all it amounts to is a potential (very slight) increase in average ability of the playerbase. Given that the game is not really challenging in any way for even a mediocre player like myself, I welcome this. For all I care, you can all /toggleon and I'll still be enjoying myself.

    It comes down to this... Do you join the 'n00b server' on BF for easy kills and a self esteem boost, or do you get on whichever top clan server has an opening and challenge yourself?

    EDIT: Now back on point...
  12. WyrdHarper

    Problem is the abrupt transition has changed it from "use contextual information to figure out where your enemy was in a rewarding and skill-based way" to "Here, use this exploitable, abuseable map that grinds salt in the wound for the random deaths."

    Also, does anyone know how it works with mines? Like if I place a tank mine on a road, and it kills someone twenty minutes later when I'm in another hex, do they have a map pointing thousands of meters away?
    • Up x 1
  13. Akeita

    Well, now I understand how TR/VS feel when Higby put on his sunglasses and go under the rebel flag. That quotes

    Just make me when to kill him so bad. Good job Higby, now I'll pull even more viper lightning, MAXes and pods to farm the hell out of those noobs you are trying to protect, you just gave me a reason to farm those nubs until they quit this game with your points.
    • Up x 2
  14. Phazaar

    Yes, and yes. In that order. Also in the other order...
    • Up x 1
  15. JudgeNu

    Come to matherson so we can farm you.
  16. Cirevam

    I've heard "yes" but I have not personally paid much attention to where the death screen treasure map is pointing. I got a sunderer kill with tank mines last night about 20 minutes after I placed them, so I assume that guy knew I was on the other side of Esamir. If he were a new player, would that information help prevent him from quitting the game? I doubt it.

    This reminds me of when Higby jokingly said that the VS only use OP items. The problem here is that farmers exist on all sides and suppressing the spawnrooms is a plausible and arguably valid tactic in certain situations.